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Hi MM ~

I'm really glad to see you taking the initiative to do this. You'll be right there to continue participating in the Book of Longing thread, as well. Perhaps, Doron will come on over with the other regulars in that thread and join in on yours.

I got a slightly humourous visual when I read your explanatory comment about the purpose of the discussions, where you mention how these words are used in Leonard's poetry. I was thinking of those visual/perception exercises where you're supposed to count the number of times "of" is used in a paragraph. Do you know the ones I mean? It can be amazing how easily they can be oversighted.

Anyway, I'm certain some interesting discussions will emerge around these exercise that you've presented .


~ Lizzy

Hi Lizzy,
you shall see I've tried to start the "project", and you shall see that of course I am not thinking of counting the keywords. But clearly, this is a possible way of doing philology (now, that was a nasty one ). See you there, but for tonight I shall continue reading here in the forum: it seems I can learn a lot (not I shall not do any lesson), and I am very happy about this.
Bye
Mad Musicologist

Hi, all,
to return to the topic again:
Something keeps me puzzeling in Blessed is the Memory.
...but you lost them in your freedom
and you need him now you’re wild...
I would not have had any difficulty understanding those lines if the second one would run
and you need them now you’re wild
as „them“ refers to the memories (as I believe), but obviously Leonard Cohen had something different in his mind.
Bluntly asked: him? Whom – him ?
Thanks for your help.
Mad Musicologist

Hi M-M
When I listen to this song I hear the words:

but you lost him in your freedom
and you need him now you're wild

(if you are going on Tom's transcribing, I think he made a mistake)

More than that I can not help you with, I have no idea who he is (is it 'everybody's child', some sort of collective idea of offspring, is it Jesus Christ?). This song, to me, is a blessed meaningless list.

BM

To 'me' 'HIM' or 'HE' is like a 'higher power'. The higher power used by those in AA, or a higher power as in a spiritual sense. The power which governs your conscience. I'm not sure Leonard felt as though his travail was a singular journey. There was, for want of a better word, a 'spiritual entity', if you will , that was along for the ride. Sometimes this spiritual side would hold fast, other times, it wouldn't. Almost as though Leonard were both. The old 'devil on the left side', 'angel on the right'.

Or, it's just a poetic phrase that means nothing. Therein lies the beauty of LC. Still, I'm inclined to go with a more 'spiritual duality' - because of his religious upbringing/uncertainty, his father's death at an early age, and .... where's Tom Sakic when you need him?

..but you lost them in your freedom
and you need him now you’re wild...

Leonard lost much. His mother, yes, Marianne and 'the child' which he speaks of many times. 'They are in my spine' - something like that. Could it be, that given his father's death when Leonard was 9, his early 'shucking off' of some close people that he felt, later on, he needed some 'strength' (spiritually) or the strength of a long gone father to help him thru this period when he knew he was 'wild'?

That's my 2 bits, will someone raise me a quarter?

What do you think Lizzy? You've been around here long enough to have heard these old thoughts being tossed around - what's your feeling on the 'them' and 'he'? I'm not overly familiar with this piece and, frankly, I seldom try to dissect 'anything' Leonard writes, as on one day, it can bring you home, on another, it can send you back out into the world with the courage of a lion. I find that when in doubt 'just listen' and eventually, the pieces fall into place. But, what do we know? We weren't there, we can't read his mind, just his words, and take them as they're given.

Hi Linda
I like your thoughts about Leonard losing his father when he was young and needing him when he's 'wild'. It does make sense to me in the context of this song.

I have trouble picking up on, or relating to, the possible new age type spiritual allusions in Leonard's songs. I have a distrust of looking for answers outside of the self, calling to a higher power, side-stepping responsibility etc.

I do think that Leonard hung onto 'feelings' of some kind for his father (Lover, Lover, Lover, and Story of Isaac) for many years. As for side-stepping one's own self in lieu of a 'spiritual self', well, he's a monk, right? He's had spiritual longings, aspirations, concerns ... whatever... for many years. He had 'spiritual guidance' on the road with him in the '70's - that's going back, and they kept a relationship right up unto Mt. Baldy and into recent times. Much of his work, even going back as far as Suzanne has religious connotations. The image of Jesus was in that song. On his first record. This is the whole 'problem'. He's a paradox.

My feeling is that he was struggling with himself. He may have had problems in dealing with his father's death. But, overall, I think he's struggling with his own good/bad side. I call you and raise you a dime. Concerning his father - I understand the confusion that a child would have with a parent leaving them so young, but in Story of Isaac, the lyrics, to me, are ambiguous, at best. His father built an alter, looked over his shoulder, knew he wouldn't run away. This left a tremendous impact on Leonard. Is this metaphor for his father's death? Or, was there a bad relationship between them. I don't know as I haven't read much about that part of his life, being so stuck in his music. Interesting, though, to go back at this late date.

Sometimes I think we can read too much that is personal into Leonard’s words. Your comments made me think about ‘Blessed is the memory’ having some sort of personal reference. The title itself is a phrase associated with the dearly departed. It was something I hadn’t really thought about until you mentioned it.

But Leonard also likes to reference religious mythology, not as a reflection of his personal experience but in a way that universalizes an experience. I think ‘Story of Isaac’ is an example of this. I was introduced to the Old Testament at a young age and this story had an impact on me (much like fairy tales like ‘Little Red Riding Hood’ can), as did the story of Bathsheba and David. In the Children’s Bible both these stories had vivid pictures and ‘you saw her bathing on the roof’ describes the very picture I remember from this story. So, it's not about his father but 'fathers' in general sacrificing their children, as in governments sending young men to war.

‘Blessed is the memory’ evokes images that are vaguely familiar but I can’t put my finger on why. Many of Leonard’s songs and poems do the same thing, his words and images are strangely familiar, strangely appealing.

I don’t think I am even matching you Linda, as I said, I feel out of my depth in these discussions.

YOU think you're out of your depth??? I feel as though I'm just skimming the surface. Floating on my back, looking at the clouds. Those clouds are Leonard's poems/lyrics, and can be manipulated into any configuration one happens to be in the mood for.

You know? I've often said and thought that I don't really think it's 'right' to 'analyze' Leonard in the way that we do. He's a man, he has a life, and no matter what that life contains, he is gifted enough to mix the elements. A little truth here, a little hyperbole there, a dash of BS. Great! But, I think it's wrong to carve a song/poem into sections, then put them under the microscope. Like I said, some days the same lyrics will make me smile, on others, make me cry. He's speaking to us. I find that marvelous. We're all enamoured with him. We want to 'know' him. Scholars might try to, but 'we' or 'I' can only skim the surface.. That's good enough for me.

When I hear him sing "Waiting for the Miracle" or "Light as a Breeze", I want to die in his larynx! When I read his poetry, I don't need to share my thoughts. I don't think I have much more to contribute to this thread, other than to say that we all love him - we have our special points of interest. And, we'll never, ever, NEVER forget him, no matter what happens. Even if he winds up on ''Dancing with the Stars".

He's one of a kind. We don't have a secret chart that will get us to the heart of this or any other matter.
And like he said 'the poems say it all'. They're better when read personally or listened to alone anyway, I think. It's gives one a better perception of his intent. Like on Master Poems. But, sometimes, with the right people, it's wonderful sharing a mutual interest. 'Interest' - 'obsession' is more accurate.

Anyway, I've enjoyed this public foray into the heart of the matter, and MM can carry on. It is soooo worth it to either appreciate Leonard as a scholar would, or simply appreciate his work like a starry-eyed teeny-bopper. I'm of the latter, and I don't regret it.

Hi Linda and Madonna ~

I almost always read the postings, by section, top to bottom... then, the same once I get inside a thread. So, at 4:45 AM , this is the first one I came to and went first to the bottom and then back up and up and up until I got to the first one with today's date and, I must say, you guys have been busy , and what do you need me for ?? I don't think I could have added a thing... from memory or otherwise .

It has seemed to me that Leonard's songs are a mix of personal and spiritual, the same as he has seemed to always be. It's rare that I feel you can discount either one. I love all of both of your thoughts on this song and I refuse to add anything. Speaking of the title, Linda, you're calling on me for my memory ? Well, your discussion is great, as is, for me. I'm going to make myself a cup o' coffee .

Back at 6:25 AM now. Went to feed my neighbour's dogs and in a public tv ad for the Nova program, some comments were made:

~ A lightning strike is hotter than the surface of the sun. [My question ~ So, how does anyone ever survive one?]
~ The universe has no edge and no center.

These two statements remind me of trying to analyze Leonard's songs. His songs are nebulous, ambiguous, and paradoxical, by intent, and filled with vivid imagery. Brilliant conundrums. Before I ever learned of any Internet sites on Leonard, I often felt I intuited the meanings in his songs... objectively, or subjectively, with what they mean for me. I still feel that this is often true for many people, and the reason that it seems many don't feel the need to analyze. I've learned much about Leonard, though, through others' analyses of his songs and poems. So, that's fine with me. Well, more than fine, actually. As already said here, the spiritual elements work to make his songs universal... and the title/content of this particular song make the personal elements of it very reasonable.

However, I can still listen to his songs from my original position of knowing nothing about the person who wrote them, or his possible/probable intent, and they're still as personally meaningful for me as they ever were. Now, that's a song that will last at least 30 years... and the Volkswagen Beetle has always been one of my very favourite cars. Some have already done that and the years are continuing to accumulate. Others promise to do the very same. Many years ago, Leonard set out with a goal and, now, many years later, he is still achieving it .


Love,
Lizzy

lizzytysh wrote: ~ A lightning strike is hotter than the surface of the sun. [My question ~ So, how does anyone ever survive one?]
~ The universe has no edge and no center.

Many years ago, Leonard set out with a goal and, now, many years later, he is still achieving it.

Lightning tends to flow around the surface of objects it hits, rather than go through them. And many who survive lightning strikes were actually subjected only to near misses.

When we say the universe is expanding, the best analogy is to think of the universe as the surface of a balloon that is gradually inflating. The surface of a balloon has no edge and no centre.

I can't imagine LC having a goal. Buddhist enlightenment demands the abandonment of all earthly goals. In fact, I can't imagine any poet having a goal. Surely what we all admire in a poet is the way he or she is so much more free than ourselves, we who are held down by the petty requirements of everyday life?

Thanks for explaining the 'scientifics' of lightning strikes and analogizing the concept of the universe for my better understanding.

Now, that's a song that will last at least 30 years... and the Volkswagen

Leonard commented once that he wanted to write songs that, like Volkswagens, would last 30 years. That was the goal I was referencing. He's been rather meticulous in his manner of achieving it... i.e. taking 10 years to write a song with such beauty, exactness, and precision that it will last more than 30 years.


~ Lizzy

I think I agree with your comment as Leonard is now, Hydriot. But, I seem to recall interviews and quotes from his early days, that he 'didn't want to work, but he wanted to be paid well for his work' - words to that effect. He picked up the guitar as there was no money in poetry alone. I think he had a goal. To stay alive, and make a few bucks doing something he enjoyed doing. No teaching for Leonard. No. A free-wheeling lifestyle, and make some money to live life well.

Now, Leonard is a different man. He's been changed by life, by his experience at Mt. Baldy. Still, a man has to live. After being ripped for his retirement money, I guess there is some kind of 'plan' to be able to continue his life without want or need. We 'do' admire poets/authors for their seeming lack of 'being tied down'. No punching the clock. But, writing is a 'discipline'. One still has to sit in front of the computer or desk and make or allow the words to come. It can't be easy. Esp. when the deadline looms near.

Oh. As usual, Lizzy beat us to the post. Oh, well. That's my opinion. And I stand by it, dern it all! Just as well, I would have rambled on for another half page or so.

Actually, you fleshed yours out much better than I did mine, Linda. They work best together, near as I can tell. Dern it all, anyway .


~ Lizzy