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Aren't you glad I waded in with all this hoo haa

Oh, Witty, why wade when you can fly?

I have reached the end of my road in this discussion. For me, what i have spoken of is a matter of Faith in the greatest sense of the word. It is tried and true and what my soul recognizes and embraces.

The end.

regards,
L

Dear Witty ~

I feel you're right in what you're saying. Knowing that, at times, even the blind can truly see tells me much about all of the unknowns we still 'labour' beneath. So, many realms unseen.

Thanks for your two-way street and chicken-egg analogies. They're fitting.

If I chose to include you, John, on considerations I've been forcing myself to make lately, I'd be asking you what 'lessons' you feel you may have agreed, with Mr. W., prior to coming into this existence, to learn through him in this lifetime. It's challenging. This is an exercise within a belief system, which I'm sure you know; yet, its application can be nonetheless very difficult, when we have to force ourselves to consider certain happenings from this soul-agreement perspective.

Love,
Elizabeth

John there are emotional and sensitive people and there are logical people. I tried to imagine myself in your position and I would have been upset for 20 minutes at the most then I would have rationalised it was there any credence in what he said were his comments totally unfounded.

Where is Kloberdanzian?

Paula, sometimes people are both logical and sensitive. I was myself very quiet and shy most of my life. At the age of about 10 there were 2 teachers who upset me, one who continually made me the butt of his silly jokes, and another who mistook my shyness for dumb insolence! Another teacher was encouraging and helped me to cope until I changed schools at 11, and school life improved. I cannot totally change my sensitve nature, but am logical enough to not allow it to dominate my life. I tend to stand on the sidelines and avoid confrontation a lot of the time, but I can be quite assertive when I know I'm right!

John, I'm glad you got over that incident long ago and made a success of your life. I saw you perform in New York, but didn't get to talk to you, but that's not unusual, there were lots of people I never got to talk to, still shy I guess!

Margaret you are quite right you can be logical and sensitive, I am shy too although you probably wouldn't believe it Perhaps logical is not the word I am searching for. Maybe detached is a better word. I feel detached from certain feelings. Not in a psychopathic way I hasten to add. I can just let certain emotions wash over me like anger or revenge.

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Dear John ~

I had no idea that "John K." was you, until I saw Margaret's comment. I have no idea how she knew it, or, conversely, how I missed it. The latter contains many possibilities; it's just settling on which one.

Thank you for your precious words. A kiss on your cheek back to you, John.

Yes, there really is muscle memory, and they hold on to many things; and the muscles and the brain are linked. I've always wanted to get Rolfing done, but we have only one practitioner in the area and, for a couple reasons, the person was recommended against. So, I haven't rushed into it. It's costly, as well. However, the diagrams in the brochures and articles are very impressive, and I don't need to be convinced of its validity. I remember getting some deep-tissue massage from the massage therapist who worked in conjunction with my chiropractor [in Key West], and when he went deep beneath my shoulder blades, I spontaneously began to cry. It wasn't from physical pain, so I was confused by it. He explained muscle memory to me at that point. Since then, I've wanted the emotional release from old hurts that can be effected through Rolfing. I've asked around about the pain levels/thresholds, and it seems there's really no way around it. Oh, what wonderful release, though.

I've recently been getting some energy work done, related to my grieving, and am finding it helpful. Gratifyingly, my knee has been responding positively, as well.

I can also testify to the still-water-deep Margaret from our time together in New York City .

Love,
Elizabeth

John take everything I say with a large pinch of salt But even at that age it wouldn't have gutted me.

Well, Hi Paula !

And, John, I think maybe I should've said I didn't know that you were John K! Or, if I did, I'd forgotten the connection between you and your name here [the more likely of the two, given my stellar memory ].

Love,
Elizabeth

Well Paula and Pete,

that settles it, I really must update my avatar picture too. This may take some time.

What a sultrily sulky photo, Paula! That's great ! The only such one I have myself didn't look like me, even at the time ! I took it of myself, besides, so how sultrily could I be looking at the photographer. It was quite the phenomena.

Hi John and all of our other dear friends,

Pardon me for resurrecting this thread as I'm trying to catch up after a tumultuous week with the illness and death of a close relative (my dear Aunt Joyce, my mother's sister). I am alone on Valentine's day as Anne is working tonight and suffering from a bad fall at work that she took the night of the funeral where we spent the night in the emergency room. It's a long story, but suffice it to say that all who look at her take pity on her. I survive the "did you beat her stories" by pointing out that I would look a lot worse as she wouldn't have given up without a fight!

John, just a quick word to say how much we enjoyed meeting you in New York and also, how much we enjoyed your open mike performances. We're looking forward to getting to know you better.

You have received many good thoughts and much good advice. I have just a few observations for you and I admire your (non) reponse to your former teacher.

I think the worst thing that someone can do to you, particularly at an early age is to question your nature. When your, "Mr. W" pigeoned-holed you as a "bad" writer, (I realize that these might not be his exact words) as he labeled you, he violated the most sacred trust.

I have been taught that we have a first nature-those genetic traits that heritage, parentage and the dice of time imbue us with; and a second nature,- our reactions and learned response that is impressed upon us by circumstances. There is a formula that reflects this second nature-and I'll post it sometime, but it involves emotion and the fact that "reality" is what we perceive it to be.

There is, however, the intrinsic ability of the human spirit working within the creative subconcious-that allows the continual 'bucking up" of our natural gifts with which we are endowed. We do this mostly by talking to ourselves. And here is the key, by having someone like Mr. W (an authority figure) label us, we risk believing him and letting him create our reality. By controlling our own forethought, we prefigure the way the world looks at us and help those around us face the day. There are times that the world beats us down, but truly, the life of the mind sustains us.

You are a good writer, I can tell that from your works. Like all of us, you have the ability to be a better writer. You have an emotional stability which allows you to process criticism and separate your works from the odd observation that helps all of us overcome the scotoma's of our our own creations.

Best regards,

Joe

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Dear Joe ~

I'm very, very, very interested in having you post that formula here. I agree just as much as to the truth of what you've said. Being diligent with reconciling the truth and impact of those two 'realities' is what will detemine of who and what we become in our lives.

I feel that this thread engaged many of us as it did because of our concern for John, as it's rare that someone [well, okay, particularly a male someone] will allow themselves to be vulnerable in the way that John did when he posted his experience with that Mr. W. Another reason, however, is that I feel it nudged at those parts within ourselves that have suffered, likewise ~ not necessarily by a teacher, but perhaps by a parent, a sibling, friends, or 'the crowd.' This is not a 'battle' of growing up and learning who we 'are' that only John has struggled with ~ we have struggled right alongside him, each in our own ways.

Love,
Elizabeth

Hi Lizzy,

The formula is I x V=R which stands for imagination times vividness equals reality. It is based solely on cognitive psychology and while there may be some mathematical scientific proofs a general discussion for us would be more beneficial.

Take for example John's experience with his teacher. An authority figure, (Mr. W) makes an arbitrary judgment of John's writing ability. It obviously impressed John enough through repeated repetition in his mind combined with the emotion of perceiving criticism to have him bring it forward to a time where he is emotionally secure.

Thank heavens that John told himself (and reinforced it) that he was a good writer. The world is filled with those unfortunates who let others label them.

The good news is that we can use this formula to change our own beliefs to more effective ones. And, by beliefs, I'm not talking about religion or family-simply those ideas that we think "embody" what we think we are like.

I have to go now, but I'll return to it later as I'm convinced that thinking about these things in a careful way helps us to be happier and more effective.

Love,

Joe