I listened to a report on NPR [yesterday or day before] about the IRA reportedly/allegedly decommissioning "ALL" of their weapons. Some are ready to accept the eye-witness observations and reports at face value; whereas, others want photos and descriptions of 'how' exactly they were "decommissioned" ~ broken up; cement poured over caches of them; what?
It sure sounded like a 'save face' compromise to me, and like it could be the best thing that's happened to the area in many years. Does anyone else here [from either country] have particular feelings about the 'legitimacy' and long-term implications of what's [reportedly] happened? It seems to have been such a bloody conflict that's gone on for so long between two, developed, and certainly civilized countries. I was happy to hear about it.
~ Lizzy
Sadness and Joy in the News
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Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
Dear Boss,Boss wrote:"We asked for signs
the signs were sent
the birth betrayed
the marriage spent
yeah the widowhood
of every government -
signs for all to see
I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned
a big thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me"
An excerpt from 'Anthem' from the album The Future. There are 'good' politicians but they are as rare as hen's teeth. It has to be faced, we are led by crooks in their frocks of pretence. Religion, politics, business - those who rise to the top are invariably bent. Can't you just sense it?
I agree with you Tchoc about our sun. It will burn out one day and Humanity will be long gone. But we may indeed be living in other galaxies, other solar systems! In fact, this is one strong reason I postulate G-d created us through evolution - to discover the universe, to settle other planets. Who knows where Mankind will be in 1000 or 20000 years. Look at where we are now. What miracles lay ahead? We are only at the base of the mountain. Let's start climbing together; and let those who come after us look upon us fondly.
However, I am not blind. I also agree with you that our current ecological state is a sham. We gotta work together to do something about our environment or the above dreams will be but fantasy. So much creation has been lost by those men of power. Capital is what they breathe. Once a tiger is extinct you can't bring him back. A billion dollars won't pay the bill. We do live in precarious times.
We ask for freedom, freedom was sent.
Now people seems not not know what to do with it.
So they chained themselves to whatever looks like "security". Be it an obsolete/false idea, what dealers want make them to think (you-need-this-an-that-to-be-happy/somebody). Name it. A jail is a jail in any languages. So, even if you open the door of the jail, they stay there because they feel in "security" there. Wild world.
I know. Capitalism. People of power, I like better 'cause "people of power" is very democratic. And more in accordance with reality. A person could do power abuse at any time anywhere. When they are not mature (or councious
) enough, people "behave" only by fear of punishment. When they are free, it takes time to grow up. One step behind, two steps forward, sometimes.It seems like if humanity is in teenage, don't you think so?
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Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
m the hippie club f
r yu
:
uld y 
u repeat the questi 
n? Peace 
It is hippy hippy shake, Tchoc!!!
Yes Tchoc I believe Humanity is in its teenage phase. An age of difficult adolescence. You put it so succinctly. We have to take that step into full blown adulthood; maturity. Money must be overlooked. LOVE must fill our hearts and minds. It is the only way. But how? So many of our leaders see money as the apex, the top, when it is human (and animal and vegetable) life that must take precedence. There is a way; but the road will be long and tough. Many surprises may be in store. But in the end we will prevail. We have to.
Kindest regards
Boss
Yes Tchoc I believe Humanity is in its teenage phase. An age of difficult adolescence. You put it so succinctly. We have to take that step into full blown adulthood; maturity. Money must be overlooked. LOVE must fill our hearts and minds. It is the only way. But how? So many of our leaders see money as the apex, the top, when it is human (and animal and vegetable) life that must take precedence. There is a way; but the road will be long and tough. Many surprises may be in store. But in the end we will prevail. We have to.
Kindest regards
Boss
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Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
Tchoc and Boss ~
Two things I think you two will enjoy and of which you may already be aware:
(1) From a poster of a beautiful, young, Native American Indian woman standing atop a boulder with a crag of cliff behind her, to her right; dressed in full, but simple, traditional costume, a full-length dress, with several, wide and narrow, vertical stripes on a plain background; and with a feather attached to her blowing hair:
**********************************************************
(2) An excerpt from Richard Bach's book The Bridge Across Forever:
. No offense, Michael ~ I know you're not all the same .]
~ Lizzy
Two things I think you two will enjoy and of which you may already be aware:
(1) From a poster of a beautiful, young, Native American Indian woman standing atop a boulder with a crag of cliff behind her, to her right; dressed in full, but simple, traditional costume, a full-length dress, with several, wide and narrow, vertical stripes on a plain background; and with a feather attached to her blowing hair:
Only after the Last Tree has been cut down,
Only after the last Last River has been poisoned,
Only after the Last Fish has been caught,
Only then will you find that
Money Cannot Be Eaten.
~ Cree Indian Prophecy
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(2) An excerpt from Richard Bach's book The Bridge Across Forever:
The latter, of course, is not to suggest that one just live in the world, as though money weren't a currency; but that money is not the end-all, be-all, of everything. [The latter also reminds me of when I was in a relationship with an attorneyI have dated some of the brightest, most glamorous, wealthy men in the world," she said, "but they didn't make me happy. Most of them pull up at your door in a car bigger than your house, they're wearing the right clothes and they take you to the right restaurant where all the other right people have gone, and you get your picture taken and it all looks so glamorous and fun and right! I kept thinking, I'd rather go to a good restaurant than the right one, wear clothes I like instead of what designers thought was In, that year. Most of all, I'd rather have a quiet talk or go for a walk in the woods. Different values, I guess.
"We have to deal in a currency that's meaningful to us," she said, "or all the success in the world won't feel good, it won't bring happiness. If someone promised they'd pay you a million scrunchies to walk across the street, and scrunchies had no meaning for you, would you cross the street? If they promised a hundred million scrunchies, so what?"
. No offense, Michael ~ I know you're not all the same .]~ Lizzy
G'day Lizzy and Tchoc,
Firstly, thanks Lizzy for the 2 items above. Warmly received.
Love is the essence of all things. It's what makes us whole. It 'is bigger than death', my father would say as he went down battling cancer. It is giving. It is giving unconditionally. It is the balm of the world. Soft; it is also tough, resilient, unconquerable. Never shirking an issue it listens intently to all. It is sweet. It is hope. It is G-d. It suffers through the mist - it has to for reality.
Conversely, money is the essence of greed. Take, take, take. It sucks the marrow out of Life. Deadens it. The more you have the sicker you become. Sick until you're so unfree you notice you have no more wings. You find your heart has hardened, your soul has become stuck. You can have anything but you're still pissed off because you've lost that connection with Love. Give it up.
In peace
Boss
Firstly, thanks Lizzy for the 2 items above. Warmly received.
Love is the essence of all things. It's what makes us whole. It 'is bigger than death', my father would say as he went down battling cancer. It is giving. It is giving unconditionally. It is the balm of the world. Soft; it is also tough, resilient, unconquerable. Never shirking an issue it listens intently to all. It is sweet. It is hope. It is G-d. It suffers through the mist - it has to for reality.
Conversely, money is the essence of greed. Take, take, take. It sucks the marrow out of Life. Deadens it. The more you have the sicker you become. Sick until you're so unfree you notice you have no more wings. You find your heart has hardened, your soul has become stuck. You can have anything but you're still pissed off because you've lost that connection with Love. Give it up.
In peace
Boss
On a sunny, warm, perfectly calm day, 21 people died as a result of the capsizing of a tour boat on Lake George, north of Albany in New York. Apparently, as a result of encountering a wake from another, larger boat. The boat they were on now rests 70 feet down at the bottom of Lake George. All were elderly citizens, most of them infirm in one way or another. At first, I heard they were from Canada. Now, I hear they're from Michigan. It doesn't matter which ~ what a very sad day for these people and their families.
~ Lizzy
~ Lizzy
Hi Boss ~
I don't mean to sound so extreme as to say/think that all money is inherently evil. I really don't feel that. It's the form of currency we use to make it through our daily lives. For me, it's how money gets used that matters. Two passages a little further along in the book say:
Anyway, money can be used for good. It can be used to clean up the filth in our varying environments; to devise and implement alternatives for heating and electricity and vehicles, so we would not be dependant on oil; to help people and animals, who need care and better living conditions; etc. The problem for me, is that it's not used for these measures enough, as its importance remains too high for those in positions to really do these things, and they choose to use it other ways, generally-speaking, for personal gain.
~ Lizzy
I don't mean to sound so extreme as to say/think that all money is inherently evil. I really don't feel that. It's the form of currency we use to make it through our daily lives. For me, it's how money gets used that matters. Two passages a little further along in the book say:
and another, about, do not try to buy the affections of a woman....however, I can't locate it, and have to leave. If I find it later, I'll edit this."Two things I do value a lot, intimacy and the capacity for joy, didn't seem to be on anyone else's list. I felt like the stranger in a strange land, and decided I'd better not marry the natives."
Anyway, money can be used for good. It can be used to clean up the filth in our varying environments; to devise and implement alternatives for heating and electricity and vehicles, so we would not be dependant on oil; to help people and animals, who need care and better living conditions; etc. The problem for me, is that it's not used for these measures enough, as its importance remains too high for those in positions to really do these things, and they choose to use it other ways, generally-speaking, for personal gain.
~ Lizzy
To not need money is where a civil society should reside. Money creates dissension. My thread 'Leonard is bigger than money' contains most of my views on this seemingly impossible idea. But it is not impossible if only we learned to share. I know I sound naive, but stiff! Has anyone got any better ideas? Look at the world scene now... Ruled by money. We don't need it. Imagine Rupert Murdoch at the same socio-economic level as a peasant in China. Reduced to what he already really is; a man, just a man. You see, the two men both smell, taste, make love and dance. And who really knows who's happier? Why do so many strive to 'get' and 'buy', get along in 'the ranks'? The smell of a spring day will always have it over a Nintendo game. Always. Has to do with millions of years of evolution and money can't buy that.
Money may be in vogue now, but for how long?
Money may be in vogue now, but for how long?
Hi Boss ~
I know what you're saying, and in principle I agree. However, the practicalities and logistics are what create issues at this point. If we were still trading pelts [killing animals in the process
], there could be just as much greed and fanaticism over who's accumulated the greatest number of them, etc., ad infinitum. It's the greed, moreso than the form it uses for exercise that's the problem.
I agree that in some/many[?] situations, it seems the peasant prevails in the happiness realm more than the proverbial rich man; however, I'm afraid I can't indulge in the whole of the discussion regarding money. I don't begrudge a person's having it. I just look closely at how it gets used. It can be a powerful commodity for doing 'good,' as well as 'evil.'
It works for getting me on an airplane; whereas, mere trading would more likely keep me grounded. Even if it would get me onboard, carrying pelts to trade with the locals on Hydra wouldn't be practical in the luggage department, nor with them, as they have no need of pelts. I'm not making fun of you and how you feel about it. I'm just [quickly] trying to carry out the concept before I have to get off here and to bed.
I admire what is clearly your belief that it's 'the other things' in life that count more than the accumulation of wealth. However, we do seem to need something as an exchange that offers us more flexibility, overall, for getting our other needs met. We would be restricted to our local environments if we returned to trade. That may not be such a bad thing, either; but, I really have more interest in traveling and experiencing other cultures, than I do in being 'stuck' in one place, because it's the most practical for commerce.
OK. Enough. Talk with you later, Boss.
~ Lizzy
I know what you're saying, and in principle I agree. However, the practicalities and logistics are what create issues at this point. If we were still trading pelts [killing animals in the process
], there could be just as much greed and fanaticism over who's accumulated the greatest number of them, etc., ad infinitum. It's the greed, moreso than the form it uses for exercise that's the problem. I agree that in some/many[?] situations, it seems the peasant prevails in the happiness realm more than the proverbial rich man; however, I'm afraid I can't indulge in the whole of the discussion regarding money. I don't begrudge a person's having it. I just look closely at how it gets used. It can be a powerful commodity for doing 'good,' as well as 'evil.'
It works for getting me on an airplane; whereas, mere trading would more likely keep me grounded. Even if it would get me onboard, carrying pelts to trade with the locals on Hydra wouldn't be practical in the luggage department, nor with them, as they have no need of pelts. I'm not making fun of you and how you feel about it. I'm just [quickly] trying to carry out the concept before I have to get off here and to bed.
I admire what is clearly your belief that it's 'the other things' in life that count more than the accumulation of wealth. However, we do seem to need something as an exchange that offers us more flexibility, overall, for getting our other needs met. We would be restricted to our local environments if we returned to trade. That may not be such a bad thing, either; but, I really have more interest in traveling and experiencing other cultures, than I do in being 'stuck' in one place, because it's the most practical for commerce.
OK. Enough. Talk with you later, Boss.
~ Lizzy
Dear Lizzy,
I don't advocate 'trade' as an alternative for money. I advocate the abolition of all 'exchange'! It is a dream, pie in the sky stuff, but it is worth considering. We are intelligent beings capable of change. We are intelligent, sentient beings capable of walking on the moon. It can be done, it will only take some will and some time. Imagine it if you can - this is what Lennon was about. Only dreamers change the world.
Take it easy
Boss
I don't advocate 'trade' as an alternative for money. I advocate the abolition of all 'exchange'! It is a dream, pie in the sky stuff, but it is worth considering. We are intelligent beings capable of change. We are intelligent, sentient beings capable of walking on the moon. It can be done, it will only take some will and some time. Imagine it if you can - this is what Lennon was about. Only dreamers change the world.
Take it easy
Boss
Hi Boss ~
I'm open to listening. Please describe a day in the life of someone in four, different areas of my country or yours. Without money or currency of any kind, or trade, are you speaking of simply sharing? If that's it, how do the necessary goods and groceries get from point A to point B? I read something about dreams that reminded me of you the other day [a quotable quote] ~ if I can remember where I saw it, I'll bring it here. It was a positive about holding onto your dreams. I'm not suggesting you abandon them; just want to hear more clearly how they'd play out.
~ Lizzy
I'm open to listening. Please describe a day in the life of someone in four, different areas of my country or yours. Without money or currency of any kind, or trade, are you speaking of simply sharing? If that's it, how do the necessary goods and groceries get from point A to point B? I read something about dreams that reminded me of you the other day [a quotable quote] ~ if I can remember where I saw it, I'll bring it here. It was a positive about holding onto your dreams. I'm not suggesting you abandon them; just want to hear more clearly how they'd play out.
~ Lizzy