leonardcohenforum.com

Emoticon guy, what's his name? Greg. Don't laugh too much, and you Tom (Sakic) and YdF also about "people" : the big managers of big capitalist societies (please read "inc.") are reading Marx (Carl, not Groucho, again) to improve new theories of management. Indeed some of them begin to understand that to kill people is to kill economy, as the second can not be without the firts. It is about time, but time is an illusion according to some, and according to me, better late than never.

Dem is it true that you are such a gorgeous guy? Anyway. Do you know before letting your obvious disgust of US loose that first, this story of being under sea level is not totally exact. The land is 8 feet over. Not much than being under but... Second, the problem that happened was discussed for as long as at least 2 years, and founds had been asked to prevent the destruction of this part of the land.

They state never provided what was asked.

Why because they don't really care.

And not, oh no! NOT because they do not have the power to do so.

Byron wrote:

"He has just reported from the devastated area and said that of all the crises he has covered in the third world, this is the worst, for the abysmal response and absolute mayhem, that he has ever seen. He said that it is far worse than anything he has covered in the past, in the way that nothing has yet been done at the speed and urgency that he has seen in much poorer countries."

Worse than the tsunami in Asia?

I have listened to reporters describing police cars speeding through town, with guns pointing out of their windows as they go in search of criminals, but driving past hordes of sick, dying, destitute refugees.

This is an image coming straight from Bagdad

The american people will emerge from this with dignity and perseverence, despite the 'efforts' of their political poseurs.

And vote again for Bush in the next elections?

Oh, right I forgot!
He can't ran for a third time (thank a God!)

Dem

YdF ~

I have ~ and exercise ~ the ability to know when I've gone 'off the wall' and correct it. You may want to try the exercise yourself sometime.

In fact, I listen to reason very well ~ and have changed my position, accordingly, when appropriate. All of our personal views and perspectives are personal. That's the nature of life and reality. I am not locked into many positions.

You, perhaps, know many who 'go with the winds' ~ one, objective article by one, objective person does not represent the whole of society or generally ingrained attitudes for many, including our next Supreme Court male.

"Pops into my head"? Well, YdF ~ I see you do little more than leech onto what others [including me] thoughtfully write [whether or not you agree with its content] and do your best to be clever and glib in your responses. There's more content and substance to one of my "pops" than there is to the whole and sum of your postings.

*******************************************************

Bee ~ Your 'cute' posting does nothing more than reveal the skewed nature of your thinking. I've held my beliefs long before I met Demetris, and the situation of Bush is totally apart from what any man, cute or otherwise, thinks. Perhaps, your own, perceived state of objectivity is more easily compromised. Let's see if YdF can "pop" up with the appropriate term of projection. We'd stand a better chance on that, if it didn't apply to you, of course. He's never been stellar in the realm of objectivity.

Following in the same vein, perhaps, you've only recently 'discovered' Dem in the Gallery, and your atypical coyness of "I can see that Dem indeed is a gorgeous looking guy" is, rather, testimony to your being swayed into "flattery nicey" mode.

Perhaps, you need concrete evidence, that a woman can actually think independently of a man, and haven't been around long enough to see me disagree with this man? The research is up to you.

~ Elizabeth

The american people are seeing for themselves how incompetent their leaders are. To use an old British phrase, you have lions being led by donkeys.

I like this.

Only it is not incompetence. It is worst. It is cary only for money and not for people or let say even for democracy.

On 9/11 the army was on the town the very first day. They told people to forget about their dead, as they ask people to forget about their dead in Iraq war. They did lie to the whole nation about the real purpose ot this war. Thisis not incompetence. This is something else.

Name it.

Demetris ~

As you'll recall, the legitimate, popular vote of voting, U.S. citizens did NOT elect Bush in either of the elections.

~ Lizzy

I've just learned on NPR that there are approximately 10,000 U.S. troops, in Iraq, who call the areas of the Gulf Coast impacted by Katrina, home. However, the government says it cannot afford to release them to go there to try to help or locate their loved ones. With time [that new, beloved word of this Administration], some will be allowed to go, however.

"Dem is it true that you are such a gorgeous guy?"

Tchocolatl also to your question the answer is simply:"no"

As for the rest of your message about the land been under sea level
I don't think I have mentioned anything about it.

Perhaps you are confused of the many messages I have posted today
in this thread (for which I apologise, but seating all day in this office without having much to do is a bit annoying)

Dem

Oh, yes, if these victims were in 3-piece suits, you can believe help would've arrived long ago.

Dear lizzytysh,

I know this is true for the 2000 election.
But for the 2004 one I don't think it is the case.

If you have some concrete evidence to the opposite
I would be glad to see it.

Dem

Tchoc ~

These are the facts:

Elevation: city ground elevation runs from 5 feet (1.5 m) below sea level to 17 feet (5.1m) above.

Some other ones [including that one] are:

New Orleans Facts:
Name derivation: for French regent Philippe, Duc d'Orleans
Founded: 1718; designated capital of Louisiana: 1722; Incorporated: 1805
Area: 199 square miles of dry land
Elevation: city ground elevation runs from 5 feet (1.5 m) below sea level to 17 feet (5.1m) above
Visitors: approximately 10 million each year
Population: 1,238,816 (metro statistical area- 1990); 496,958 (New Orleans proper)
Ethnic Composition: 1990- Black: 61.9%; White: 34.9%; Hispanic: 3.5%; Other:4.2%
Notable Structures:
> Oldest surviving building is the Ursuline Convent built between 1749 and 1753
> Tallest building in New Orleans is One shell square at 697 feet (219 m) and 51 floors
> The Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans has the longest roof span in the world with a diameter of 680 feet (207m)
Water Facts:
> almost half of New Orleans total 363.5 square miles (931 sq km) area is water
> Lake Pontchartrain is 621 square miles (1590 sq km) in size but nowhere more than 15 feet (4.5 m) deep
> the Mississippi River is at its widest and deepest in New Orleans at 212 feet (64m) deep and 220 feet (661m) wide

With the depth of Lake Pontchartrain, add to its 15 ft depth, a 5 ft-under depth, and you've got 20 feet of water, once the water in the lake has equalized with that in the city. However, with the Mississippi River, there's sure plenty more where that came from.

~ Lizzy

Hi Demetris ~

Unfortunately, it again has to include the vote counting; the malfunctioning; the voting lists, and people being stricken from them vs. allowing those who have served their time to vote; the redistricting affecting the electoral vote tallies; the snafu in Ohio; the sabotaging of people reaching the voting locations on time; the early closings of precincts; etc. In other words, corruption. Bush did not win the popular vote in 2004.

~ Lizzy

I've held my beliefs long before I met Demetris, and the situation of Bush is totally apart from what any man, cute or otherwise, thinks.

So this is true. A kind of Greek God or something. Well, body, that does not give you more argument.

OK, stop the joking, now.

I perfectly know Dem that you did not mention the level of sea to me. I do to you. You noticed. Good. Because since the beginning of the discussion nobody mention this fact. We can pass to an even serious level of the discussion.

Well, it is not easy to follow the discussion right now, as the arguments fuse in all directions.

The tsunami did more victims, but it was quick and we did not see them agonized under our eyes.

Now, I think that this worst than third word thing is exagerate. It is more shocking just because it is happening in the US.

Poverty, racism, and class problems are something to solve in a long term.

Poverty brings certain social problems always the same, and it is certainly not during a crisis like this one that those problems will disapear by themselves, in the contrary they likely to be amplified by the crisis. If people can stole jewels thinking this is what will make them out of abject misery nobody cares to take them off, they will. I don't say it is OK. I say it is likely to happen.

During such a crisis it is necessary to help people, innocent children first, and see for the rest after.

I repeat, you may have a lot of fun to play virtual boxes here, but the next important danger is diseases that can came out of the sanitary problems over there. So maybe it is important to think about it besides political opinions that must be express.

Anyway, have just fun if you want. I must go finish my things, now. Enough procrastination.

Craig's list
New Orleans lost & found
http://neworleans.craigslist.org/laf/

Survival of New Orleans blog
http://mgno.com/

Dem wrote:Young dr. Freud wrote

(Dem, seriously man, get a gun and come on over.)

Dear Young dr.Idiot thanks for the suggestion but I won't follow it.
It simply exposes your American culture: "get a gun and go over to a country you don't like and fix it'.

I'd rather stick to my Greek culture and donate some money for the
afflicted people if the USA officially asks for international help.


Dem

Tell me Dem - is calling people "psychopaths" or "idiots" also a part of Greek culture?

Do you think all Americans are responsible for Bush politics?

Do you think that those poor people in New Orleans deserved such a tragedy?

What do you think of Saddam's politics? You've never mentioned your point of view - are you pro or con, as far as terrorism is concerned?

What is your opinion of Greek politics - e.g. - do you feel responsible for so called Greek black colonels in the 40s, when thousands of Greeks had to leave their country? Was that also part of the Greek culture?
Before the Olympics in Athens thousands of homeless dogs were caught and murdered - is that also a part of the Greek culture? Do you personally feel responsible for this?

Please - answer at least some of those questions, but without that hate that you present here.

Mirek

Hi Lizzy,

No, I've not heard anything from St. Squidgy. I do though, know her to be extremely self-reliant as well as deeply compassionate much like your good-self and is probably busy helping somewhere. I'm sorry that some are giving you a rough time for the heartfelt empathy that you display here. I've tried to think how I would react to this terrible hardship. Tonight Anne and I went out for dinner-the Wisconsin tradition of eating fish on Friday night-and on a holiday weekend the restaurant was quite busy so we waited for over an hour for a table. Then, it took almost an hour to get served once we'd placed our order. By that time we were a bit crabby and it occurred to me that perhaps we should just shut up and be grateful that at the worst we could return to our home hungry but able to whip something up for ourselves. I've never really known desperation like our Southern brethren are facing. Once, at the end of a Cross-Country ski race, I waited with a bunch of others for a bus to take us back. It was cold and snowy and we were standing in icy water so it felt like our feet were going to become completely frozen. I was tired and hungry after skiing for four hours. The buses pulled up but wouldn't open their doors as there appeared to be some confusion about where we were to load. One of the first people in line started pounding on the side of the bus crying for them to open the door. The driver came out angry and refused to let anyone on before the person who had pounded on his bus acknowledged it and was taken away by the race officials. We finally were allowed to board and then the driver dropped us miles from our cars and said we were to walk from there. A good samaritan gave us a lift and saved the day. But, surely, such small potatoes compared to others suffering.

I spoke with a good friend tonight whose sister-in-law and family lived on Lake Ponchartrain. They haven't heard from her since Monday when she said she was leaving for Arkansas. He did hear from her son who said that their house was gone, but he hasn't spoken to his mother yet. My friend is a bit of a redneck and he was going on about the looting and his desire to see those responsible pay dearly. What is it about these feelings? I know many people who admire the hardline. Let's make them pay. We place this always in political terms. Here are some headlines that some acquaintances of mine wrote in jest:

"Bush views devastation; declares war on Iran."

"John Roberts must be stopped-he is pro-flood."

"John Kerry says, 'No hurricanes if I'm elected in '08'"

"Pat Robertson blames hurricane on low church attendance"

"To help poor in New Orleans, Bush cuts taxes for rich"

"Bush says, "Presidentin' is hard work, hard work, but we're making progress."

There are also the Biblical analogies. It is not hard to compare this with "the flood"-but there are other Biblical analogies, too. How about Ninevah?

"And should I not spare Ninevah, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand, and also much cattle?" (Jonah 4:11)

From what I understand, Ninevah was spared after many delays based on the search for an ever-decreasing number of "just" men.

Or the strange case of Job whose trials seem to be part of a wager between God and Satan. Job, at one point desires that his accuser identify himself so that he may know the case made against him. In a magnificient speech toward the end of the book, Job makes his case. Read it for yourself sometime as it is too long to quote here. I don't know if there is a more powerful statement of the essence of human dignity in an alien world than we get from this miserable creature scraping his boils with a potshard? How much can a man lose of what he has, before it affects what he is? Job possesses a consciousness that is neither proud nor abased, but simply responsible. Like Job, we sit here waiting for a whirlwind to provide some answer.

I'll be sure to let you know if I hear from Squidge.

Joe