"As a Jew you should be particularly sensitive to LC's
subconscious" - Greg to YdF.
Greg if you wanted to used psycho war tools againts YdF, it was a good one, 'cause it is Carl Gustav Jung who gave to the world the theory of collective subconscious deep in the mind, with different ethnic or cultural subconscious nearer to the surface consciousness, and not Freud. Not at all. Moreover, Freud almost died about this fact that Jung did not follow his exact path and be his "spiritual son" as he wanted him to be, but continued by himself to disccover to inner land he had introduced him to. He never forgive. He was so harsh on Jung that the battle between the two had to get huge, enormous, out of proportion, for people in the same scientific field - that it is still brewing now.
But it is all another matter, here.
Ligthning, a POA is given in any situation when one wants to entitled another person to act for her/him.
The problem is not does he need it to or not, the money was his money. Dot.
Now, each part has a responsibility in that mess. Mr. Cohen, Ms. Lynch, the firm. I repeat : a POA is not an excuse for a good businessman not to have been taking care much better ot the capital of its client, they should have contacted the client directly when the capital was such in jeopardy. Even a child would tell you that. So. Please. OK?
artist v. con-artist(s): an unhappy battle brewing
-
Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
-
Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
No. Not OK. Agile did warn him. Before that skunk Kory got in on the act, Leonard was hypothesizing to Agile that Lynch had been intercepting his mail.So. Please. OK?
The question is what did Leonard know and when did he know it. If Agile was sending letters in January of 2004, why did it take Leonard until October of that year to sever his relationship with Lynch.
This letter seems to be in response to a reply Agile had received from the "Leonard" camp. It seems to me, Agile received a missive from Leonard/Lynch along the lines of, "Oh, don't worry about the withdrawals...I'm getting ready to put out another album. It's a stunner! I'll be rolling in it."In January 2004, Greenberg sent Cohen one of many letters warning that he was on course to go bust.
"I don't know much about your ability to create another album and sell it, so I can't speak to that," Greenberg wrote. "But I do know that at the rate funds are being withdrawn, you will run out in a few years... I URGE YOU TO CURB YOUR SPENDING. It is at a very dangerous level."
Anybody who embezzles eight million dollars will have no trouble intercepting mail and phone calls. I can just hear Lynch now, "You want to get in touch with Leonard...oh, he's in Mumbai. I'll give him a message. Oh, by the way Leonard needs another hundred grand."
YdF
-
Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
All right so Leonard wasn't feeling too good when he went up the mountain. (It was the demon drink). But he came down off that mountain...when was it....2000? And he's been trotting around the world ever since. He's had plenty of time to take the POA from Lynch.
The sticking issue isn't the power of attorney so much as the Majority Stockholder business. Who does that? Since when do you put an employee as the majority stockholder in your own darn corporation. The answer to that question would probably solve everything. Taxes anyone?
YdF
The sticking issue isn't the power of attorney so much as the Majority Stockholder business. Who does that? Since when do you put an employee as the majority stockholder in your own darn corporation. The answer to that question would probably solve everything. Taxes anyone?
YdF
-
Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
As for sticking it to the insurance company. Lots of luck. Say Agile agreed to take the fall and file a claim for mismangement of Cohen's funds. Why, the first thing the insurance company would do would be to start an investigation. They would discover that Lynch embezzled the money and that Agile and Cohen/Kory then colluded together in order to recoup the loss. Lynch wouldn't be the only one going to jail. And we'd all be asking the question, "What are the visiting hours?"
YdF
YdF
greg wrote:
Bob Dylan is the first name that comes
to my mind that contradicts your claim.
)
but it is exactly the opposite:
“As he matured Cohen began to display the characteristics
of manic-depressiveness. These symptoms usually first appear
around the age of eighteen or nineteen; cyclic and recurrent shifts
from manic creativity, sociability, and sexual activity on one hand,
and intense lassitude, withdrawal, and anxiety on the other.
In addition victims tend to be obsessive and extremely organized.
Cohen was, and is, absorbed by his writing and music, and is unusually tidy
and concerned with detail. His homes have all been spotless and almost bare
in their furnishings; his notebooks are all ordered by year, and his work habits
reflect his concern with discipline and precision. e does not consider a work
complete until he is satisfied with the lyric, the sound, or the word is absolutely right.
[…] Nonetheless his quest for perfection and order characterizes all of his actions: his work, his loves, and his search for spiritual satisfaction. "
Ira Nadel “Various Positions a life of Leonard Cohen» Vintage Canada edition p. 49-50
From what his biographer writes it is clear that Mr. Cohen clearly shows some of the typical
personality traits of the “anal (compulsive) character *”
and any psychoanalyst who can't see that
- had better turn over his couch,
and get a job as an expert tv commentator psychologist instead.
Now, according to Freud:
“…observations made during psychoanalysis led me to suspect that the constant co-existence in any one of the three character-traits of orderliness, parsimony and obstinacy indicated an intensification of the anal-erotic components in his (i.e. anal character”) sexual constitution, and that these modes of reaction, which were favored by his ego, had been established during the course of his development through the assimilation of his anal erotism…”
Sigmund Freud “On transformations of instinct as exemplified in anal erotism» p. 295
THE PENGUIN FREUD LIBRARY,VOL.7
ON SEXUALITY; THREE ESSAYS ON THE THEORY OF SEXUALITY AND OTHER WORKS
(See also his 1908 paper “Character and Anal Erotism” on the same volume p.208-215)
In other words, someone would expect Leonard to be at least as careful and pedantic (if not stingy) with his money as with all of his other actions: “his work, his loves, and his search for spiritual satisfaction” because clearly he doesn’t seem to have formed the opposite traits, viz. compulsive pliancy, untidiness etc.
Dem
*ANAL CHARACTER Type of CHARACTER neurosis inferred to be the result of FIXATION at the ANAL STAGE. The term is usually used to refer to REACTION-FORMATIONS against ANAL-EROTISM in particular to COMPULSIVE obstinacy, orderliness, and parsimony, but can refer to their opposites, viz. compulsive pliancy, untidiness, and generosity. See OBSESSIONAL NEUROSIS
-from “A Critical Dictionary of Psychoanalysis” by Charles Rycroft
http://www.bham.ac.uk/english/bibliogra ... efinition/
Not always so!“And, after all, artistic creativity,
and financial cupidity, ARE inversely proportional.
(wouldn't you admit?) “
Bob Dylan is the first name that comes
to my mind that contradicts your claim.
I am sorry greg (and sorry for intruding to your fields here Young Dr. Freud“As a psychoanalyst, you shouldn't see any inconsistency
between neatness-fetish, and financial indifference.
They are after all both simply alternate neurotic responses
to early toilet training. (Neatness gets mother's approval.
Sloppiness gets mother's attention.) “
)but it is exactly the opposite:
“As he matured Cohen began to display the characteristics
of manic-depressiveness. These symptoms usually first appear
around the age of eighteen or nineteen; cyclic and recurrent shifts
from manic creativity, sociability, and sexual activity on one hand,
and intense lassitude, withdrawal, and anxiety on the other.
In addition victims tend to be obsessive and extremely organized.
Cohen was, and is, absorbed by his writing and music, and is unusually tidy
and concerned with detail. His homes have all been spotless and almost bare
in their furnishings; his notebooks are all ordered by year, and his work habits
reflect his concern with discipline and precision. e does not consider a work
complete until he is satisfied with the lyric, the sound, or the word is absolutely right.
[…] Nonetheless his quest for perfection and order characterizes all of his actions: his work, his loves, and his search for spiritual satisfaction. "
Ira Nadel “Various Positions a life of Leonard Cohen» Vintage Canada edition p. 49-50
From what his biographer writes it is clear that Mr. Cohen clearly shows some of the typical
personality traits of the “anal (compulsive) character *”
and any psychoanalyst who can't see that
- had better turn over his couch,
and get a job as an expert tv commentator psychologist instead.
Now, according to Freud:
“…observations made during psychoanalysis led me to suspect that the constant co-existence in any one of the three character-traits of orderliness, parsimony and obstinacy indicated an intensification of the anal-erotic components in his (i.e. anal character”) sexual constitution, and that these modes of reaction, which were favored by his ego, had been established during the course of his development through the assimilation of his anal erotism…”
Sigmund Freud “On transformations of instinct as exemplified in anal erotism» p. 295
THE PENGUIN FREUD LIBRARY,VOL.7
ON SEXUALITY; THREE ESSAYS ON THE THEORY OF SEXUALITY AND OTHER WORKS
(See also his 1908 paper “Character and Anal Erotism” on the same volume p.208-215)
In other words, someone would expect Leonard to be at least as careful and pedantic (if not stingy) with his money as with all of his other actions: “his work, his loves, and his search for spiritual satisfaction” because clearly he doesn’t seem to have formed the opposite traits, viz. compulsive pliancy, untidiness etc.
Dem
*ANAL CHARACTER Type of CHARACTER neurosis inferred to be the result of FIXATION at the ANAL STAGE. The term is usually used to refer to REACTION-FORMATIONS against ANAL-EROTISM in particular to COMPULSIVE obstinacy, orderliness, and parsimony, but can refer to their opposites, viz. compulsive pliancy, untidiness, and generosity. See OBSESSIONAL NEUROSIS
-from “A Critical Dictionary of Psychoanalysis” by Charles Rycroft
http://www.bham.ac.uk/english/bibliogra ... efinition/
Young, you think you managed to figure this all out without even hearing Leonard's side of the story? You've even created some pithy dialogue to illustrate your analytical prowess. I wish I could say I'm impressed, but all you've done is write some fiction.Anybody who embezzles eight million dollars will have no trouble intercepting mail and phone calls. I can just hear Lynch now, "You want to get in touch with Leonard...oh, he's in Mumbai. I'll give him a message. Oh, by the way Leonard needs another hundred grand."
Marie
Speaking Cohen
Speaking Cohen
I see we got quite a mess here during the weekend. I read Mrs. Laura Bond's "article" on Friday when Dr. Freud linked it and wasn't much impressed. It tries to look serious and objective, written in very fashionable Financial Times style, but there are some moments when it fails.
First moment: when she, in "by the way" style, says that Kelley Lynch was engaged with Leonard, and that Kory is Anjani's former husband. Does this kind of writing need any comment?
Second moment: I died of laughing reading about Leonard's extravagant style. What, he needs milions to keep his LA home's walls in white colour? As far I heard, Kelley jumped into the pool when she was arested - I wondered, Jesus, how many money thas she get as Leonard's manage to have pool & house in Hollywood? What's most interesting, there's very funny moment when Bond says that Greenberg has its own career not smaller than Leonard's in its own terms, and his company has 550 millions $. And now, there's that "extravagant" Buddhist monk, spending all his money probably on rice and wine, with old house in Greece and mother's house in Montreal and his LA home and Jeep who wants "steal" him part of lost eight millions. Poor Mr. Greenberg. No more money for garden parties.
The article also deals with Zen and TM connection - doesn't mentioning that in very weekend when Agile's suit & PR was published, Greenberg gave some funny party in garden, with meditation. Now, here's the extravagant man who mixes money with what he thinks is spritual life, like many extravaganant Hollywood stars (you cannot not think of people without any genuine religious affect going around and shouting Dalai Lama, Scientology, like John Travolta, or Tom Cruise - Richard Gere at least tried to help Tibet).
Another moment is mentioning how fans on forum thinks that Mr. Greenberg is bad guy trying to steal money from Leonard. From the very beginning it's funny how Mr. Greenberg's behaviour is illogical and notorious. Who would think that he tries to steal money from Leonard, when Leonard lost his eight millions, and Mr. Greenberg has 550 millions of funds?!! Also, because of that it seems this "article" was intended to us here (succesfully, it seems
) - don't spy us, Mr. Greenberg.
Second, his personal attacks on Cohen's reputation are gone to far. I cannot belive that legal system can keep that going. The most strange fact is that from very beginning he claims that Cohen "disseminates false statements", "attacks his reputation" etc, the very things Mr. Greenberg, whom I will not call "Mr. Greenberg" anyone but "that Greenberg guy", does to Leonard.
In the end, maybe Mrs. Bond, Laura Bond could try to write her articles for herself, isnted of that Greenberg guy's PR team. I know you're reading this, guys.
First moment: when she, in "by the way" style, says that Kelley Lynch was engaged with Leonard, and that Kory is Anjani's former husband. Does this kind of writing need any comment?
Second moment: I died of laughing reading about Leonard's extravagant style. What, he needs milions to keep his LA home's walls in white colour? As far I heard, Kelley jumped into the pool when she was arested - I wondered, Jesus, how many money thas she get as Leonard's manage to have pool & house in Hollywood? What's most interesting, there's very funny moment when Bond says that Greenberg has its own career not smaller than Leonard's in its own terms, and his company has 550 millions $. And now, there's that "extravagant" Buddhist monk, spending all his money probably on rice and wine, with old house in Greece and mother's house in Montreal and his LA home and Jeep who wants "steal" him part of lost eight millions. Poor Mr. Greenberg. No more money for garden parties.
The article also deals with Zen and TM connection - doesn't mentioning that in very weekend when Agile's suit & PR was published, Greenberg gave some funny party in garden, with meditation. Now, here's the extravagant man who mixes money with what he thinks is spritual life, like many extravaganant Hollywood stars (you cannot not think of people without any genuine religious affect going around and shouting Dalai Lama, Scientology, like John Travolta, or Tom Cruise - Richard Gere at least tried to help Tibet).
Another moment is mentioning how fans on forum thinks that Mr. Greenberg is bad guy trying to steal money from Leonard. From the very beginning it's funny how Mr. Greenberg's behaviour is illogical and notorious. Who would think that he tries to steal money from Leonard, when Leonard lost his eight millions, and Mr. Greenberg has 550 millions of funds?!! Also, because of that it seems this "article" was intended to us here (succesfully, it seems
) - don't spy us, Mr. Greenberg.Second, his personal attacks on Cohen's reputation are gone to far. I cannot belive that legal system can keep that going. The most strange fact is that from very beginning he claims that Cohen "disseminates false statements", "attacks his reputation" etc, the very things Mr. Greenberg, whom I will not call "Mr. Greenberg" anyone but "that Greenberg guy", does to Leonard.
In the end, maybe Mrs. Bond, Laura Bond could try to write her articles for herself, isnted of that Greenberg guy's PR team. I know you're reading this, guys.
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
-
Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
Dear Marie,
No. I haven't heard Leonard's side of the story. And we will probably never hear Leonard's side of it. It's my predication that Leonard will try and get this case quietly dropped...If that is possible at this stage of the game. Leonard Cohen is not the type of man who would relish having the seamy details of his private and financial life exposed in a court case. But he and Kory should have thought about that before upping the ante with Agile.
My analytical prowess is no greater than anyone else.
This is the deal:
1. Money is missing.
2. Either Lynch took the money
3. Or Leonard is lying and he ran through the money
Now, if I choose to believe Leonard's explanation then the "fiction" I wrote is very probably what actually occured. Interception of mail, coverups, evasions, lies and red herrings all over the place.
I know these revelations have been painful to the true believers and that I am not as emotionaly invested in Leonard as some of you are. But, it's not as if I want Leonard to be broke. I don't want to find out that he may have things to hide (financially or otherwise). I don't want to find out he had any role in sicing a SWAT team onto Lynch. But I don't want to make excuses for him either.
He's been up to something.
YdF
No. I haven't heard Leonard's side of the story. And we will probably never hear Leonard's side of it. It's my predication that Leonard will try and get this case quietly dropped...If that is possible at this stage of the game. Leonard Cohen is not the type of man who would relish having the seamy details of his private and financial life exposed in a court case. But he and Kory should have thought about that before upping the ante with Agile.
My analytical prowess is no greater than anyone else.
This is the deal:
1. Money is missing.
2. Either Lynch took the money
3. Or Leonard is lying and he ran through the money
Now, if I choose to believe Leonard's explanation then the "fiction" I wrote is very probably what actually occured. Interception of mail, coverups, evasions, lies and red herrings all over the place.
I know these revelations have been painful to the true believers and that I am not as emotionaly invested in Leonard as some of you are. But, it's not as if I want Leonard to be broke. I don't want to find out that he may have things to hide (financially or otherwise). I don't want to find out he had any role in sicing a SWAT team onto Lynch. But I don't want to make excuses for him either.
He's been up to something.
YdF
Marie wrote:
As one of the persons who had the chance to visit the inside of the house
and spend some time there talking with his daughter Lorca and other guests
I can attest that it is as Ira Nadel describes Cohen’s houses
in his book “Various Positions”:
“spotless and almost bare in their furnishings”
Cohen has kept it almost as it was furnished when he bought it, that is
in the typical, old- fashioned style of an old house in a Greek island.
Actually it is more like a “museum”.
I saw some items there that I remembered only from my grandmother’s old house,
Αrtifacts that you don't find in any modern Greek house.
Nothing “lavish” there.
On the contrary.
And there are many rich people who really have
“lavish” houses on Hydra.
lightning wrote:
But with the Christian Orthodox monks one of the basic rules is
that the monk must be completely possessionless.
«Celibacy and humility» are the other two of the three “sine qua non” virtues of a monk.
Dem
That’s right.“Many of you saw Leonard's house on Hydra and in Montreal. Jarkko has pictures of his home in LA. Celebrity lifestyle? We know better.”
As one of the persons who had the chance to visit the inside of the house
and spend some time there talking with his daughter Lorca and other guests
I can attest that it is as Ira Nadel describes Cohen’s houses
in his book “Various Positions”:
“spotless and almost bare in their furnishings”
Cohen has kept it almost as it was furnished when he bought it, that is
in the typical, old- fashioned style of an old house in a Greek island.
Actually it is more like a “museum”.
I saw some items there that I remembered only from my grandmother’s old house,
Αrtifacts that you don't find in any modern Greek house.
Nothing “lavish” there.
On the contrary.
And there are many rich people who really have
“lavish” houses on Hydra.
lightning wrote:
I don’t know what are the rules for the Buddhist monks.“Did he have to disconnect from his money to go to the monastery, or did he just not want to be bothered with it?”
But with the Christian Orthodox monks one of the basic rules is
that the monk must be completely possessionless.
«Celibacy and humility» are the other two of the three “sine qua non” virtues of a monk.
Dem
-
Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
This appears to be inside dope. (Whose been talking out of school?)As far I heard, Kelley jumped into the pool when she was arested -
What was the charge? The SWAT team doesn't generally show up for white collar crime. If Leonard had anything to do with this or the Francis Farmer episode he should be ashamed of himself.
YdF
-
Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
How do you know this? As far as we know from the fact, I mean the fact and not some agile imagination of people involved in that thread, there is no proof that Mr. Cohen was warned.Young dr. Freud wrote:No. Not OK. Agile did warn him. (...)So. Please. OK?
Anyway. It seems that the freudian anal stage is king over here, with this obvious pleasure people have to play in sh....
Sorry but it smells too bad for me this game. I prefer let the experts do their job than to forge some more and more - and really weird (crasy) - bizarre scenarii only on the bases of gossips from one side or another - (nobody but Leonard knows what he his doing with his money, all the rest is speculation, not facts.)
-
Young dr. Freud
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:41 am
You will be proven wrong.It's my predication that Leonard will try and get this case quietly dropped...If that is possible at this stage of the game.
Perhaps you do not know the man as well as you think, and this might explain your inaccurate conclusions. No one wants their private and financial life revealed, but when falsely accused most of us will fight back.Leonard Cohen is not the type of man who would relish having the seamy details of his private and financial life exposed in a court case.
I am not so emotionally invested as to abandon my common sense. And I'm not gullible. I spent a career reading between the lines. I don't accept as fact what I read in two small town newspapers, especially when those newspapers happen to be from the home town of one of the litigants. Both of these "reporters" did little by way of research. They simple took dictation from Greenberg and reprinted it. Yes, they did their duty. They asked Leonard's side for comment. This should be a signal to all who read these pieces that only one-side is being represented.I know these revelations have been painful to the true believers and that I am not as emotionaly invested in Leonard as some of you are. But, it's not as if I want Leonard to be broke.
Again, I would just urge restraint in your judgments. These questions you ask and conclusions you reach are being framed by Greenberg and Agile. It is a magic show. They want you to look here, so you will avoid looking there where the real wrongdoing occurred.
Marie
Speaking Cohen
Speaking Cohen
Kelley's side
Followers of this thread will be interested in this letter I found on the net by Kelley Lynch dated April 9, 2005. Though she is a disciple of the "bandit guru" (ha ha) she seems far too spritual and reverent to stoop to the baseness she is being accused of.
The letter contains this quote:"I have nearly had my life destroyed recently, by a poet that was my friend for over 20 years-- and is trying to "ask" me to lie for his past tax evasion.
Note that she says "friend", not "lover" or "business partner."
Here's the link to the letter. Please open it all who visit here.
http://www.damtsig.org/articles/kelley.html
The letter contains this quote:"I have nearly had my life destroyed recently, by a poet that was my friend for over 20 years-- and is trying to "ask" me to lie for his past tax evasion.
Note that she says "friend", not "lover" or "business partner."
Here's the link to the letter. Please open it all who visit here.
http://www.damtsig.org/articles/kelley.html