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imaginary friend wrote:Casey, they are not signs from God, silly. They are signs from Leonard.

If I'm working for Leonard I can send him a timesheet. We have the gas receipts too. Thanks for letting me know...

Casey

Wow, this message has balooned since the first time I read it.

I liked the idea of an "interpretation business" better... (Seems there might be money in it after all, eventually, what with Leonard pulling the strings now).

Violet wrote:...and at the very least, a thorough gleaning of the Stooges would probably have most avoiding this particular spelling conflict, even many years later.. [this is a smiley moment, no doubt.. but as many know here, I try to keep such usage down]..

It was "As The World Turns" or "Let's Make A Deal" or "The Three Stooges". I was forced. "Hercules" was the worst... I must admit to watching "All My Children" a few times to avoid it.

...if that jet plane left marks that look like wispy clouds.. that in turn look like angels, maybe.. or a cross.. it's just a means of triggering ideas and imagery in the mind that may or may not get us to someplace interesting.. and that may or may not link up to some larger picture we're beginning to create.. they don't have to be "real" clouds for this to happen...

I'll give you that the wind's influence on a contrail, sculpting it into attention-getting imagery like wispy clouds, or angels to some...

And I'm not arguing with you that even a cross of straight contrails or yellow tape or loose tea is what you would have it be...

But remember the wind, Violet?

I'll try to stop opinionating anyway. These are your signs to interpret as you see fit. I just hope I don't leave out any important details.

Casey

Today's sign candidate is actually shown in that last photo posted yesterday, the sunset with the smoke cloud blowing southwards. Elizabeth looked up the fire causing the smoke this morning, by chance, and read me the page on it at UtahFireInfo.gov... Turns out it's called the Mill Flat Fire. Here is the page:

http://www.utahfireinfo.gov/fire/dixie_nf/mill_flat.htm

You'll notice this fire was started on July 25 by lightning, and, rather than put the fire out, the Forest Service has "used" the Mill Flat Fire as one of its "important tools" for wilderness areas where "other management tools are unavailable". Their objectives in using a fire thusly are:

1. [To] “Permit lightning caused fires to play, as nearly as possible, their natural ecological role within wilderness,” and
2. “Reduce, to an acceptable level, the risks and consequences of wildfire within wilderness or escaping from wilderness.”

So the Forest Service plays God too...

When we got in Silver around 4 PM today that smoke cloud had become the most prominent feature in the sky, except now the wind was blowing it eastward so that it covered the areas of Zion we had visited yesterday. From a barely visible wispy brown color it had grown into a huge grey boiling cloud.

So off we went up I-15. Here are some photos...

The smoke cloud taken from I-15:


Coming into New Harmony:


Fire danger sign, the sun, and the cloud:


The fire approaching houses:


This is a shot of the smoke cloud's shadow cast to the east, over the Kolob Canyons section of Zion National Park.
Yesterday we were up on top of this range watching Condors:


We got to New Harmony just before they closed the road so we got quite close to the fire. Fire crews were arriving from Cedar City, St. George, Hurricane, Santa Clara, etc... As we watched, people in the houses were packing the trunks of their cars, and helicopters and planes were swooping in to drop retardant and water.

I took a short video, remembering that you were in dial-up land. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRFluIQQ6M

Violet, amazingly enough the skies around the fire were full of Turkey Vultures, soaring on the thermals caused by the fire, literally riding the winds of destruction. There had to be hundreds of them... it was a sight to see. Carrion eating birds seem to be constant in these signs you've requested I inform you of.

Some of the of Turkey Vultures enjoying the thermal caused by the fire (or something):


More Turkey Vultures on the south side of the fire where it is creeping up the mountains:


So the guys and gals at the Forest Service decided to play God, and use the fire as a "tool" to clear the dead trees and underbrush without any effort on their part. But even so they got lazy, over-confident, they didn't see which way the wind was blowing, there were signs, but they did not know.

On the way out we passed several empty horse trailers coming in to evacuate the animals. A partial evacuation of New Harmony has been ordered tonight... The fire continues burning unnecessarily now.

No "On A Clear Day" by Sissel that I can find, but there's a "One Day": :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eTr6L-0ZoQ

Casey

.. wow.. I immediately thought of Apocalypse Now with this one.. and a poem of mine I thought I'd post.. I do know about this sort of forestry "management".. the trouble is, as I understand it (I haven't read the article yet, by the way), is that when this occurs naturally it happens often enough so that there isn't much brush to burn.. the problem of just letting this happen now, and rather arbitrarily as to when, is that there is a great deal of brush that has to burn.. so the concept might be reasonable, but the reality of doing this is obviously rife with problems.. (especially for those with houses lining the park)...

.. as to sign interpretation, I'll have to stew a bit... but this poem came to mind.. so.. might as well take a gander at it..

.. oh, hi I.F... I did think of you relative to Cate's "constraints".. but my mind was on trying to figure out a way to explain to Casey how my mind works.. not an easy thing, I'm afraid.. (that's why, Casey, I kept adjusting that last post I wrote.. I wasn't sure how clear I was being.. oh, and I was terribly tired yesterday, and so probably shouldn't have been trying to write anything quite so specific)..

.. okay, here's my rather apocalyptic poem.. although it's beautiful up here in upstate New York today.. not apocalyptic seeming at all, in fact.. instead, all seems rather calm and lovely..

.. oh, wait a minute.. something was afoot yesterday.. our little town had a lot of emergency vehicles blocking its exit off of Rte. 17.. we don't know though what it was.. but I thought of all that's been going on out your way, Casey.. maybe just looking for signs from God causes all of this (!).. (just kidding).. (I think)..



Apart from End’s Decadence


My illness starts here

down
and into myself

the poison

pressing against this life,

pressing
as if it could stop this breathing.

but nothing. just the
mind’s knowing
of some darkness coming.


Black hornets, busy
in the ramparts. not a tree
stands that isn’t
weeping; this
blackness in the air
overtaking

(the
romantic’s kiss, even)

as here this quiet, this
charred earth

is really all our grieving…


Spirits too are crying, whirling
in the afterlife, taking
us our dreaming -- in this, their final
warning…


Something is to blame. no
mere human
could arrange it. just
this mechanism; its soulless
obligation.


and still:

Serpents climb that ancient tree,
Knowledge brings its daggers,
Yet I am wont to sing to thee
Of love, ‘tis all that matters ––

‘Tis all.


v i o l e t, 2005/2008





.. late night edit.. found I left out a word.. not in the poem, though.. v.

...maybe just looking for signs from God causes all of this (!).. (just kidding).. (I think)..

Looking for signs from God planted a pecan tree in the desert for Turkey Vultures to stretch on. For example.

Another nice poem. I've read it through and through, I can see six or seven different meanings for the gist - and that's if I assume I know who the "I" is that sings of "love" therein. Leonard only knows how many meanings for the gist would exist otherwise.

Thanks for another stone. I'll add it to my library.

Casey

.. hi Casey.. thanks for your comments on the poem.. as to its gist.. so often I write rather unconsciously, so I guess to me the gist is the feeling the poem evokes.. although there are some ideas backing that up too, I suppose.. but how it all comes together, well, I agree.. Leonard only knows..

.. speaking of.. when I was growing up, there were three very important male figures in my life.. Dad.. God.. and Santa.. (not necessarily in that order).. now it seems I need to add Leonard.. only it kind of ruins the holy trinity effect.. gee.. I'd hate to have to drop God, but.. (only kidding, God.. oh, come on, now.. you know I'm a kidder.. you made me, after all..)..

.. well, it's too late to think (obviously).. so good night, Casey.. see whether tonight those whirling spirits take you your dreaming..
v i o l e t.. (flower)..

so often I write rather unconsciously...

I understand this, it's the same way I used to program, or write scripts. How they come together anymore I don't know. But for that type of thing you can swipe pieces from one and put it in another, commands remain the same and variables are transparent - while debugging at least. I don't expect we'll be able to communicate until we're swirling spirits ourselves.

I'll keep my eye out for Violet-like things. In Utah Sunday is God's day off (certain sects excepted), not much in the sky today except smoke from distant and not-so-distant fires.

Casey

Before I go to bed, here is Sunday's sunset as my camera decided to color it. I think that's California smoke affecting the sun tonight, as the Mill Flat Fire smoke is still drifting eastward.



Casey

.. this is quite a sunset, Casey.. I've heard that air pollution in general is responsible for some pretty spectacular sunsets..
.. I'm still upstate.. and still in something of a fog myself.. so nothing new this side of the continent, it seems.. from where I sit, at any rate..
'til something dawns on us, then.. v i o l e t..

I'll tell my camera you liked it. I know it appreciates what you've done here.

The sun was actually deep crimson, but the automatic settings (white balance or something) caused it to show up violet. The smoke clouds were so thick yesterday, I couldn't even see the lower 2/3 of the sun when I took that, but it showed up somehow in the picture. I need to take some time to figure out the manual settings so it will take what I see.

Today we had a (lovely) trip up to Bryce Canyon NP, to avoid the fire. We arrived as the sun was setting, however. Nothing like a sign I could see. Lots of smoke to the west still, and everywhere was hazy.











My mind works like a computer programmer's mind mostly, Violet. :-)

Casey

.. Casey, he's lovely.. the sweet thing.. so like my little forest friends upstate..

oh.. I just had to add this, since I was just watching this movie tonight.. a little New Yorker deer lore..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba7QvrreqU4
FULL SCREEN...

.. (I have a feeling I should probably be posting this on Colonial Suicide too.. Georges needs some real talkin' to I think)..


.. moving right along.. (sorry for the interruption).. Bryce Canyon is just stunning.. I've always wanted to go there.. I like those snugly horseys too.. oh, and the Indian with the spear.. astride the trouper/stop sign.. I like the 2 pics together somehow..

... anyway, it sounds like computer programming has enough abstractness to it to make it rather interesting.. and you seem to have an eye for photography too..

.. today, I came upon a small book called something like Knowing God.. and of course I had to open it.. it did bring up an issue I wanted to clarify.. something about reincarnation.. but, alas, I'm so so tired right now.. I've had brain fog for days it seems.. so.. it will have to wait..

.. so this is just to let you know my mind is.. well, at least trying to.. well.. deliver us.. something..

.. oh, and as you may have already surmised, I'm back in the city.. youtube no longer a problem.. (!)..


.. think I'll have some Sleepy Time tea.. raw honey.. and some lemon.. and beddie bye..
v i o l e t.. (flower)..

.. (oh, and I like your camera's color choices.. are you sure you want to mess with that?)..

I want to back up before you get too tired. I realize I've become somewhat of a boar.

First, I want to explain what I said here:

"Looking for signs from God planted a pecan tree in the desert for Turkey Vultures to stretch on."

"Looking for signs from God" is defined here (It's short, reading is optional, you can just check out the pictures): http://www.utahsdixie.com/hurricane.html

I was trying to agree with you. In that sense all this planetary mess has been caused by "looking for signs from God", but I don't think anybody would rather be still trying to communicate through cave drawings. I'm happy that "looking for signs from God" planted a pecan tree in the desert for Turkey Vultures to stretch on - where I could find them one morning to photograph and send to Violet.

After writing it, I could also hear the Biblical metaphor. Something made me remove the "I agree... " elaboration stuff. I mean, you should already know by now that I'm not a tree, even in this visit as I've said as much again.

Maybe I'm wrong, but your re-quoting of the soaring vultures photo back at me indicated to me that you may have heard what I said more metaphorically than I meant it. I can hear both meanings, but I wrote it.

But I am not a tree... The day I got the cloud-eye photo I was also allowed to take a grainy, far-away self-portrait up on Zion:



That's me.

Computer programming might be abstract, but more than anything it is precise and unforgiving. That's why I'm here, and that "ability" of sticking within the parameters applied by the authors is what makes it so I can hear what I hear of scripture metaphor.

I'm afraid I have to continue in another message as this editor window is jumping all over again (as I mentioned it does for some reason when the text begins scrolling. Damn programmers, anyway.)

(Not necessarily to you, Violet. I'm sorry if it offends.)

... I do know about this sort of forestry "management".. the trouble is, as I understand it (I haven't read the article yet, by the way), is that when this occurs naturally it happens often enough so that there isn't much brush to burn.. the problem of just letting this happen now, and rather arbitrarily as to when, is that there is a great deal of brush that has to burn.. so the concept might be reasonable, but the reality of doing this is obviously rife with problems.. (especially for those with houses lining the park)...

Here is a follow-up to the Mill Flat Fire at New Harmony, please read if you can find the time: http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... /909010307

Elizabeth and I had a small house built after 9/11 by the kind of divine fire I was prepared for by that event, and all events throughout my life. This is that divine fire that has been prepared by a great many people from a great many lands over a great many centuries, but largely withheld up to now.

The type of "Fire management" you describe above, wielding fire I was not prepared for, destroyed our house after it was built. Fortunately though, Elizabeth was insured and God rebuilt our house, so here I am once more. But it will never be the same until.

Houses lining parks around the world are being burned and threatened with burning by that "Fire management" they're not prepared for and have been promised they will not undergo.

Elizabeth and I are your boots on the ground, Field Commander, planted in one of God's large walled cities. We see God's Servants suffering, God's boots on the ground. The suffering of those in the air may not be so noticable?

In the name of Jesus, all who might read this, please release the divine fire prepared from the foundation of the world. Knowledge since 9/11 holds no daggers, the wind saw that it did not hurt me, the wind will protect those whose foundations are being swept out from under them now.

A song from God's Servant Sissel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoX9AaOmbH8

Casey

(I'll look at your poem again now Violet... Next message...)

Apart from End’s Decadence


My illness starts here

down
and into myself

the poison

pressing against this life,

pressing
as if it could stop this breathing.

but nothing. just the
mind’s knowing
of some darkness coming.

I can take this section and empathize because it's a recognizable point I reached myself.

Black hornets, busy
in the ramparts. not a tree
stands that isn’t
weeping; this
blackness in the air
overtaking

(the
romantic’s kiss, even)

as here this quiet, this
charred earth

is really all our grieving…

What I hear here I wasn't really paying attention to until after I'd reached the point above.

At that point, after hearing "EVERYTHING", sort of recognizing the state everybody else was in was a "But stop, don't you see, don't you see?" kind of "proof" to me that it was all part of a grand design.

Spirits too are crying, whirling
in the afterlife, taking
us our dreaming -- in this, their final
warning…

I hear this as a reference to God - to whom all of information goes somehow but I couldn't say how. I am not privy to high level science.

Something is to blame. no
mere human
could arrange it. just
this mechanism; its soulless
obligation.

I can't grasp this, especially in context. I'm the one who has a car named Dorothy and mini-pickup named Silver (not to mention a bike named Sapphire). Behind every mechanism is a soul - an operator or programmer.

and still:

Serpents climb that ancient tree,
Knowledge brings its daggers,
Yet I am wont to sing to thee
Of love, ‘tis all that matters ––

‘Tis all.

Is human love, as we were taught it, possible without reason? In the beginning was reason, nothing was created without it. Can you sing to me of reason, which it could be said created love?

A wonderful poem, but I can't resolve the parts in a gist that remains cohesive at the moment.

Thank you for sharing it, Violet... :-)

Casey

Casey Butler wrote:

Apart from End’s Decadence


My illness starts here

down
and into myself

the poison

pressing against this life,

pressing
as if it could stop this breathing.

but nothing. just the
mind’s knowing
of some darkness coming.

I can take this section and empathize because it's a recognizable point I reached myself.

Black hornets, busy
in the ramparts. not a tree
stands that isn’t
weeping; this
blackness in the air
overtaking

(the
romantic’s kiss, even)

as here this quiet, this
charred earth

is really all our grieving…

What I hear here I wasn't really paying attention to until after I'd reached the point above.

At that point, after hearing "EVERYTHING", sort of recognizing the state everybody else was in was a "But stop, don't you see, don't you see?" kind of "proof" to me that it was all part of a grand design.

Spirits too are crying, whirling
in the afterlife, taking
us our dreaming -- in this, their final
warning…

I hear this as a reference to God - to whom all of information goes somehow but I couldn't say how. I am not privy to high level science.

Something is to blame. no
mere human
could arrange it. just
this mechanism; its soulless
obligation.

I can't grasp this, especially in context. I'm the one who has a car named Dorothy and mini-pickup named Silver (not to mention a bike named Sapphire). Behind every mechanism is a soul - an operator or programmer.

and still:

Serpents climb that ancient tree,
Knowledge brings its daggers,
Yet I am wont to sing to thee
Of love, ‘tis all that matters ––

‘Tis all.

Is human love, as we were taught it, possible without reason? In the beginning was reason, nothing was created without it. Can you sing to me of reason, which it could be said created love?

A wonderful poem, but I can't resolve the parts in a gist that remains cohesive at the moment.

Thank you for sharing it, Violet...

Casey

Casey.. thanks so much for this... it seldom happens.. So, you end here on a profound note it seems.. I read something about this.. something about love being the servant to knowledge.. not the other way around.. Perhaps we are here to further God's self knowledge.. with each of us providing a unique experience, which furthers God's knowledge of "itself" (don't know what to call God, actually, pronoun wise).. that is, if we are, indeed, each a part of God.. I'd like to dig up this material again, it was far more profound sounding.. and surprising, as don't we all suppose (well, you're an exception here) that love itself has the upper hand?.. not knowledge?.. the latter sounds a bit cold.. a bit.. academic.. but then, I'm something of a romantic, I guess.. Still, this comes back to me frequently.. don't forget, Violet (I say to myself, only that's not really my name).. don't forget to use your noggin'.. that's what it's there for.. existence is not just all warm and fuzzy love stuff.. you've got to exercise that mind of yours.. and actually, Casey, I'm due for a round of knowledge gleaning, as it's been a while.. and I'm getting lazy I think in that regard.. there's this "taking in" period, for an artist, that is.. then the gestation period.. and then the throw up period (that's sort of a joke.. but gestation is equally disgusting sounding).. no, then the output.. whatever that may be.. a poem.. a song.. a painting.. or a film..

.. hmm.. if, as Leonard and I'm sure many others have said.. "love chooses me".. then where is the mind in this?.. are we weak to allow love to choose us, as it were?.. or are you and I wrong about the order of things?.. OR.. in being truly "known".. aren't we being truly loved?.. and yet, who is truly known?.. I spoke of the true guru once on a thread of mine.. you commented, I recall.. (a long time ago now, Casey).. anyway, in the guru's truly "seeing" one, he/she who is so seen (and ready to be so seen) finds him/herself collapsing in tears.. it is an overwhelming human experience to be so known.. Can we even distinguish this from love?.. Maybe we are just so darn used to being loved incorrectly: I love you, but I don't understand you.. I don't see you.. Love without understanding.. may not be love at all.. And yet, we're all human, we have blind spots blocking a comprehensive understanding.. but still.. we love.. don't we??.. Is love a sort of substance?.. an energy.. in and of itself?.. is it only valuable if it's used wisely?.. used unwisely.. is it harmful?.. which brings us back to the importance of understanding.. reason, as you called it.. which is part of understanding*..

.. let's see.. what was that song?.. What the world needs now.. is understanding, sweet understanding..

.. no, really it's love, sweet love.. and that works much better, poetically speaking.. so I guess we in the poetry business need beware the powerful persuasion of rhyme and meter.. they may not lead to Truth.. (alas).. but they sure make things sound nice..

And.. I guess I'm being terribly stubborn in insisting that love "'tis all" in this poem.. it can feel that way though.. we drink it up, like life's elixir.. so it can certainly feel that way.. and anyway, the sentiment knows of its own sentimentality in the poem, I think.. it's what the "I" of the poem wants.. not what "is".. what "is" seems to have more to do with that serpent.. and those daggers..

* I wanted to add here that understanding must in some sense encompass love -- no?.. so that.. if understanding is the boat, as it were.. wouldn't love be the rudder?.. aren't they inseparable, in a sense.. even if the boat of knowledge leads the way?.. or else, understanding without love would no doubt be a cold cold thing (or even something lost.. like a boat without a rudder).. a universe without feeling.. the creative impulse without joy.. of course, there's also the opposite of love.. hate.. which excludes understanding.. though is typically rife with feeling.. so there's a lot of qualifying to do here, it seems.. (as usual)..


Anyway, to return to the, uh, thesis here.. If in the beginning there was true understanding.. would we be in the mess we're in?.. or is this mess all part of the arduousness of learning.. And if we are being deceived by forces just beyond our comprehension?.. (this brings me to your next comment)..

Something is to blame. no
mere human
could arrange it. just
this mechanism; its soulless
obligation.

I can't grasp this, especially in context. I'm the one who has a car named Dorothy and mini-pickup named Silver (not to mention a bike named Sapphire). Behind every mechanism is a soul - an operator or programmer.

Actually.. interestingly enough.. there may be an operator or a programmer, but according to some of the more "out there" material I've read, there may well be a "soulless" element at work here on this old earth.. but even if this were not the case, there is something about systems that can seem to be beyond an individual's power to have control over things.. In the sense you are speaking of systems, we can talk about a computer program, and know that a person or persons put that program together.. but in this other sense.. I guess a wider, more abstract sense.. the world can seem to be devised of systems that we have very little power over.. so.. that in part is what I was getting at..


.. Okay, Casey.. I don't know if my comments lend more overall "gist" to the poem for you, but it's a start maybe..

I will consider your other posts.. but now on to dinner..
v i o l e t.. (tired now).. f l o w e r ...


.. edits.. I'm not really changing much.. just tweaking a bit.. trying to be clearer..