Do Leonard Cohen Fans Favor Sad Songs?

[lightning]

I think yellowhe might be reacting to Brel's social criticism where he really laced into his fellow Belgian bourgeoisie using epithets like pigs,apes,cows etc. Since he himself was also a Belgian bourgeois, you might call it self-hatred, though he made an escape through his art.

[lizzytysh]

Oh, okay. Thanks, Lightning; with that explanation, I can see you're probably right. I wouldn't consider that "self-hatred," but that's probably just semantics. Just because he was born into it, doesn't mean he has to like it, and not see it for what it is in the way of its faults. It seems he may have used his art as a more 'acceptable' means of 'protest' and, as you've suggested with "escape," detachment from its values. I, of course, could be wrong in that perspective, too

~ Lizzy

[Tchocolatl]

Regarding women Brel is not always that corteous-lover-as-singer that Cohen is, most of times. (No politically correct songs, there ). So, to make it short : he insults people (spit on people) without any taboo, like people who suffer are often do in real life - No, nooooo Ladies and Gentleman people who suffer are not always those cute little beings one likes to go to the rescueof, sort of lamb-like sweet beings that will make one feels so good in the savior costume. No. People who suffer are often sick, ugly, bitter and provides, in the beginning, and for long, and sometimes for life, only suffering to others because this is all they know, and what they have inside - sometimes the infection is so bad that the savior(s) when they are not strong enough, is(are) drawn in it while trying to save the suffering person. Sometimes they go out of this, sometimes not, but in any case, they have those fits of spiteful bitter moment (and/or despear) that Brel has in some of his songs. Not all of them, however.

Cohen explored this dimension in his novels, not much in his songs, though.

[Kush]

Although Aznavour does not write his songs, he renders them with the same quality in the emotion that a singer doubled with an actor can do.

Hey....but Aznavour do write his own songs. Every one of them. Then he writes them again in English. Then sometimes in Spanish too I believe (or was it Italian?)

Brel is just a four-letter word....

[margaret]

Indeed Charles Aznavour does write his own songs. I have some albums on vinyl and his name is next to every song, in fact 2 albums are titled "Aznavour sings Aznavour", and "Az. sings Az. Vol. 2". He also was a very effective actor in a movie I saw which I think was called "Shoot the pianist"

[linda_lakeside]

Ha! Aznavour is 'genius', isn't he? But then, so is Brel. 'They' don't seem to make them like they used to.

Too many young artists are going for the big buck, therefore losing any impetus to really learn their craft. But you can't learn genius.

Linda.

[Kush]

Margaret.....I saw him in the movie Ararat about the Armenian massacre. He was a little wooden I thought at the time but the movie is a masterpiece and done in a very unique way. A movie about the making of a movie about a real tragedy.

[Tchocolatl]

ok-ok

Aznavour his a songwriter (stick to the facts, yes, always ). What I really mean (what i feel) is that Aznavour is more skilled as an interpreter than as song writer in regard of Brel and Cohen.

Aznavour wrote some songs for Edith Piaf before doing his own career. She helped to launch him in fact, she was seeing him as the next "her" in a male body. She was right.

Charles A. also sings many many songs form other people, for example, songs written by those persons (and maybe the list is not exhaustive):

Beauvais, Bontempelli, Clair, Delanoë, Dimey, Dorin, Dupac, Forestier, Gall, Gallop, Kretzmer, Mareuil, Marnay, Martin, Nohain, Pantera, Peigné, Plante, Salmon, Stéphane , Vidalin.

See the link (in French, sorry) for the titles of the songs, they are in red :

http://fan.aznavour.free.fr/les_auteurs.htm

Also I don't think that he is as skilled a poet as Messieurs Brel & Cohen can be. Not half of them. Not 1/4 of them. Not 1/8. Not 1/12. And more. But. He is a fabulous actor-signer as well as those two, in regard of the capacity of passing emotion (each of them in their own original style) This, yes.

[linda_lakeside]

Performers vs. lyricists/composers/singers - they're all 'entertainers' in that the reach us through their art. They will always be a 'matter of taste'. Edith Piaf, I loved. As in opera, one doesn't have to be familiar with the language to get the 'feeling'. The drama.

And, its always a matter of taste.

Linda.

[Tchocolatl]

Yes, personal tastes are not to be discussed, of course. I never do this.

But when it comes to talent, it is obvious how some people have a lot of talent, and others not so much. Life is not fair. Life is just awfull beautiful even if so sad sometimes.

[linda_lakeside]

Life is not fair. Life is just awfull beautiful even if so sad sometimes.

I'll put $20.00 on that one.

Linda.

[Tchocolatl]

Unfortunately I don't smoke and I don't bet, I only drink sometimes and swear but only in the greatest of occasions.

Well if you want to bet on the rest of the content of my post - or not - this may be interesting :

http://www.jacquesbrel.be/

http://www.c-aznavour.com/

[lightning]

No mention of Brassens? Chanson pour l'Auvergnat ma préferrée.

[Tchocolatl]

A sad song if there is. Though it put beautifully in evidence the intelligence of the heart

[lightning]

Brassens is most difficult to translate because of his use of argot, words I can't find in the dictionary, allusions to things only people within his culture would know. His music isn't that interesting, too simple, but his words and ideas sometimes seem the best. It's a real struggle for an English speaker to know him.