Muffins or War

This is for your own works!!!

Muffins (lightly toasted with perhaps a little strawberry jelly) or a *just* War with not very many casulaties

I prefer a Just war
15
21%
I prefer just muffins
57
79%
 
Total votes: 72
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Ali
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Post by Ali »

Thanks Byron, that was a fascinating link into Her Patronage :?
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

She was also the Patron Saint for mental illness.
That's enough right there. Seriously.
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Byron
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Post by Byron »

As Barry Humphreys, the actor described her, she is his Patron Saint, and it seemed only fitting that she also be GWB's Patron Saint.

Lizzie used the current, enlightened form of description, but for over a thousand years,

St Dymphna was acknowledged by everyone as The Patron Saint of the Mad.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Byron
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Post by Byron »

Is there anything in the news about a change of government in venezuela?

I caught a snippet of someone on the radio saying that evidence has emerged about a certain administration wanting to ensure their control of the oil fields in Venezuela.

I am not looking to pin yet another tail on the donkey, but it sounds like the sort of crackpot idea we've come to expect from Goofy and the hatters' tea party crowd.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Post by lizzytysh »

I did hear Venezuela mentioned, but the exact context I don't recall; only that my thought at the time was, "Oh, no. Not South America, now :cry: ."

The U.S. government has their hands full with China. They're describing the emerging 'facing off' as a dynamic far greater than it was with the U.S.S.R. Mention is being made of how the U.S. is condemning their tactics, ones the U.S. has been using right along to build and maintain its power. Imagine that :shock: . :roll:

~ Lizzy
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Byron
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Post by Byron »

There is something going on. Chavez obviously wants to cling on to power and uses the threat from outside his country to keep his people fearful and behind him. ALL regimes use that ploy. New York Times has a report in yesterday. The references to the BBC interview, and also the pressure put on Israel, at the end of the piece, lend some credence to murkyness behind the scenes.



Chavez Warns if U.S. Invades, Oil Goes Up

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: October 20, 2005

Filed at 8:48 p.m. ET

PARIS (AP) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Thursday that his government is preparing for a possible U.S. invasion and he warned that such ''aggression'' would send gasoline in the United States prices soaring higher. The U.S. government repeated that it is not planning any such thing.

Chavez, a vocal critic of ''imperialism'' and the Bush administration, said he was not against the American people -- just the current government.

''We are sure that it will be very difficult for the United States to attack Venezuela,'' Chavez said. He said his country has eight oil refineries and 14,000 gasoline stations in the United States.

''If the United States tried to attack Venezuela by a direct invasion, forget the oil,'' he said during a two-hour news conference beamed live to Venezuela. ''Everyday, we send 1.5 million barrels to the United States.''

The barrel price of crude oil could hit $150 following a U.S. attack, Chavez said. Currently New York light sweet crude oil trades around $60 a barrel.

''That's why Pat Robertson, the spiritual adviser of Mr. Bush, is calling for my assassination -- that would be much cheaper than an invasion,'' Chavez said.

Robertson, the U.S. religious broadcaster, said in August that Chavez should be killed, then later apologized.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Chavez's suspicions were unfounded.

''I've stated many times before, the United States is prepared to work with any government in the region: left of center, center, right of center. Our issue is with states that don't govern in a democratic manner,'' McCormack said.

The Venezuelan leader used his news conference to trumpet what he called his ''alternative'' vision of a world that works for the poor rather than corporations seeking profits.

Chavez reiterated longtime claims that the United States finances his opponents, seeks his ouster and sabotages efforts to move his country forward.

''Venezuela is used to defending itself ... and fighting imperialism,'' Chavez said, speaking in Spanish with a French translator.

''We must be ready for an aggression,'' said Chavez, who previously said Venezuela is organizing an expanded military reserve and civilian defense units.

In an interview with British Broadcasting Corp. radio aired earlier Thursday, Chavez said he had evidence to prove the U.S. government was planning an invasion.

Chavez said he believed the reason Washington was plotting an invasion was to take control of Venezuela's oil fields.

Meanwhile, Israel canceled a lucrative deal to upgrade Venezuelan warplanes under American pressure, Israel TV reported Thursday.

The report said Israel was to install its own systems in U.S.-made F-16 fighters for the Venezuelan air force, but the U.S. government forced Israel to call off the deal. No dollar figure for the deal was given.

Israeli Defense Ministry officials were not immediately available for comment.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Post by lizzytysh »

The U.S. government repeated that it is not planning any such thing.

C-l-a-a-a-a-a-n-g, c-l-a-a-a-a-a-n-g, c-l-a-a-a-a-a-a-n-g. [Yeah, I know they're supposed to just t-i-i-i-i-n-k-l-l-l-e.]
Just another Bushism Blast from the Past.

Plenty more thoughts on all this, but no time. I can see I got the bottom-line jist from the report I heard in passing.

~ Lizzy
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Post by mickey_one »

this is such a neglected thread, hardly any views at all.
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Post by lizzytysh »

We trusted you'd be along eventually to fix that, Mickey. At last ~ a view cometh.

~ Lizzy
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Post by lizzytysh »

OK ~ Here's a view. This is a copy-and-paste of an e-mail we all got in our office this morning; suggested, approved, and sent by our two, head honchos here, after receiving it from whoever originally commented within it:
RED FRIDAYS

Very soon, you will see a great many people wearing Red every Friday. The
reason?

Americans who support our troops used to be called the "silent majority".
We are no longer silent, and are voicing our love for God, country and
home in record breaking numbers.
We are not organized, boisterous or over-bearing.
We get no liberal media coverage on TV, to reflect our message or our
opinions. Many Americans, like you, me and all our friends, simply want to
recognize that the vast majority of America supports our troops.

Our idea of showing solidarity and support for our troops with dignity and
respect starts this Friday - and continues each and every Friday until the
troops all come home, sending a deafening message that..

Every red-blooded American who supports our men and women afar, will wear
something red.

By word of mouth, press, TV -- let's make the United States on every
Friday a sea of red much like a homecoming football game in the bleachers.

If every one of us who loves this country will share this with
acquaintances, co-workers, friends, and family.
It will not be long before the USA is covered in RED and it will let our
troops know the once "silent" majority is on their side more than ever,
certainly more than the media lets on.


The first thing a soldier says when asked "What can we do to make things
better for you?" is...We need your support and your prayers.

Let's get the word out and lead with class and dignity, by example; and
wear something red every Friday.

I sent this out to everyone on my email list. Will you?

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE.

THEIR BLOOD RUNS RED-WEAR RED!

MOST OF ALL - GOD BLESS AMERICA
Now, this appears to be intentionally written in a non-commital, middle-of-the-road style, regarding the war itself. The last line ~ however, gives cause for concern on that. The good thing is that they're talking about bringing the troops home [translation: Get Out of Irag!], so there's still hope for it, from my perspective ~ unless it's to suggest that "G~d is on our side. Beat them in Iraq ~ then bring the troops home." Reference to 'the silent majority' gives some kind of clue, though not positive which direction. "Silent majority" as in the pro-war folks not being adequately represented by that 'bad' liberal press ~ the silent 'majority' that are anti-abortion?

Because the upper echelons, outside of this office, at election times, have sent to the entire sh'bang, pro-Republican position/party/politician statements and info, I have my questions about this. I don't like my workplace 'telling' me how I should vote; how I feel about the war; or what my religious beliefs should be [I won't even get started on the 'religious' e-mails that come around :roll: ].

So, my response to the two, top folks here [where this was sent on from] was sent at 9:10 AM. It's now 1:56 PM, with no answer, yet. Think I'll get one?:

"Can this be for SUPPORTING the TROOPS, but NOT the WAR!?!"

As I know these two people to be pro-Bush and pro-his reasons :roll: for going to war :evil: , I doubt I will. But, I may. I haven't been called into anyone's office for 'counseling,' yet :wink: . I don't make a very good bureaucrat. I'll let you know if/when I get a response, and what it was. Should be interesting if I do. However, I sense they sense my feeling about the appropriateness of this, if it's pro-war/pro-Bush, under the 'distillation' of its being pro-troops. The magnetized, "Support Our Troops" 'bumper stickers' that go on cars, are primarily seen as being placed there by 'far-right' supporters of Bush, the war, and the troops.

Lack of an answer will be my biggest clue :idea: :roll: .

~ Lizzy
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Byron
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Post by Byron »

"intentionally written in a non-commital, middle-of-the-road style"

I'm sorry lizzie, but this cut and pasted piece you have given to us, is far, far, from the middle of my road lizzie. I am not questioning you about its content, merely the tone which oozes from the words.
I have not seen anything so strong in years.
I fear that those of you who have to endure daily sound bites from GWB etc., may have had your senses dulled by the amount of 'stuff' and 'rubbish' you have to put up with.

It actually calls upon a nation to be patriotic. I have no problem with that. We are all called upon at times to support our country.

What I find disturbing is the method it wants people to employ.

We regularly have news broadcasts showing footage of Palestinian men wearing headbands to signify their loyalty to their cause.

You are now being asked to wear something red to signify your loyalty to your cause. I am being deliberately 'you and them' in this discussion and not levelling anything at lizzie. OK?

So we will have two teams wearing tokens in support of a war, with both teams claiming G-d on their side.

And what happens to people who don't wear red on Fridays?

The nearest colour example, I can remember at the moment, is the brown shirts and black shirts of Hitler's supporters.

You're being asked to support the 'grunts' who probably joined the army to get a decently paid job to support their families. The fact that they are in Iraq is another matter for discussion altogether.

What's next? White feathers to be handed out by ladies to young men who won't join up?

This stinks.

Elizabeth, many thanks for bringing it to us. The situation over there is worse than some of us thought it could ever get.

They used to call this sort of thing, emotional blackmail through patriotism.

Have you seen the latest figures for the dropping of support for GWB and this war? I'll leave it to one who lives over there to publish it.

How long before someone starts to wave a flag in our faces? Like last time!

Too many flags have been wrapped and handed to too many grieving mothers.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Post by lizzytysh »

Yes, Bryon ~ I agree with you. Completely. I don't take what you're saying personally [believe me].

Even though there is an ongoing deluge of this kind of thing [at one time or another ~ not daily ~ but still ongoing, and still deluge], I do note the key words/phrases that constitute the blackmail via 'patriotism.' You're right that one can become desensitized to it, but if I were really desensitized, I wouldn't bring it here.

I do feel it's 'middle of the road'ly worded ~ with the specific, manipulative intent to dupe those, who may have been desensitized, into wearing colours [like gangs do, after all!] that may not be conveying the message they would have really liked to have been conveyed. The reference of "until they all come home" [or whatever the exact wording is] doesn't specify when ~ now or after the occupation is over. The word I heard yesterday on NPR was that now it's being estimated that the U.S. will be there for another 10 years. [We're surprized, aren't we!?!] If this does 'take hold,' the media will show hundreds/thousands/whatever wearing their 'support-red' uniform.

Yes ~ you're right. When I read it, I felt P-R-E-S-S-U-R-E. I'll let you know what happens to those who don't wear it. Nearly all day has been sufficient for receiving a response, as they're both still here. Since my question [in response to something else], I got a terse, written reply from the head honcho [female]. When I saw her [and am normally greeted by smiles and friendly hellos and inquiries as to how I'm doing, including initiated-conversation by her], I got only a blank, expressionless look. It would appear that my own message was equally conveyed [the caps and punctuation being included in mine].

You're right that it's very bad. This is also not the first thing of this nature, where "your private life will suddenly explode" because "the rich have got their [grubby mitts] in the bedrooms of the poor." Here, this level of message is considered normal and a 'great idea!'. Believe me when I say that many don't look at the words themselves, in the same way I do. There are many here who would see absolutely nothing wrong or unusual with these words, or the message. I'll let you know how many [and out of how many] show up on Friday wearing red, and what the reasons given are, by those who don't. I am in a MAJOR minority in my political views in this office. Believe me on that, too.

Yes ~ I have definitely heard the stats on the massively-declining support for GWB, foremost in that being his handling of the Iraq situation. Hence, here come the redcoats! Like waving a red cape in front of a bull ~ is that part of the message?

I'm glad you're able to appreciate its implications. [Like I should be surprized?]

~ Lizzy
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Post by Byron »

National news headline on this evening's late programme is telling us that the number of US troops dead since the 'victory' was declared has reached 2,000.
TV footage of your Senate/Congress having a minute's silence.
A piece to camera by a lady called Cindy ........ who lost her son a while ago.
I'm sure the families of the 2,000 will be gratified to learn that all of those lives merited a full minute's silence. Puke.........

How much do 2,000 furled flags cost?

Too friggin much!


And we know that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. The link was made to serve another ill-conceived purpose.

If your people want to wear red, let them. It's the colour for embarrasment!
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Post by lizzytysh »

It's the colour for embarrasment!
I wish those responsible felt it. Regret, Remorse, and Reform would be preferable, though.
_________________

Yes, the 2000 figure is being pronounced about these parts, too. Oooooo ~ what are the mathematics on that ~ 1/2000th of a minute per person. Even the Twin Towers victims got each of their names read, and that number was even greater. Totally disconnected and unrelated, of course.
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Post by lizzytysh »

Well, no answer from either ~ and no addressing the idea in the staff meeting, either. So, I'm guessing my question was interpreted as a political statement [which, of course, it is :roll: ], rather than a question. Or, they're not quite certain how to best answer it in print[?]. Since one of the two is already very well aware of my stance and feelings on this war and occupation, I'm guessing the other is well aware now, too.

Enough asked. Enough said. No red.

~ Lizzy
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