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Well said, Linda -- but sometimes you just have to 'rumble'.

I personally find it much more impressive when someone you were accustomed to being a 'thorn' and consistent 'nay-sayer' to you, turns around at the right moment, & offers to go out of their way to tape a favourite, long-lost album and post it to you! That's what I call meta- : Lizzytysh!

Love & light,
Makera

Thank you, Makera ~

I agree ~ theoretically and in principle, as well as from the other side of the glass . WE [both] also cannot totally ignore the theory that what irritates us most in another is something that's also in ourselves .

Leonard Cohen fans come in all ages, sizes, looks, races, nationalities, ethnicities, religions, spiritualities, knowledge levels, talents, skills, abilities, personalities, characters, and temperaments. A very long list ~ and when they all come together, all the more interesting in the end . That's why this is such a precious opportunity for all of us.....to share, to learn about Leonard and many other things, to spat & tiff as needed [or not ], to get to know and respect each other, and to grow . Kinda like real life.....hmmm . "Where there's a will, there's a way." That's how I see it .

As Makera says ,
Love & light,
Lizzytysh

This may surprise you Lizzy, but you didn't really "irritate" me; you could 'wear me out', by the sheer volume -- I'll grant you that!

Love & Light,
~Makera

Ahh ~ okay, hmmm....I took the "thorn" and "nay-sayer" to be equivalent to "irritate." I've encountered the former in real, plant life, and it was an irritation ~ at best. Well, then, I'll just speak for myself, because you did irritate me . Yes, volume ~ I'll grant you that, as well.......we're all so different, aren't we .

"Love & Light"
[Nonetheless ],
~ Lizzytysh

Hello Linda,

I loved your post and I agree with you whole-heartedly.

There is no template for a Leonard Cohen fan we are all unique and we all have our foibles. I call a spade a spade it is my nature. I appreciate I can be tactless, brutal and blunt but I can also be kind and considerate it depends on the situation at the time.

I can't change the way I see the world and if my perceptions aren't yours that is all part of the rich tapestry and complexity of mankind.

Very true, Paula, and very well said. Likewise, hypocrisy is not my strong suit; and if I get to the point of laying my cards on the table, they're all going to be face up. Otherwise, why do it?

~ Elizabeth

Paula~
I really liked your analogy of being "part of the rich tapestry and complexity of mankind". It reminds me of metaphors used by Khalil Gibran in his beautiful work: "The Prophet". I think you would like it. No irony or fiction.

Lizzy~
The differences are found in our motives and intentions; it's not so much what we do, but why that really counts. Understanding people and what causes certain behaviours has always helped me maintain objectivity and compassion, without taking things personally, (i.e. to separate 'object' from 'subject'). Love & Truth are indistinguishable for me. Someone's desire to be a 'thorn', does not necessarily make it so for me.

Love & Light,
Makera

I would at least expect a true follower of LC to be knowledgeable of his work, especially someone who has been a fan for many years.

I was just stating what I would expect his fans to be like, from my perspective. I would think he would attract people of the same nature as himself. Obviously not.

Ciao Everyone!

This is so interesting. The dynamics between Lizzytysh and Makera. Excellent! I too have an analogy. Their relationship reminds me of the great American novel Moby Dick. I see Makera as Captain Ahab and Lizzytysh as Moby Dick. The way they chase one another around the Board. Again, excellent!

Vesuvius

Ah....here is the perfect demonstration of the politics of exclusion. Make two people the "true LC fans" and exclude everyone else. The others want to be included too (they are not antiheroes or antiheroines) so they are wondering aloud just what is in their way, whether it is the possibly arbitrary standards set by the system for "true LC fan" or whether it is the lack of some qualities in the rest of us to be "true LC fan". Bruce will understand.

Linda~
But what is LC's "nature"? I don't know for sure; but as he seems to have appealed, in a similar way as St Paul described , by being "all things to all people" -- that is the diversity he attracts. His works provide the catalyst and bridge to unity for those drawn to gatherings like this.
The workings of Spirit through people seeking it is not an easy, simple or 'warm & fuzzy', experience. It never was; don't his writings reflect this?

Love,
Makera

PS. Ves, I would never harm a whale! What a goofy 'analogy'; is that the best you can do?

Ciao Makera,

I thought it a darned good analogy. Where one is the other appears. Excellent! First tossing harpoons and now bouquets. Splendid.

Vesuvius

Ciao Linda,

I like you even if no one else does. You are not persona non grata to me!


Vesuvius

Ciao Kush,

Linda did not say there were only two true fans of Leonard Cohen. She was giving the compliment to Hannah and Margaret. She did not exclude anyone. She gave her opinion of the ideal fan. And she states that rumbleness was not a trait you think of in regard to Leonard. Is she not right? Too many of us love snapping, we believe it shows we are not hypocrites. But in my country we say it is always the hypocrite who says he is not a hypocrite.

Vesuvius