leonardcohenforum.com

LaurieAK:

What is the definition of "black market"?

Dem

PS)Here http://tinyurl.com/mglql you can buy the
Stranger Music volume (i.e. the core of his whole work)
for just $4.50.

So what's the real "value" of his art?

Why does the money go to the person who possesses the book, not the author? For me, thats the real injustice-- somebody is making money off, or exploiting someone elses "work."

Lightning~ I agree. It falls into the "life is not fair" category, when these seconary markets make big profits...just like ticket sellers. I'm going to Hollywood Bowl in L.A. next month. Ticket sellers for the concert I'm attending are quadrupling the selling price of some seats on Ebay (and I'm sure other sites). The public will determine whether or not they will sell. Me? I don't "value" a concert seat that way I'll be listening to the crickets and Bocelli from up high in my cheap seat from Ticketmaster...

Dem~ A couple of years ago, I paid $125 for an obviously old, cut out piece of paper (from a book) that someone on ebay sold. On it was the hand written name: Sylvia Plath by her hand. Now, most folks wouldn't pay big bucks for a scrap of paper. I had been willing to go much higher if needed to get her signature. Money is just a means of bartering for what you want...It is merely an exchange for what means something to you (outside the necessities). You and some others don't seem to understand the concept of "value" being arbitrary as is money. It is all a personal exchange preference. Would I rather keep this 300$? Or exchange it for a hand signed book from Leonard Cohen that I REALLY VALUE above having that 300 in my bank? When folks make these personal decisions of value, it does show the heart of the buyer...at least when it comes to how they feel about Leonard. I'm done. If you want to be pissed off about the Harriet's of the world, I really do understand, but it is a legitimate transaction.

Linda~ Si. Thanks for untwisting my thoughts with your own well spoken input

I'm done.

Laurie

Hi there,

I'm sure Leonard got 'paid' for the books the Chapters sold. A certain number are put away for promotional purposes, of course. So, if someone else sells that book, it may be unethical, but we've all bought used books, haven't we? I think Leonard is getting paid as his publishing agreement sets out. Anything beyond that, is really beyond our control. However, he 'is' getting paid.

Linda.

PS: Oh, I didn't even see your post, Laurie. You must have snuck one in while I was ploddingly typing.

A very interesting discussion indeed. I'm just remembering Oscar Wilde's

Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

There are objects of value that no price whatsoever could amount to - and objects of astronomic prices with no value at all.

Just make your own choice...

Its really up to the individual what value he attaches to something. Its not for others to judge.
Except for a dead immediate family member's autograph I dont care at all for autographs. It doesnt mean a thing to me. Neither does $305.
On other hand if somebody will pay 10 grand for LC's signature I'd very likely sell it on ebay even if LC himself had given it to me (not likely though coz I'd never ask him for it). Money is a bartering device that gives or brings me the things that I really value which is personal to me and nobody else's business.
What her H Brown needs $305 for is her business and nobody else's. Going by her selling history she obviously supplements her income in this way. More power to her.


p.s. Kind of tangentially related is an interview I just read of Pete Seeger. He surprisingly states that he never listens to music and never has. He finds it boring and would rather chop wood or go hiking. The only time he listened to music was when he was working in the library of Congress cataloguing music and he did not enjoy it. Obviously chopping wood or hiking has more value to him than spending time listening to music.

Kush,

I'll be willing to bet from your posts that you'll be purchasing the Springsteen album of Pete Seeger covers. Just a Hunch.

I like Seeger and Springsteen both but I don't know how good the album will be. I enjoyed Bruce's Woody Guthrie covers. I did finally get Devils and Dust with the dvd extras on it. I enjoyed it.

I do think that it's kind of crappy that someone gets to sell the book for $300 but that's just the way things work. As people who bought it need more money, you'll see more of them on there.
I'm still super-pissed about getting out-bid in the last couple of minutes for an Irving Layton signed copy of "The Swinging Flesh."

Oh yeah, I'm back! I was having problems logging in and Jarkko graciously helped me get that fixed. So thanks for that.
I know you've all missed me so I won't waste time to ask.
Best Wishes,
Kevin©

Hi Kevin ~

Welcome back . So, what is it that makes the copyright process worthwhile? Your name, Kevin; or your sign off, Best Wishes, Kevin ?

I can tell you that, barring an exceptional aversion, you will love, make that LOVE, Bruce's new album . He kicked it off Live on the first weekend of Jazzfest, and it's absolutely down-home, foot-stompin', vintage high-energy Bruce, meaningfully overflowing-with-life, awesome .

Love,
Lizzy

Hey Lizzy,

Thanks for the welcome back.

I'm very interested to hear Bruce's album. I love all that old roots type music. (At least I think that's what they call it these days. Used to be folk).

My Mom has already told me that she's going to buy it, so I'll just copy it from hers.

The copyright is something that I use all of the time. Mainly in my emails. It could be seen as arrogance. As in, 'everything I type needs to be copyrighted.' But really what it is is my little homage to Jean Michel Basquiat. He was an artist and I love his stuff. He's my favorite of the 1900s. Anyway, he used to always tag his name with the copyright symbol and I stole the gimmick. I've done it for years. I'm sure that I've probably done it in some of my posts here. For Basquiat I think that it was sort of a combination of things; self-importance for sure, possibly a comment about the commercialization of pretty much everything in our culture, no one else had done that on their paintings, and also because he was quite a smart ass.

I don't know if I did it on the letter I sent you, but any time I sign my name I usually copyright it. Manufactured pretentiousness.

They had a Basquiat exhibition in Brooklyn last year and I almost made an impromptu trip out there to see it.

Glad you seemed to have enjoyed jazzfest.
Jermajesty would be a great name for a hermaphrodite.
Take care,
Kevin©

Dear LaurieAK
you didn't answer my question:

What is the definition of "black market"?



Dem (without ©)

Dear Dem~

First off, I'm really sorry to hear you are without a dictionary

Mine says:

Black market: noun. Illicit trade in goods; also a place where such trade is carried out. (Merriam Webster).

and since it is the 'defining' term:

Illicit: adjective. not permitted: unlawful. (M W)

Hope this helps.

regards,
Laurie

Dear Laurie,

I'm not only without a dictionary.
I am also illiterate and blind.

So, please don't pass me by!


Dem

Illicit trade in goods; also a place where such trade is carried out. (Merriam Webster).

Hm, a place like eBay for example?

Randall Stoner v. Ebay Inc., et al
Ebay must know, plaintiff asserts, that illicit recordings are being auctioned over its service.
http://www.phillipsnizer.com/library/ca ... case61.cfm


British Museum bids to stop illicit traders using eBay
http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041101/ ... 2007b.html

EBay’s tough talk on fraud doesn’t withstand scrutiny
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3078736/

Right. e-Bay is e-Bay and the LC site, is the LC site.

Linda.

thats funny..if you really want to talk about it the entire Traders corner on this forum is illegal, people on this forum are trading in illegal goods...its boogie street baby.

Dem you're full of shit.

I think you are allowed to trade concert recordings, just not buy and sell. No money involved, it's not illegal, just like among friend and family.