Paula, George Sand was another one.
Very interesting subject. To begin with, I always thought that Jurica was a woman. What a surprise.
fans sex
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Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
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George.Wright
- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
Coco ~
I know what you mean about the feminist myth with the doors, et al. However, I also recall a time when that actually would occur. I'm wondering, since jurica is from another country [Croatia?], if there's a delayed response with that response being given there, even though it's died out here now. People seem to have chilled out with it now....and seem more likely to accept it as a courtesy, as I will hold a door for a woman, as well as a man, depending on the circumstances. Just going by jurica's previous postings, it doesn't seem like he'd just make it up, you know what I mean? But, I could be wrong. It is the very trite, stereotypical way of addressing the issue. I don't know. When I first read it, though, I took it as having really happened. Then, when you made your comment so forcefully, I thought, hmmm.....maybe not. I'd like to think that [for the sake of credibility] this really rude thing actually did occur.
Tchocolatl ~
For a long time, I presumed jurica was a woman, too.....the name just sounded female. His responses seemed to give no real clues, until something was said [can't remember what now] and I realized, "Ah! So jurica's a man, eh?".
YoJo ~ I like it and hope you keep it. It has a certain pizazz.
~ Elizabeth
I know what you mean about the feminist myth with the doors, et al. However, I also recall a time when that actually would occur. I'm wondering, since jurica is from another country [Croatia?], if there's a delayed response with that response being given there, even though it's died out here now. People seem to have chilled out with it now....and seem more likely to accept it as a courtesy, as I will hold a door for a woman, as well as a man, depending on the circumstances. Just going by jurica's previous postings, it doesn't seem like he'd just make it up, you know what I mean? But, I could be wrong. It is the very trite, stereotypical way of addressing the issue. I don't know. When I first read it, though, I took it as having really happened. Then, when you made your comment so forcefully, I thought, hmmm.....maybe not. I'd like to think that [for the sake of credibility] this really rude thing actually did occur.
Tchocolatl ~
For a long time, I presumed jurica was a woman, too.....the name just sounded female. His responses seemed to give no real clues, until something was said [can't remember what now] and I realized, "Ah! So jurica's a man, eh?".
YoJo ~ I like it and hope you keep it. It has a certain pizazz.
~ Elizabeth
still replying non-LC related posts:
i don't know if this is because Croatia was a communist country (you don't have feminism in commy countries) until ten years ago, or for some other reason, but we DO seem to be late in this feminist's activity.
belive it or not, it makes no difference, but it did happen.
further more; in Zagreb (capital of C., where i live at the moment) half of buildings are covered with: 'i don't want to spend my life cleaning your pants' or 'no means no' sort of graffiti... some jumbo commercials with young girls have 'i love my fat' stapled over them... they just opened 'women studies', where only women are alowed to attend (and that same friend i told you about, but you didn't belive, attends it)...
belive it or not, folks, it happens!
and Jo... don't you think YoJo sounds too much like a toy? sorry for the mistake. i think there used to be a Yo here? but than again, maybe not.
i don't know if this is because Croatia was a communist country (you don't have feminism in commy countries) until ten years ago, or for some other reason, but we DO seem to be late in this feminist's activity.
belive it or not, it makes no difference, but it did happen.
further more; in Zagreb (capital of C., where i live at the moment) half of buildings are covered with: 'i don't want to spend my life cleaning your pants' or 'no means no' sort of graffiti... some jumbo commercials with young girls have 'i love my fat' stapled over them... they just opened 'women studies', where only women are alowed to attend (and that same friend i told you about, but you didn't belive, attends it)...
belive it or not, folks, it happens!
and Jo... don't you think YoJo sounds too much like a toy? sorry for the mistake. i think there used to be a Yo here? but than again, maybe not.
Yo jurica! 
[a phrase of greeting over here] ~ I believe you, with your accounting of how things are in Croatia right now, and the rude occurrence. It really didn't seem like you to just make something up. It also makes sense that with the pendulum being at its extreme right now [as it was here for awhile] that the signage you speak of and the comments being made by women are, in fact, happening. Even though it may not have been a literal "scream" [there may have been a better word choice there], I know it feels like one when it happens because it comes as such an unexpected, verbal jolt, from someone you like and felt you were just being gracious to. There was a time [years back] when I went through a similar period, with my response being more to the effect of, "Thanks. I can get it." Their response would be along the line of "Okaaay [shrug shoulders, look of confusion on face]." These are just times you have to come through, but will.
I would think it could also be even more extreme there than it was here [and women studies people, please clarify on this], as the suppression of women [people in general] was/is more extreme in a communist country [even more institutionalized, with less opportunity for pockets of people who simply don't live, agree with, feel that way ~ as it's been here?], so there's even more to react against.
If I'm wrong in this speculation, please clarify, as I have not taken a women's studies course....and I know for a fact that there's much to be found there.
As for Jo's potentially new name, she is a very playful person in these cyberparts, and I think it fits her great ~ Yo YoJo !
~ Elizabeth
[a phrase of greeting over here] ~ I believe you, with your accounting of how things are in Croatia right now, and the rude occurrence. It really didn't seem like you to just make something up. It also makes sense that with the pendulum being at its extreme right now [as it was here for awhile] that the signage you speak of and the comments being made by women are, in fact, happening. Even though it may not have been a literal "scream" [there may have been a better word choice there], I know it feels like one when it happens because it comes as such an unexpected, verbal jolt, from someone you like and felt you were just being gracious to. There was a time [years back] when I went through a similar period, with my response being more to the effect of, "Thanks. I can get it." Their response would be along the line of "Okaaay [shrug shoulders, look of confusion on face]." These are just times you have to come through, but will. I would think it could also be even more extreme there than it was here [and women studies people, please clarify on this], as the suppression of women [people in general] was/is more extreme in a communist country [even more institutionalized, with less opportunity for pockets of people who simply don't live, agree with, feel that way ~ as it's been here?], so there's even more to react against.
If I'm wrong in this speculation, please clarify, as I have not taken a women's studies course....and I know for a fact that there's much to be found there.
As for Jo's potentially new name, she is a very playful person in these cyberparts, and I think it fits her great ~ Yo YoJo
! ~ Elizabeth
Last edited by lizzytysh on Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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peter danielsen
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm
Competent women
Women of the west today is at least as compentent as the men. Most women realize this and therefore do not mind that they are described as beautiful sexual active persons in songs, books and pictures. There is nothing patronizing about pictures of naked woman, displayed as persons who likes sexual pleasures.They know that they are, just as they know that the have at least equal competence on the intelectual field.
Thats why the ultra feminist who are very active in the public debate do not represent many women other than themselfes
Peter
Thats why the ultra feminist who are very active in the public debate do not represent many women other than themselfes
Peter
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Tchocolatl
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- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
Lizzytysh, yes it was all about this "a" thing. As far as I'm concern, "Jurico" would not have been mistaken at all. Maybe another East/West misunderstanding. But now, with two female George(s), I wonder about the George(s) of this board (Wright)?
My understanding of this debate about the power of men and women :
It should be fixed in some frames. Natural frame, and social frame.
In nature, men and women are equals, that why men do not understand. "What do they want".
Beautiful bodies (male or female) are fashionnable like anything else (fat or thin, white or suntanned, hairy or not, etc. etc. ) and beautiful men and women are more fascinating than the average, this is a fact, this gave them power that other does not have.
When you live in a society that denied you any kind, of few social power, this natural power, that can't be denied, is the only one left. That is why women are screaming about : Social Justice (with a big J).
Give men and women equal social rights because it is not the case right now, considering that men and women are very different, the rights would have to be different - here a lot of feminists made the mistake to ask for their rights as if women were men. Big mistake.
That's it.
My understanding of this debate about the power of men and women :
It should be fixed in some frames. Natural frame, and social frame.
In nature, men and women are equals, that why men do not understand. "What do they want".
Beautiful bodies (male or female) are fashionnable like anything else (fat or thin, white or suntanned, hairy or not, etc. etc. ) and beautiful men and women are more fascinating than the average, this is a fact, this gave them power that other does not have.
When you live in a society that denied you any kind, of few social power, this natural power, that can't be denied, is the only one left. That is why women are screaming about : Social Justice (with a big J).
Give men and women equal social rights because it is not the case right now, considering that men and women are very different, the rights would have to be different - here a lot of feminists made the mistake to ask for their rights as if women were men. Big mistake.
That's it.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."
Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."
Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
Don't worry, sometimes I am off-target!