leonardcohenforum.com

last post pb (pre-bath) and it's probably the first thing said by paints with which I agree, we are *not* the same geezer! trust me on that, please!

when the authorities finally agree on the correct punishment for all my brilliant sins, let it be anything but a condemnation to write as dully as paints, or to behave as deceitfully as him.

If you don't want anyone to comment on your poem don't post it - simple. I for one am indebted to Joe, Tom, C2 and Laurie and anyone else who took the time to read and comment on them.

I don't have the expertise to comment on others work I just know if I like it or not.

Teratogen you will need to grow a thicker skin if you want to get thru life without getting upset about a few comments which you disagree with.

I respectfully disagree, Paula. It's isn't about not wanting any comments or critiques about poetry that is posted or about being thin-skinned. It's about the way that it is done. Go and look at Poem 2 and the difference between Linda's critique and Critic2's. (and I'm am not talking about how in-depth it was). After reading that I am completely disallusioned about Critic2. He wasn't trying to be helpful. He was being deliberately vicious because Teratogen had rubbed him the wrong way somehow. I defy anybody to read that critique and come away with any other conclusion but that Critic2 was being vicious.

I, for one am no longer being taken in by him. A lot of people here seem to know him personally, so you have a different view of him. The rest of us just know what we see written here and it's ugly.

If there are rules for poetry, which Critic2 seems to know so much about, why aren't their rules for criticism as well. Also, why can't we criticise the critic and he has to "take it."

of course you can criticise the critic although, as I mentioned before, the approach recommended elsewhere is a simple response of "thank you" to negative crits. but it's obvious a critic must never whinge if his own crits. are bad-mouthed.

but if you have a spare moment try an egoless approach to my opinions of poems here . I called it as I see it. I really did read those clichees (lost accent thingy, forgive me) and the half beats out. I wonder why your ego is engaged on matters like that?


it's also fine for Linda to make gentle, shorter comments which will certainly not upset anyone's sensitivity.

That wasn't an egoless approach. Your ego was all over it.

post deleted

ha ha! if my ego was all over it I would be nice to everyone. reality is not that scary, Achilles. it has never bothered me what a troll thinks so I will just have to continue calling as I see it.

troll reference, btw, is *not* to you!

all the best, dinner is now being called as the "chef" sees it,

later

c2

"Deceitfully" and "as dully"?
Oh my dear boy. I have done nothing but comment on your writing for which you have attacked me personally. I have questioned why you are not willing to accept that which you endlessly give.

Tell me, sweet boy, are you one of those blokes that can dish it out but can't take it?

Thnaks for the correction John. You're right it is Poem #2 not 17. I will go back and correct that.

Critic2, as I said I don't know you all I know is what is posted here. That's all I can go by.

Achilles - I think Linda has a similar attitude to me in that she does not feel she has the expertise to expand on what is wrong with the poem and what would be a good way of improving it. She is just making a general comment "yes I like the poem because".

The ones I mentioned took the time to make constructive comments some more forcefully than others. That is down to their personalities some people are just more plain speaking than others.

John K the poem is called "Soft 17" it is #2 in the contest.
Funny thing-i commented nicely that it was not a very good poem. Critic2 was much more succinct. Something that if nothing else took a small bit of time.

Few folks stick their necks out; from elemental novices (such as myself) to those more informed (take your pick!) fact is mostly you will find elements of truth from the speaker. Fact is, all comments take some amount of time and effort and thought by the critiquer.

Most 'poets' around here do not take the time to comment. Teratogen has recently said, he is not 'a critic' or something very close to that as his excuse for not critiquing. Personally, in the past i have commented frequently to Terat's writing. I like his energy and style. I do not have delusions that my comments will make him (or anyone else) a better writer....hopefully a more thoughtful one...you know, a thought turned inward about one's own written word...and not just the emotion or event that is the impetus to their poem . sigh.

Comments can be simple as merely reflecting on the topic the poem conveys...no expertise needed there. Most everyone walks away from this aspect of sharing poetry on this site.

ciao,
L

there's a wonderful passage in my prayer book about one student grassing his fellows to the Rabbi, complaining thay are playing cards into the small hours. The Rabbi responds with praise that they are learning to stay up all night and all they then have to do is turn to the Bible and waht wonderful students they will be.

if certain trolls here redirected their energy away from starting endless snide posts and tried to write poems or give crits, this place would be so much nicer.

I just read your edited post. The one where you now ask me,

I wonder why your ego is engaged on matters like that?

It all seems to come back to this. Someone questions your behaviour on this forum and you begin talking about "their" ego.

I repeat, YOU should try an egoless way to critique poetry. If that poem had been written by one of your friends (and you knew it was written by Teratogen before you wrote your critique) you criticism would have been "gentle and short" and sure not to "upset anyone's sensitivity."

Paula, I respect your opionion but on poem #2 that was destructive not constructive criticism.

I didn't know you wrote songs for a musical, C2. Will you write me one? Please?

Paula: You're absolutely right in that I dont' feel I am qualified to crit. I merely made comment on something I saw and liked. Beyond that, I'm afraid, I'm pretty ineffectual.

After reading all this commotion, I'm jumping in with my two cents. When i read Teratogen's poem #2 I didn't think it was very good. But when I read Critic2's criticism, I thought Critic2 was far worse. This was obviously a vendetta and very childish. Those of you who defend Critic2's behavior on this board as Achilles said, know him personally or know those who know him. Those of us who don't do not have a good impression.

Linda, you wrote,

I could be wrong, but I don't think C2 or anyone on the board tears people's poems to pieces just for the hell of it. I don't think anyone here is a poem vandal.
We aren't 2 year olds.

Well, I think he does do it for the hell of it. For all of you who think he is just fine... go back and read his critiques and pretend for a moment that they are written by someone else on the forum. Someone you don't particularly care for or somebody you don't know. It might give you a different perspective.