Everything you eat can cause problems to someone. The old adage "a little of what you fancy does you good" still holds true. People should eat to live not live to eat
Muffins or War
I think people are obsessed with food. Those that have enough to eat should be grateful and those that don't need all the help they can get.
Everything you eat can cause problems to someone. The old adage "a little of what you fancy does you good" still holds true. People should eat to live not live to eat
Everything you eat can cause problems to someone. The old adage "a little of what you fancy does you good" still holds true. People should eat to live not live to eat
Energy of Slaves
Kush, How many slaves did I meet today? Counting wage slaves I would say millions. "Everybody knows that the deal is rotten. Old Black Joe is still picking cotton for your ribbons and your bows...everybody knows." (to get back to Leonard Cohen, almost forgotten for the Muffin Man.)
So many directions to go ~ so little time. For the time being, I'm restricted to worktime for using the computer, as I'm temporarily out-of-commission with the one at home.
Kush ~ I could take your response and address it paragraph by paragraph, if not sentence by sentence. The bottom line will be that we each hold to our views
. I wondered what level of research project I would return to this morning, and laughingly thought to myself 
, "Well, this is what you get for saying, 'However, I would throw into the mix [in terms of the "best" sugar substitute], Stevia...' " [italics mine to highlight that Stevia was a suggestion for consideration by whomever might be looking for an alternative to processed sugar]. I also wondered if, having arrived home late last night, I might better have tried to dig up every bit of info I could find on Stevia, that I've come across and kept. Trying to respond appropriately from pure memory, without surfing or digging out resources, can be tough .
I think its erroneous that what these other cultures have to offer won't help with our American, daily grind. The only thing that processed sugar accomplishes is a momentary spike in energy, that ends up exhausting the system even more; and doing its level [teaspoon ] best to deplete what resources our system might have to cope! The saddest part is that our foods are packed [another sugar term ] full with processed sugar and a wide variety of other, hidden sugars, that are no better for us, either!
The snakebite issue is a very real one. There are many, deadly varieties of them in the Amazon, some venoms that even the best of modern medicine could not address. That's a whole, other discussion [or argument ~ however you choose to approach it]. I can't speak to all the environmental dangers of the entire Amazon. I only know that in the villages, wherein the Stevia that I'm aware of is produced, snakebite is the primary killer. The point is to be able to live a healthy life, and do your best to avoid those damn snakes ~ that are virtually everywhere! No one ever said that living in the jungle would be easy.
Ms. Kera [gladyoulikeit ] ~ I like the MRE's ~ too true. I presume you've heard how some "rescue" packages were literally dropped on people's heads, in error, during some of the previous conflicts....and how some brightly-coloured, yellow bombs [of some sort ~ maybe cluster?] were mistakenly grabbed, in the belief they were emergency rations......and as you've already suggested, those that acquired them in "normal," expected fashion were unable to eat them ~ their systems unable to digest such heavily-processed and packaged "food." The contents were laughable, when you considered the daily diet of those living in the Mid-East. Not sure if they suffered severe cramping, regurgitated, got diarrhea, or just what. But MRE's they were 
.
Not so sure where the responsibility leaves off and begins with regard to exploitation, when people come to the villages and appear sincere, with wanting to learn and exchange [a natural system for benefitting both sides, if done with honesty and ethics]. The tactics and details, et al, are available within the segment I listened to. This is not to say that [corrupt] governments there aren't ready to sacrifice the labours and resources of their indigenous people for their own, "personal" gain. Government at its worst.
Kush ~ Fortunate for us, the richness that comes from the centuries of natural composting, which has occurred with the floor of the Rainforest, serves well those fortunate enough to be able to ingest some of its many healing treasures.
First, in many ways, Paula is spot on. We ought to be grateful for the luxury of assessing and complaining ~ or whatever. Likewise, we would probably do better if food weren't such a high priority for us ~ check out breakfast/lunch/dinner buffets and McDonald's in the U.S., and see how high and wide are piled the plates. Furthermore, if life can't be about a treat once in awhile, what's life about? If the healthiest of bodies can't 'handle' that, then I say they weren't that healthy to begin with! "Eat to live, not live to eat!" Still working on that one, and couldn't agree more !
The reality, unfortunately, too, is that if bad food/pharmaceuticals won't kill you, something else will! Shall we talk about acid rain, the disappearing ozone layer, the fumes we breathe on the highways and byways, the cigarettes we smoke or around someone else's smoking? Oh, exhausting. The list goes on............ Truly, all we can do is what we, personally, consider our best ~ if we care. Some don't even care.
With regard to the burgers, there are chemicals, hormones, etc. that the cattle are fed; there's the actual cooking process to consider; there's the matter of whether your burger is primarily meat, or just the by-products; whatever-whatever. Organically grown, unprocessed, and "healthily"-prepared meat can be relatively benign in effect.
According to the Eat Right for Your Type book, some blood types have no problem with the digestion and utilization of meat. I don't happen to be one of those. I was avoiding it long before I read the book, on different principles. However, I was surprized to see that, for some, meat [from a health standpoint] is reportedly just fine! Of course, my primarily avoiding meat won't stop me from dying from any variety of other causes
! There's plenty of poisons to go around ~ just choose yours. And, don't think you won't on rare occasion see me chonking down on a burger from Burger King ~ cuz I will ~ that addiction to the taste of some dead flesh! Or, maybe it's just the condiments .
OK, time for work ~ this has been one long, early-morning break
.
~ Elizabeth/Lizzy/Lizzie ~ to you, Paula/Ms. Tysh ~ to you, Ms. Kera
Kush ~ I could take your response and address it paragraph by paragraph, if not sentence by sentence. The bottom line will be that we each hold to our views
. I wondered what level of research project I would return to this morning, and laughingly thought to myself , "Well, this is what you get for saying, 'However, I would throw into the mix [in terms of the "best" sugar substitute], Stevia...' " [italics mine to highlight that Stevia was a suggestion for consideration by whomever might be looking for an alternative to processed sugar]. I also wondered if, having arrived home late last night, I might better have tried to dig up every bit of info I could find on Stevia, that I've come across and kept. Trying to respond appropriately from pure memory, without surfing or digging out resources, can be tough .I think its erroneous that what these other cultures have to offer won't help with our American, daily grind. The only thing that processed sugar accomplishes is a momentary spike in energy, that ends up exhausting the system even more; and doing its level [teaspoon
] best to deplete what resources our system might have to cope! The saddest part is that our foods are packed [another sugar term ] full with processed sugar and a wide variety of other, hidden sugars, that are no better for us, either!The snakebite issue is a very real one. There are many, deadly varieties of them in the Amazon, some venoms that even the best of modern medicine could not address. That's a whole, other discussion [or argument
~ however you choose to approach it]. I can't speak to all the environmental dangers of the entire Amazon. I only know that in the villages, wherein the Stevia that I'm aware of is produced, snakebite is the primary killer. The point is to be able to live a healthy life, and do your best to avoid those damn snakes ~ that are virtually everywhere! No one ever said that living in the jungle would be easy. Ms. Kera [gladyoulikeit
] ~ I like the MRE's ~ too true. I presume you've heard how some "rescue" packages were literally dropped on people's heads, in error, during some of the previous conflicts....and how some brightly-coloured, yellow bombs [of some sort ~ maybe cluster?] were mistakenly grabbed, in the belief they were emergency rations......and as you've already suggested, those that acquired them in "normal," expected fashion were unable to eat them ~ their systems unable to digest such heavily-processed and packaged "food." The contents were laughable, when you considered the daily diet of those living in the Mid-East. Not sure if they suffered severe cramping, regurgitated, got diarrhea, or just what. But MRE's they were .Not so sure where the responsibility leaves off and begins with regard to exploitation, when people come to the villages and appear sincere, with wanting to learn and exchange [a natural system for benefitting both sides, if done with honesty and ethics]. The tactics and details, et al, are available within the segment I listened to. This is not to say that [corrupt] governments there aren't ready to sacrifice the labours and resources of their indigenous people for their own, "personal" gain. Government at its worst.
Kush ~ Fortunate for us, the richness that comes from the centuries of natural composting, which has occurred with the floor of the Rainforest, serves well those fortunate enough to be able to ingest some of its many healing treasures.
First, in many ways, Paula is spot on. We ought to be grateful for the luxury of assessing and complaining ~ or whatever. Likewise, we would probably do better if food weren't such a high priority for us ~ check out breakfast/lunch/dinner buffets and McDonald's in the U.S., and see how high and wide are piled the plates. Furthermore, if life can't be about a treat once in awhile, what's life about? If the healthiest of bodies can't 'handle' that, then I say they weren't that healthy to begin with! "Eat to live, not live to eat!" Still working on that one, and couldn't agree more
!The reality, unfortunately, too, is that if bad food/pharmaceuticals won't kill you, something else will! Shall we talk about acid rain, the disappearing ozone layer, the fumes we breathe on the highways and byways, the cigarettes we smoke or around someone else's smoking? Oh, exhausting. The list goes on............ Truly, all we can do is what we, personally, consider our best ~ if we care. Some don't even care.
With regard to the burgers, there are chemicals, hormones, etc. that the cattle are fed; there's the actual cooking process to consider; there's the matter of whether your burger is primarily meat, or just the by-products; whatever-whatever. Organically grown, unprocessed, and "healthily"-prepared meat can be relatively benign in effect.
According to the Eat Right for Your Type book, some blood types have no problem with the digestion and utilization of meat. I don't happen to be one of those. I was avoiding it long before I read the book, on different principles. However, I was surprized to see that, for some, meat [from a health standpoint] is reportedly just fine! Of course, my primarily avoiding meat won't stop me from dying from any variety of other causes
! There's plenty of poisons to go around ~ just choose yours. And, don't think you won't on rare occasion see me chonking down on a burger from Burger King ~ cuz I will ~ that addiction to the taste of some dead flesh! Or, maybe it's just the condiments .OK, time for work ~ this has been one long, early-morning break
.~ Elizabeth/Lizzy/Lizzie ~ to you, Paula/Ms. Tysh ~ to you, Ms. Kera
Folks complain too much. Or is it too much Leonard Cohen? And there is too much fascination on this board with the exotic. Or is it a remnant of hippie culture?
Re' slavery statement...that could have been better phrased by myself...I apologize for that..here is what I meant:
For the first time in history institutionalized slavery (that existed in every single culture) has been completely abolished in the 20th century. Some remnants remain illegally (e.g remnants of caste system in India, bonded labor in Africa but it takes time) Yes it is not a completely just system but look how far we have come. It is incredible that something that was so much a part of everyday life for 1000s of years is now almost completely gone.
Just like the ancient helmet evolved to Star Wars, ancient agricultural practices evolved to modern food engineering. It is a continuum. Even military research has its benefits...this very medium that we are communicating globally now was developed by military researchers to have a way of quick isolated communication in case of nuclear attacks (unless Partisan - male or female - can prove me otherwise).
Ok..I cannot continue indefinitely on this thread - you guys are making me depressed...but my bottomline is that I am quite content with life and food and with humanity in general although there are the occasional blips.
"I feel like a happy guy who has his rough days rather than vice versa"
- Bruce Springsteen
Re' slavery statement...that could have been better phrased by myself...I apologize for that..here is what I meant:
For the first time in history institutionalized slavery (that existed in every single culture) has been completely abolished in the 20th century. Some remnants remain illegally (e.g remnants of caste system in India, bonded labor in Africa but it takes time) Yes it is not a completely just system but look how far we have come. It is incredible that something that was so much a part of everyday life for 1000s of years is now almost completely gone.
Just like the ancient helmet evolved to Star Wars, ancient agricultural practices evolved to modern food engineering. It is a continuum. Even military research has its benefits...this very medium that we are communicating globally now was developed by military researchers to have a way of quick isolated communication in case of nuclear attacks (unless Partisan - male or female - can prove me otherwise).
Ok..I cannot continue indefinitely on this thread - you guys are making me depressed...but my bottomline is that I am quite content with life and food and with humanity in general although there are the occasional blips.
"I feel like a happy guy who has his rough days rather than vice versa"
- Bruce Springsteen
Aha! And, returning here, you remind me that I forgot to speak to that "slave" thing [going outside of the health/medicine realm], by saying that it depends on whether you're referring to overt slavery. Or, that which is oft effectively institutionalized, and thereby disguised, concealed, whatever. Also, another thought on that is just to merely look at the "working class" of this great country, and at the minimum wage, upon which few can even adequately live ~ [given all the resources and money that this country has to expend in other areas of the world]. Well, that's just another "take" on the issue of "slavery." The blatant reference you make, of course, holds true [at least in most places]. Who'd
"And there is too much fascination on this board with the exotic. Or is it a remnant of hippie culture?" Therein, lies the paradigm difference. Unlikely that any amount of fact or philosophy sharing would make a dent.
Who'duh thunk we were here to talk about muffins .
"And there is too much fascination on this board with the exotic. Or is it a remnant of hippie culture?" Therein, lies the paradigm difference. Unlikely that any amount of fact or philosophy sharing would make a dent.
Who'duh thunk we were here to talk about muffins
.Lizzytysh, Lightning - here is a suggestion......if you are so concerned about the wage slaves and working class around the world etc etc.
This Leonard Cohen Extravaganza in NYC 2004....why don't all you concerned folks simply withdraw from the Event, collect all the money that you would have spent on it ($ 125 or $ 150 + food+ lodging etc etc) and give it all to a worthy charitable organization. I personally contribute to Doctors Without Borders and here you can even do all this in the name of Leonard Cohen. They will even send a message to Leonard Cohen (or his mgmt) if you do that. I think just $ 35 takes care of all medical needs of a 3rd world individual for a month. But any worthy organization will do.
On the other hand imagine how you would contribute to the profits to all those evil companies (e.g. airlines, hotels, eating establishments, Bottomline etc etc)
As JFK said - "Ask not what.........."
This Leonard Cohen Extravaganza in NYC 2004....why don't all you concerned folks simply withdraw from the Event, collect all the money that you would have spent on it ($ 125 or $ 150 + food+ lodging etc etc) and give it all to a worthy charitable organization. I personally contribute to Doctors Without Borders and here you can even do all this in the name of Leonard Cohen. They will even send a message to Leonard Cohen (or his mgmt) if you do that. I think just $ 35 takes care of all medical needs of a 3rd world individual for a month. But any worthy organization will do.
On the other hand imagine how you would contribute to the profits to all those evil companies (e.g. airlines, hotels, eating establishments, Bottomline etc etc)
As JFK said - "Ask not what.........."
Kush, No-one seems to have solved the problem of human slavery, oppression and exploitation, even ownership of one human by another, not Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky or any of the others who thought they might have an answer. "Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rouseau. "Are the birds free from the chains of the skyway?" Bob Dylan. Not going to the 2004 event, putting a penny in a poor man's hat, or giving some money to a worthy charity is going to solve it. We are conscious enough of the problem to mask it and to make it look like slavery has been eliminated. But how many feel that their very lives are threatened if they don't carry out the will of another mostly for the others benefit?
I am glad you are comfortable in your Academic cocoon and satisfied with the status quo but be prepared for the knowledge that increaseth sorrow.
I am glad you are comfortable in your Academic cocoon and satisfied with the status quo but be prepared for the knowledge that increaseth sorrow.
So what is your solution Lightning you can't change the world you can only make a dent in it. Do we all have to clutch our chests and sob all our lives?
You do what you can when you can you can't do anymore than that.
You know that saying "if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem" we are all part of the problem. There is nothing wrong with being comfortable in your own cocoon or being satisfied with the status quo. I would hazard a guess that we all do something in our lives which we hope will change the world for the better even if it is just going on a March so our voices can be heard or sponsering a third world child.
You do what you can when you can you can't do anymore than that.
You know that saying "if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem" we are all part of the problem. There is nothing wrong with being comfortable in your own cocoon or being satisfied with the status quo. I would hazard a guess that we all do something in our lives which we hope will change the world for the better even if it is just going on a March so our voices can be heard or sponsering a third world child.
-
Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
Every person reading this thread will have an item/article of clothing/gadget/tool/ or similar, in their home/workplace, which will have been made in China. The chances are that that item will have been made by a prisoner or sweatshop employee. We are all guilty of enjoying the fruits of someone else's suffering. If you don't believe me, go and have a good look around. You will find something.
Byron 'sends his regards.'
Byron 'sends his regards.'
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
Three Cheers for Pooh, for who? For Pooh...
Three cheers for Bear! For where?, for Bear...
Ah, the bare truth! (bear tooth?) Hear, hear, Byron.
Kush~
The 'Errant Pedant' must strike again, I fear. The quote you attribute to JFK, i.e. "Ask not what your country can do for you...." was in fact Khalil Gibran in about 1917. I would highly recommend his mystic writings to all true Cohenites. Particularly "The Prophet" (available in small paperback).
~Makera
(I'll keep blowing my horn )
Ah, the bare truth! (bear tooth?) Hear, hear, Byron.
Kush~
The 'Errant Pedant' must strike again, I fear. The quote you attribute to JFK, i.e. "Ask not what your country can do for you...." was in fact Khalil Gibran in about 1917. I would highly recommend his mystic writings to all true Cohenites. Particularly "The Prophet" (available in small paperback).
~Makera
(I'll keep blowing my horn
)Kush ~
You've always seemed to me to be a really reasonable person overall. The concrete thing that concerned me [aside from the question I already posed above, regarding the hyperbole] about your posting was that it seemed to suggest, "Pay up or shut up." In other words, unless you're already actively contributing to some charity, you have no right to point out the conditions. I really don't think it should be necessary to scan my annual tax form for inclusion with my opinion or observations, to justify giving them. It's more of the "money talks" mentality that contributes to ignoring the poor.
It seems to me a more reasonable, less inflammatory question or statement might be, "I hope that you vote!" That is one of the few things we are granted the power to do to really try to change things on a large things. It also costs us nothing. I know that Doctors Without Borders, from everything I've heard, is a very worthwhile endeavour to contribute to. I've heard and read only good things. The other side of some[?]/many[?] ~ most certainly "some" ~ as I know you know, is the high percentage of the dollars received that go to salaries.
In some cases, you would do just as well to give to the poor man with the hat. At least you have a better sense of where your money is going. Of course, the other side of that is that hopefully it's not to the local drug dealer. You don't have as many roadsides in Manhattan as we do, however, a common-enough way of "begging" that I've seen around here is the person who stands at the corner of a busy intersection, or at the entrance/exit of an expressway, holding a placard that says, "Will Work For Food." However, if you ever tell them where you know there's a job, i.e. "day labor," or if you offer to take them for a meal, you're probably not going to get much ~ if any ~ response. What they're interested in is Cash. Yours. I can't speak from personal experience with this, as I've not done either one. However, I have been told directly by several, different people who have.
As for the upcoming Leonard Cohen Event 2004 in Manhattan, attending something of that nature is definitely not contributing to charity. However, it is fostering understanding and caring between people from various countries, worldwide. Many of us are guilty of "stereotyping" in various ways, some subtle and others not so subtle. Coming together at such an event can have a positive, ripple effect [more gatherings, more people, better feelings about people from different countries] that we can never know the "end" [if there ever is one] result. We never know who may know whom; who may end up where and doing what; who may know someone who ends up where and doing what; etc. ~ the way that ripple effects work [and, also at the heart of the "Never burn your bridges" adage]. To get to know, and to understand better, anything/anyone can create an openness that can have far-reaching effects. There may be a charity that helps one of their countries that, because you've met that person, may prompt you to contribute to it. Or, because you've met that person, if something occurs between our country and theirs, you may not be so in favour of cutting off aid to or bombing theirs.
Respectfully and sincerely, Kush ~
~ Elizabeth
You've always seemed to me to be a really reasonable person overall. The concrete thing that concerned me [aside from the question I already posed above, regarding the hyperbole] about your posting was that it seemed to suggest, "Pay up or shut up." In other words, unless you're already actively contributing to some charity, you have no right to point out the conditions. I really don't think it should be necessary to scan my annual tax form for inclusion with my opinion or observations, to justify giving them. It's more of the "money talks" mentality that contributes to ignoring the poor.
It seems to me a more reasonable, less inflammatory question or statement might be, "I hope that you vote!" That is one of the few things we are granted the power to do to really try to change things on a large things. It also costs us nothing. I know that Doctors Without Borders, from everything I've heard, is a very worthwhile endeavour to contribute to. I've heard and read only good things. The other side of some[?]/many[?] ~ most certainly "some" ~ as I know you know, is the high percentage of the dollars received that go to salaries.
In some cases, you would do just as well to give to the poor man with the hat. At least you have a better sense of where your money is going. Of course, the other side of that is that hopefully it's not to the local drug dealer. You don't have as many roadsides in Manhattan as we do, however, a common-enough way of "begging" that I've seen around here is the person who stands at the corner of a busy intersection, or at the entrance/exit of an expressway, holding a placard that says, "Will Work For Food." However, if you ever tell them where you know there's a job, i.e. "day labor," or if you offer to take them for a meal, you're probably not going to get much ~ if any ~ response. What they're interested in is Cash. Yours. I can't speak from personal experience with this, as I've not done either one. However, I have been told directly by several, different people who have.
As for the upcoming Leonard Cohen Event 2004 in Manhattan, attending something of that nature is definitely not contributing to charity. However, it is fostering understanding and caring between people from various countries, worldwide. Many of us are guilty of "stereotyping" in various ways, some subtle and others not so subtle. Coming together at such an event can have a positive, ripple effect [more gatherings, more people, better feelings about people from different countries] that we can never know the "end" [if there ever is one] result. We never know who may know whom; who may end up where and doing what; who may know someone who ends up where and doing what; etc. ~ the way that ripple effects work [and, also at the heart of the "Never burn your bridges" adage]. To get to know, and to understand better, anything/anyone can create an openness that can have far-reaching effects. There may be a charity that helps one of their countries that, because you've met that person, may prompt you to contribute to it. Or, because you've met that person, if something occurs between our country and theirs, you may not be so in favour of cutting off aid to or bombing theirs.
Respectfully and sincerely, Kush ~
~ Elizabeth
Byron ~
What you've said relates to exploitation, for sure. However, as a consumer [or whatever term fits us best], we do not know which items are from which manufacturing companies/sweat shops/prisons. It does not de facto make us culpable/an exploiter, by implication, if one/even some are in our possession. They, unfortunately, almost always lack the information necessary to research, to even determine their true origin. Generally "Made In China" is what you see. We could just as easily, I would think and hope, be supporting China's economy in free-trade fashion. Much is made of it [at least over here] when something is discovered to have been made/manufactured in a sweat shop. Organized boycotts have occurred, as a result.
If you contrast and compare [wages and work-hour expectations vs. cost-of-living and time for a "real" life], you can find, over here , that the wages paid in some cases are [at least] nearly equivalent to the sweat-shop phenomena.
We also have items manufactured in prisons here. They come under the label [at least in Florida] of "PRIDE." It amounts to, in my opinion, the prison system being a "big business" enterprise, at least as much, if not more, than anything related to corrections/punitory goals/rehabilitation/public protection.
~ Elizabeth
What you've said relates to exploitation, for sure. However, as a consumer [or whatever term fits us best], we do not know which items are from which manufacturing companies/sweat shops/prisons. It does not de facto make us culpable/an exploiter, by implication, if one/even some are in our possession. They, unfortunately, almost always lack the information necessary to research, to even determine their true origin. Generally "Made In China" is what you see. We could just as easily, I would think and hope, be supporting China's economy in free-trade fashion. Much is made of it [at least over here] when something is discovered to have been made/manufactured in a sweat shop. Organized boycotts have occurred, as a result.
If you contrast and compare [wages and work-hour expectations vs. cost-of-living and time for a "real" life], you can find, over here , that the wages paid in some cases are [at least] nearly equivalent to the sweat-shop phenomena.
We also have items manufactured in prisons here. They come under the label [at least in Florida] of "PRIDE." It amounts to, in my opinion, the prison system being a "big business" enterprise, at least as much, if not more, than anything related to corrections/punitory goals/rehabilitation/public protection.
~ Elizabeth