leonardcohenforum.com

Posted: **Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:06 pm**

Do you honestly believe that the sole driving force in the mind of the college killer was to make the news and the newspaper front pages?

Hi Red Poppy,

Although I agree with some comments you have made on this issue.However I think you under estimate the power of beliveing in death you wil be remembered forver, you will have your name know all over the world. You are thinking with logic, This person was not. I also do not belive it was his sole driving force but a strong one.

In truth the media (or parts of the media) have often been the only watchdogs over government and the military and the work of journalists has brought about great change for the better.[/quote

This is true but unfortunently not in our own country.... There are some who do and are very good but there are so many sheep.

Posted: **Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:47 pm**

Kush wrote:I'm sorry I cannot think of two more inappropriate lines for the victim's kin to hear popping out from national TV on the day of the tragedy than

'As for me, all I've ever seemed to learn from love
Is how to shoot at someone who outdrew you.'

I sincerely hope whichever version was aired did not contain the above. somehow seems more suited to the crazy killer's life.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virgin ... index.html

Those lyrics were not played on the program and, I agree, they would have grated during the showing of the sad images. But in listening to Hallelujah myself later, they really did have a strong meaning. Also, I felt Hallelujah was used in a rather comforting way. As I remember, a kaleidoscope of memorials, students aiding one another, families reuniting and hopeful scenes were shown as it played, not the nightmare of the shooting siege.

Posted: **Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:03 pm**

lizzytysh wrote: Yes, you're right, Kush... that lyric would be particularly painful for people to hear; but its being there [and likely not being included... at least not in the segment I saw and heard] does not make the song any less appropriate for this situation. It is ironic, perhaps, that there is a line exactly suited to that of the killer... he clearly felt that he was 'outdrawn' in status, advantage, acceptance, or whatever by his victims. Even though he was also delusional regarding all of this; as people did so much to try to reach out to him, but his mental status precluded his ability to accept it... in the end, it seemed he tried to even the score.
[Lizzy

Forgot to mention that I agree with your very eloquent (as usual) analysis of this guy and how those lyrics truly do spell it out.

Posted: **Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:49 pm**

Also, I felt Hallelujah was used in a rather comforting way. As I remember, a kaleidoscope of memorials, students aiding one another, families reuniting and hopeful scenes were shown as it played, not the nightmare of the shooting siege.

Yes, this is exactly as it was; and with the delicate voices of the four Norwegians, it was all the more poignant and conveyed a sense of comfort in the face of helplessness.

~ Lizzy

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:31 am**

lizzytysh wrote:Didn't it used to be that Britain disallowed any criminals from writing books regarding their crimes, so that they could not benefit from it financially? I believe we've now adopted that same thing. However, I was also thinking that Britain disallowed the media blitzes surrounding these kinds of tragic events. They're put away and never heard about or from.

This is true. Recent legislation outlaws 'cheque-book journalism' so far as criminals are concerned and has wide approval. The driving force behind publication is always the competition between media outlets for ratings. So achieve a consensus amongst the tabloids as to what constitutes bad taste, back it up with law, and the problem evaporates.

The most dramatic example of this consensus working well has been the disappearance into obscurity of the killer of John Lennon (whose name I will not mention, out of respect for this convention), thanks very largely to strong representations over many years from Yoko Ono.

And the house in Gloucester where Fred and Rosemary West tortured and murdered so many hitch-hikers was actually demolished!

As to the second point (media blitzes) our courts have draconian powers to muzzle the press, which would certainly be against the US Constitution. But there is a healthy debate about these powers and their use. For example, the long-held anonymity of rape victims is being questioned now, after a particularly nasty framing of a young man who of course himself had no anonymity.

Children are always protected by anonymity, even when they are killers, but intriguingly there is a move to open family courts to the public now, on the ground that justice must be SEEN to be done wherever possible.

The reason I feel If It Be Your Will is more appropriate is the randomness of such killings. Who dies and who lives depends entirely on which room the killer does or does not choose to enter. While there are some families devastated by the events in Virginia, there are at least as many others feeling more alive than ever today, because their classroom happened not to be chosen.

I do believe that the prospect of publicity is a major factor in these rampages, for why else try to rack up the bodycount? Why not simply take some pills and kill oneself quietly?

On the other hand, it is helpful to know something about the background of such killers, if only to try to spot similar trends in others. The factor in his life which struck me forcefully is that he was severely bullied at school. That is not an excuse for what he did, but it is at least an explanation.

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:18 am**

MFL - there are sheep in every field (except the ones that have just horses and cows) but the media here and elsewhere has a high proportion of people who are serious in their intent.
And I really find the dismissal on this forum of "the media" as though all reporters were cheque-book mongers to be cheap, slipshod and unworthy. It sounds like Liveline on a bad Monday - "the meeja this and the meeja that." That's an Irish reference that our friends overseas may miss but you'll get my drift MFL.

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:22 am**

Red Poppy he sent out a complete media package to NBC! Think about the planning and time involved in preparing a DVD with 27 video clips, 43 still photos and an 1800 word essay over 23 pages. The chilling fact is that he took a break, once he had commenced his planned action, to take this package to the post office and send it. He must have done this calmly, despite what he had just done, as he did not draw any attention to himself before continuing with his mission.
So yes, I do believe that a major driving force for his actions was the celebrity he has now achieved. It is very hard for decent people to understand the minds of people with anti-social personality disorders but they have a complete disregard for the rights of others and they do have a need for admiration.

I have read that the NBC News president faced a “tough call” in deciding how much to air of the gunman’s video, letter and photos to air. There is a difference between reporting the news and sensationalizing it. Shouldn’t a police investigation and the needs of the victims and their families come before everything else? Papers here have published every word of his letter and dozens of the photos, the TV has shown small bites of the video clips over and over again and I don’t think it is right.

Quote:
I agree that one cannot kill with roses; and it is those that need to replace the easy acquisition of hand and automatic guns in our society. Of course, it's a polyanna panacea to even consider; but as long as the mind and spirit are scrambling to understand even anything here, at least in that thought, they can find some rest.

Lizzy do you mean that gun control is a ‘polyanna panacea’? "The right of the people to keep and bear arms" supposedly enshrined in the American constitution dates back to 1787. We live in a different world now and other countries have proved that gun control can work.

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:44 am**

"There is a difference between reporting the news and sensationalizing it. Shouldn’t a police investigation and the needs of the victims and their families come before everything else? Papers here have published every word of his letter and dozens of the photos, the TV has shown small bites of the video clips over and over again and I don’t think it is right. "

I agree with you there Blonde Madonna but I cannot accept, as others claim, that the media is a self-serving and creative process. Is the media to blame that this man sent that material?
Yes someone decided to poublish it in detail - wrongly I believe - but that was one arm of the media and my worry is that all reporters are getting tarred with the same brush.
That, I find, most unfair.

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:29 am**

Hi Madonna ~

I wasn't referring to gun control vs. the right to bear arms, as we generally know either one to be. When I said polyanna and panacea, I was referring exactly to exactly what I'd hyperbolically said, suggesting a literal replacing of guns with roses, which was [italics mine for isolating]...

. . . roses; and it is those that need to replace the easy acquisition of hand and automatic guns in our society. Of course, it's a polyanna panacea to even conside. . .

Gun control may work somewhere else, but it's certainly not a model of success here. It may be the shoot first, ask questions later mentality here... I've no idea.

Here's an article, with a link to another by Ted Nugent:

News:

Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms
POSTED: 11:25 a.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
By Tom Plate
Special to CNN

Adjust font size:

Editor's note: Tom Plate, former editor of the editorial pages of the Los Angeles Times, is a professor of communication and policy studies at UCLA. He is author of a new book, "Confessions of an American Media Man."

Read an opposing take on gun control from Ted Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- Most days, it is not at all hard to feel proud to be an American. But on days such as this, it is very difficult.
The pain that the parents of the slain students feel hits deep into everyone's hearts. At the University of California, Los Angeles, students are talking about little else. It is not that they feel especially vulnerable because they are students at a major university, as is Virginia Tech, but because they are (to be blunt) citizens of High Noon America.
"High Noon" is a famous film. The 1952 Western told the story of a town marshal (played by the superstar actor Gary Cooper) who is forced to eliminate a gang of killers by himself. They are eventually gunned down.
The use of guns is often the American technique of choice for all kinds of conflict resolution. Our famous Constitution, about which many of us are generally so proud, enshrines -- along with the right to freedom of speech, press, religion and assembly -- the right to own guns. That's an apples and oranges list if there ever was one.
Not all of us are so proud and triumphant about the gun-guarantee clause. The right to free speech, press, religion and assembly and so on seem to be working well, but the gun part, not so much.
Let me explain. Some misguided people will focus on the fact that the 23-year-old student who killed his classmates and others at Virginia Tech was ethnically Korean. This is one of those observations that's 99.99 percent irrelevant. What are we to make of the fact that he is Korean? Ban Ki-moon is also Korean! Our brilliant new United Nations secretary general has not only never fired a gun, it looks like he may have just put together a peace formula for civil war-wracked Sudan -- a formula that escaped his predecessor.
So let's just disregard all the hoopla about the race of the student responsible for the slayings. These students were not killed by a Korean, they were killed by a 9 mm handgun and a .22-caliber handgun.
In the nineties, the Los Angeles Times courageously endorsed an all-but-complete ban on privately owned guns, in an effort to greatly reduce their availability. By the time the series of editorials had concluded, the newspaper had received more angry letters and fiery faxes from the well-armed U.S. gun lobby than on any other issue during my privileged six-year tenure as the newspaper's editorial page editor.
But the paper, by the way, also received more supportive letters than on any other issue about which it editorialized during that era. The common sense of ordinary citizens told them that whatever Americans were and are good for, carrying around guns like costume jewelry was not on our Mature List of Notable Cultural Accomplishments.
"Guns don't kill people," goes the gun lobby's absurd mantra. Far fewer guns in America would logically result in far fewer deaths from people pulling the trigger. The probability of the Virginia Tech gun massacre happening would have been greatly reduced if guns weren't so easily available to ordinary citizens.
Foreigners sometimes believe that celebrities in America are more often the targets of gun violence than the rest of us. Not true. Celebrity shootings just make better news stories, so perhaps they seem common. They're not. All of us are targets because with so many guns swishing around our culture, no one is immune -- not even us non-celebrities.
When the great pop composer and legendary member of the Beatles John Lennon was shot in 1980 in New York, many in the foreign press tabbed it a war on celebrities. Now, some in the media will declare a war on students or some-such. This is all misplaced. The correct target of our concern needs to be guns. America has more than it can possibly handle. How many can our society handle? My opinion is: as close to zero as possible.
Last month, I was robbed at 10 in the evening in the alley behind my home. As I was carrying groceries inside, a man with a gun approached me where my car was parked. The gun he carried featured one of those red-dot laser beams, which he pointed right at my head.
Because I'm anything but a James Bond type, I quickly complied with all of his requests. Perhaps because of my rapid response (it is called surrender), he chose not to shoot me; but he just as easily could have. What was to stop him?
This occurred in Beverly Hills, a low-crime area dotted with upscale boutiques, restaurants and businesses -- a city best known perhaps for its glamour and celebrity sightings.
Oh, and police tell me the armed robber definitely was not Korean. Not that I would have known one way or the other: Basically the only thing I saw or can remember was the gun, with the red dot, pointed right at my head.
A near-death experience does focus the mind. We need to get rid of our guns.
What is your take on this commentary? E-mail us
The opinions expressed in this commentary are those of the writer. This is part of an occasional series of commentaries on CNN.com that offers a broad range of perspectives, thoughts and points of view.
Read Ted Nugent's take on gun control here: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster

Well, it was a link when I copied it... now, the link aspect seems to have disappeared.

Hope that helps clear up the misunderstanding.

~ Lizzy

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:42 am**

I've not heard about his being bullied in school, yet. The accounts from college roommates are of attempts to include him. His grandmother noted that when they left Korea when he was 8 years old, they knew that he had mental problems... he wouldn't even talk to them, his own family. This appears to be a long-standing, psychological aberration that never got adequately addressed by anyone. There appears to be a huge loophole in our system, in that unless he threatened someone and/or some other 'extreme' something, everyone's hands remain tied, in the sense of actually forcing him into treatment... which is voluntary here, unless someone's institutionalized. It's been discussed here how his symptoms would not be sufficient to have taken up a bed in an institution, one that would be more greatly needed by someone else.

He was delusional and regressed into extreme paranoia. Yes... the media aspects were definitely there, as perhaps part of a constellation of symptoms, but they were by no means the whole of them. I don't question that anyone who's able to coldly compile and dispatch, during their killing break, their own press packet had in mind being memorialized into history as a mass murderer. For someone who feels impotent, this is a way to make a mark when nothing else would.

"There is a difference between reporting the news and sensationalizing it. Shouldn’t a police investigation and the needs of the victims and their families come before everything else? Papers here have published every word of his letter and dozens of the photos, the TV has shown small bites of the video clips over and over again and I don’t think it is right."

I agree with this... extremely poor and cruel judgement call. One of the things that is so devastating to the families of victims is that the perpetrators end up being the ones who are remembered, and their loved ones are relatively soon forgotten. A life snuffed and forgotten as thought it had never happened; and the killer etched into the annals of time.

The issues of psychopathology are too deep and convoluted to simply understand them as though A = B and B = C; therefore, A = C.

~ Lizzy

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:10 am**

Here's the Nugent article:

Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
POSTED: 5:26 p.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
More on CNN TV: Ted Nugent participates in a roundtable discussion on gun control tonight on "Glenn Beck," Headline Prime, 7 p.m. ET.
By Ted Nugent
Special to CNN

Editor's note: Rock guitarist Ted Nugent has sold more than 30 million albums. He's also a gun rights activist and serves on the board of directors of the National Rifle Association. His program, "Ted Nugent Spirit of the Wild," can be seen on the Outdoor Channel.

Read an opposing take on gun control from journalist Tom Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms

WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.

At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.

Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun ban. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

What is your take on this commentary? E-mail us

The opinions expressed in this commentary are those of the writer. This is part of an occasional series of commentaries on CNN.com that offers a broad range of perspectives, thoughts and points of view.

Read an opposing point of view from journalist Tom Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms

Your responses

CNN.com asked readers for their thoughts on this commentary. Below you will find a small selection of these e-mails, some of which have been edited for length and spelling:

Travis Carollo, Sullivan, Missouri
I agree 100 percent. The only thing anti-guns laws will prevent is normal law-abiding citizens from owning them. Criminals will always find a way to obtain a gun. They are criminals. They will never follow the law. Way to go Nuge!

Doug, Houston, Texas
Frankly I got sick in my stomach reading Mr. Nugent's article. According to Mr. Nugent, the solution is very simple: All citizens should be armed and the world would be a much safer place. Let's take a moment to think about the implication of this. The criminals are not dumb. If we average law-abiding citizens were allowed to freely purchase weapons, the criminals would do everything they could to ensure they have the upper hands on their firepower. Of course, we would immediately do the same to regain our upper hands. What then would you think the criminals would do in return?

Kathy Culley, Virginia Beach, Virginia
Ted has hit the nail on the head. Making the right to bear arms illegal is only illegal for the "good" guys. The "bad" guys will always have access through their illegal ways. Just thinking that someone may be carrying a gun might deter would-be killers out of their heinous crime. Way to go Ted for speaking out for our American rights!

Nita Olson, Florence, Mississippi
I believe he is right! I'm not fond of guns, but I believe we should have the right to bear arms and protect our loved ones. I, for one, would not hesitate to shoot someone trying to enter my house, car, etc. Reason being you ask? If the "suspect" is entering my home, armed with a gun, then I feel no remorse about shooting someone who is coming into my "zone" with the intent of hurting/killing me or family and taking things that I have worked hard for and will not give it up "because it can be replaced."

Joe Russo, Staten Island, New York
Ted Nugent really has a twisted way of looking at the violence that seems to regularly plague us. As a hunter and gun owner, I do believe in our right to bear arms. However, that right should not include hand guns and assualt weapons.

Josh Munford, Lincoln, Nebraska
Simply stated, Ted Nugent is right. The fact of the matter is that these anti-gun activists have created more problems. Evil will always find a way and giving them more opportunity by creating "anti" laws in all reality protects them. It's common sense to a criminal: "Law-abiding citizens won't be prepared here or here or here, so I'll be able to create the most destruction, panic and chaos there." What are you thinking by creating anti-gun laws, and gun free zones?

Linda, Plymouth, Michigan
To back up Ted's points, when have we ever heard of a gunman killing 32 people in a police station? How about at an Army Base in Michigan? Nope. How about at the local shooting range? Tons of guns there, you'd think there'd be mass killing there every other weekend with all the guns...oh wait...at all those places the victims would be armed and would shoot back. An armed gunman wouldn't get out more than one shot, if that, before being stopped.

John Thatamanil, Nashville, Tennessee
"A God-given right to bear guns?" Dear Mr. Nugent, which God, pray tell, are you speaking about? Surely not Jesus, you know, the one who said, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword." Frankly, I find Mr. Nugent whatever God he claims to worship terribly frightening. Stick to rock, Mr. Nugent, you are terrifically good at that!

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:19 am**

My very personal prayers go out to these people.

Cho family apology: We feel 'hopeless, helpless and lost'
POSTED: 7:42 p.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
Story Highlights• Through lawyer, Cho's sister issued Cho family's first public comment
• It said family didn't know Cho could be so violent, offers prayers for victims
• Family's whereabouts unclear; authorities said they're under protection

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (AP) -- The family of Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui told The Associated Press on Friday that they feel "hopeless, helpless and lost," and "never could have envisioned that he was capable of so much violence."

"He has made the world weep. We are living a nightmare," said a statement issued by Cho's sister, Cho Sun-Kyung, on the family's behalf.

It was the Chos' first public comment since the 23-year-old student killed 32 people and committed suicide Monday in the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history. (Read full statement)

Wade Smith, a lawyer in Raleigh, North Carolina, provided the statement to the AP after the Cho family reached out to him. Smith said the family would not answer any questions, and neither would he.

"Our family is so very sorry for my brother's unspeakable actions. It is a terrible tragedy for all of us," said Cho Sun-Kyung, a 2004 Princeton University graduate who works as a contractor for a U.S. State Department office that oversees American aid for Iraq.

"We pray for their families and loved ones who are experiencing so much excruciating grief. And we pray for those who were injured and for those whose lives are changed forever because of what they witnessed and experienced," she said. "Each of these people had so much love, talent and gifts to offer, and their lives were cut short by a horrible and senseless act."

The family's whereabouts are unclear. But authorities said they are under law enforcement protection.

The statement was issued during a statewide day of mourning for the victims. Silence fell across the Virginia Tech campus at noon and bells tolled in churches nationwide in memory of the victims.

"We are humbled by this darkness. We feel hopeless, helpless and lost. This is someone that I grew up with and loved. Now I feel like I didn't know this person," Cho's sister said. "We have always been a close, peaceful and loving family. My brother was quiet and reserved, yet struggled to fit in. We never could have envisioned that he was capable of so much violence."

She said her family will cooperate fully with investigators and "do whatever we can to help authorities understand why these senseless acts happened. We have many unanswered questions as well."

Wendy Adams, whose niece, Leslie Sherman, was killed in the massacre, said of the family's statement: "I'm not so generous to be able to forgive him for what he did. But I do feel for the family. I do feel sorry for them."

"I do believe they're living a nightmare," she added.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said: "Based on this sorrowful statement, it is apparent that the family grieves with everyone in the world."

Cho's name was given as "Cho Seung-Hui" by police earlier this week. But the Cho family statement rendered his name as "Seung-Hui Cho."

During the campus memorial earlier Friday, hundreds of somber students and area residents, most wearing the school's maroon and orange colors, stood with heads bowed at a memorial on the parade ground in front of Norris Hall, where all but two of the victims died. Along with the bouquets and candles was a sign reading, "Never forgotten."

"It's good to feel the love of people around you," said Alice Lo, a Virginia Tech graduate and friend of Jocelyne Couture-Nowak, a French instructor killed in the rampage. "With this evil, there is still goodness."

The mourners gathered in front of stone memorials, each adorned with a basket of tulips and an American flag. There were 33 stones -- one for each victim and Cho.

"His family is suffering just as much as the other families," said Elizabeth Lineberry, who will be a freshman at Virginia Tech in the fall.

President Bush wore an orange and maroon tie in a show of support. The White House said he also asked top officials at the Justice, Health and Human Services and Education departments to travel the country, talk to educators, mental health experts and others, and compile a report on how to prevent similar tragedies.

Seven people hurt in the rampage remained hospitalized, at least one in serious condition.

I couldn't help but notice the inversion of the two numbers ~ that a 23-year-old person killed 32 people.

"We pray for their families and loved ones who are experiencing so much excruciating grief. And we pray for those who were injured and for those whose lives are changed forever because of what they witnessed and experienced," she said. "Each of these people had so much love, talent and gifts to offer, and their lives were cut short by a horrible and senseless act."

. . .

"We are humbled by this darkness. We feel hopeless, helpless and lost. This is someone that I grew up with and loved. Now I feel like I didn't know this person," Cho's sister said. "We have always been a close, peaceful and loving family. My brother was quiet and reserved, yet struggled to fit in. We never could have envisioned that he was capable of so much violence."

These people are suffering deeply and deserve every ounce of love and compassion that people are able to extend to them. This is all so heartbreaking.

I am so tired of seeing his face ~ in photos and in my mind's eyes. I want to replace the images with those of the beautiful people whose lives he commandeered for all earthly time.

May they now rest in the arms of G~d. May he rest there also. May everyone know peace.

~ Lizzy

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:33 am**

Those lyrics were not played on the program and, I agree, they would have grated during the showing of the sad images. But in listening to Hallelujah myself later, they really did have a strong meaning.

Yes of course I agree they have a deeper meaning....but its not something you want grieving relatives to hear who may or may not be aware of the song and are very very unlikely to have studied the lyrics in depth.

On the other hand, it is helpful to know something about the background of such killers, if only to try to spot similar trends in others. The factor in his life which struck me forcefully is that he was severely bullied at school. That is not an excuse for what he did, but it is at least an explanation.

There is a theory that you can find a reason for everything a man ever does in his life - probably quite true. But society cannot function by ceaselessly looking for explanations for extreme acts....
although as you say it would be useful to spot similar trends in others. I did not hear so much about bullying as about his rejection of all attempts by others to include...which in turn may lead to bullying and vice versa. chicken and egg.

For a start a very strict enforcement of gun control to individuals with even the slightest history of mental instability is required.

p.s. edited out a quote because it was not sufficiently relevant

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:50 am**

For a start a very strict enforcement of gun control to individuals with even the slightest history of mental instability is required.

I agree. They were talking on the radio today about the lapses. The judge ordered... but then there was no follow-up and no communication to the university of the situation that could have resulted in continuity of care. Such a major lapse in essential communication. So many holes that it begins to resemble mosquito netting. Of course, there's a lot of "Monday morning quarterbacking" going on and evidence that "Hindsight is 20/20" ~ still... there are major lapses in the systems here that need addressing.

~ Lizzy

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:49 am**

Lizzy your multiple posts have only left me more confused. Do you support what Nugent has to say? Is that why you posted it? Personally I found his use of emotive, 'cool' language offensive and his list of anecdotes highly suspect. However I respect you views whatever they are, I just don't think you can fence sit on this one.

The media, particularly visual media, has incredible influence and power in our society and this translates to a responsibility to use that power and influence thoughtfully. Copy-cat killings are a very real consequence of the coverage given to these events (this person referred to the Columbine killers by name) and the NBC, by accepting and using the material sent to them, is encouraging this type of behaviour.

I read the papers and there are many examples of thought provoking journalism that I value and I guess that the information we need on this event is going to come after the front page pictures have been exhausted and there has been time for investigation, digestion and reflection.

leonardcohenforum.com

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