To understand suffering is the most difficult thing for us but we must try:
“In times of prosperity be joyful, but in times of adversity consider this, God has made one as well as the other so that no one can discover what the future holds”
Ec 7,14
“And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose” Ro 8,28
“Our present sufferings cannot even be compared to the glory that will be revealed to us”
Ro 8,28
those who cannot give material help may pray
Tsunami
Thanks for the book recommendation, Mark. It sounds worthwhile.
At times like this, the why's and wherefore's of such happenings from religious/metaphysical perspectives don't concern me. There's plenty of time left for those considerations. Right now, it just feels like attempts to intellectualize a heart issue; afford oneself some distance from the nightmare of it; and to subconsciously help, or try to, feel some sense of security and assure ourselves that it "[therefore] couldn't happen to me because . . . ". I don't believe anyone is being 'punished'/'taught a lesson' for anything. I believe, as Paula has noted, that this is Nature ~ and such is her unfathomable Force. I don't believe man's actions during his time on earth has resulted in this Tsunami. Changes are occurring for whatever reason. I would be shocked to ever hear that this was related to global warming. However, I do believe in G~d. Even so, I believe that everything Paula has said regarding our regard/disregard for Nature are imperative issues for both our present and future.
I couldn't help but feel glad for the reports ~ akin to the multi-faith prayers and services mentioned by Margaret ~ that the civil war in Sri Lanka has ceased, and people are coming together as people to help each other in their attempts to survive this.
Right now, on my own, I'm thinking only of the devastation these people have suffered and continue to suffer. NPR has cautioned people that there will be people exploiting this situation with soliciting funds for fraudulent charities. They have a list on their site ~ http://www.npr.org ~ of verifiably reputable charities. They recommend that we send money to U.S.-side charities vs. ones overseas, which cannot be verified. They also recommend that one still check the charities here to confirm what percentage goes for administration and what actually goes for direct aid to victims.
Apparently, there is food piling up at airports in the areas hit, due to inability to traverse the land to get it to where it's needed. I hope everyone here will contribute to reliable charities of their choice. Or, as Sandra suggests, at least pray. Lightning's suggestion of the Salvation Army is a good one.
I'm still concerned for Mayani and her family, and for Juang [A'af] and his family.
~ Elizabeth
At times like this, the why's and wherefore's of such happenings from religious/metaphysical perspectives don't concern me. There's plenty of time left for those considerations. Right now, it just feels like attempts to intellectualize a heart issue; afford oneself some distance from the nightmare of it; and to subconsciously help, or try to, feel some sense of security and assure ourselves that it "[therefore] couldn't happen to me because . . . ". I don't believe anyone is being 'punished'/'taught a lesson' for anything. I believe, as Paula has noted, that this is Nature ~ and such is her unfathomable Force. I don't believe man's actions during his time on earth has resulted in this Tsunami. Changes are occurring for whatever reason. I would be shocked to ever hear that this was related to global warming. However, I do believe in G~d. Even so, I believe that everything Paula has said regarding our regard/disregard for Nature are imperative issues for both our present and future.
I couldn't help but feel glad for the reports ~ akin to the multi-faith prayers and services mentioned by Margaret ~ that the civil war in Sri Lanka has ceased, and people are coming together as people to help each other in their attempts to survive this.
Right now, on my own, I'm thinking only of the devastation these people have suffered and continue to suffer. NPR has cautioned people that there will be people exploiting this situation with soliciting funds for fraudulent charities. They have a list on their site ~ http://www.npr.org ~ of verifiably reputable charities. They recommend that we send money to U.S.-side charities vs. ones overseas, which cannot be verified. They also recommend that one still check the charities here to confirm what percentage goes for administration and what actually goes for direct aid to victims.
Apparently, there is food piling up at airports in the areas hit, due to inability to traverse the land to get it to where it's needed. I hope everyone here will contribute to reliable charities of their choice. Or, as Sandra suggests, at least pray. Lightning's suggestion of the Salvation Army is a good one.
I'm still concerned for Mayani and her family, and for Juang [A'af] and his family.
~ Elizabeth
Paula: Yes that Cunliffe sounds like a right dickhead, but at least his money will be going to the local tourism. Apart from the devastation wreaked by the tidal wave, and the cholera, homelessness, starvation and dehydration etc which is following, these countries are losing their livelihoods for the forseeable future. Send more Cunliffes to sip G and Ts by the pool! 
We are on standby to go and help with the cleanup and disease control in the region. I can't imagine what it is going to be like if we get called on.
I saw in another chatroom a whole bunch of posts saying that aid money should not be sent because it only enables 'these people'. Like they brought the Tsunami on themselves! Gut-lifting to see those attitudes in this supposed time of "goodwill to all mankind".
Happy New Year all. May you appreciate all that you have
We are on standby to go and help with the cleanup and disease control in the region. I can't imagine what it is going to be like if we get called on.
I saw in another chatroom a whole bunch of posts saying that aid money should not be sent because it only enables 'these people'. Like they brought the Tsunami on themselves! Gut-lifting to see those attitudes in this supposed time of "goodwill to all mankind".
Happy New Year all. May you appreciate all that you have
Last edited by Insanitor on Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Buddha
Buddha
"Enable"!?! Take their holier-than-thou, psychology-/sociology-elitest attitudes and stick them where the sun will never shine! The only enabling that helping these people will do is to help them survive virtually unsurvivable conditions and trauma.
I had truly believed that this tragedy was historically unprecedented. My former husband, not trying in any way to minimize that cataclysmic nature of this Tsunami, read to me this morning a list of disasters over the past 70 years. Several earthquakes in China and elsewhere exceeded 200,000 deaths, and there were a number of other shocking disasters and numbers. He intentionally did add at the end of it that these numbers, totaled, still came to less than the number of Iraqis who have been killed since 1991. I would have to add the numbers and compare to know the validity of that claim; however, his point was taken, but still without minimizing this current, horrific situation.
I had truly believed that this tragedy was historically unprecedented. My former husband, not trying in any way to minimize that cataclysmic nature of this Tsunami, read to me this morning a list of disasters over the past 70 years. Several earthquakes in China and elsewhere exceeded 200,000 deaths, and there were a number of other shocking disasters and numbers. He intentionally did add at the end of it that these numbers, totaled, still came to less than the number of Iraqis who have been killed since 1991. I would have to add the numbers and compare to know the validity of that claim; however, his point was taken, but still without minimizing this current, horrific situation.
MY HEARTS AND TEARS WITH YOU ACEH!!
hi all,
Firstly, Merry X'mas and Happy Another Blessing Year
Thanks to you all for the attention.
I'm here in Jakarta, Indonesia (1000 miles from aceh). I'm okay. But FYI, the disaster in Aceh is terribly sorry for human being!!
all district in west and north aceh is WRECKED by tsunami.
the victims now, can be describe precisely. perhaps 150.000 or more,
just in Aceh , Indonesia. NOT IN ANOTHER COUNTRY
maybe no one can illustrate this by wordS for this disaster......!!!!!
"MY HEARTS AND TEARS IS FOR YOU ACEH"
Firstly, Merry X'mas and Happy Another Blessing Year
Thanks to you all for the attention.
I'm here in Jakarta, Indonesia (1000 miles from aceh). I'm okay. But FYI, the disaster in Aceh is terribly sorry for human being!!
all district in west and north aceh is WRECKED by tsunami.
the victims now, can be describe precisely. perhaps 150.000 or more,
just in Aceh , Indonesia. NOT IN ANOTHER COUNTRY
maybe no one can illustrate this by wordS for this disaster......!!!!!
"MY HEARTS AND TEARS IS FOR YOU ACEH"
-
Tchocolatl
- Posts: 3805
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
A'af and Insanitor, I'm glad to see you are both OK!! Insanitor from here I could tell you that concern and help is overwelming the uncounciousness, the indifference (and/or coldest reactions). I myself participated in a tiny way, but tiny here and there etc. etc. (you already know me theory about the power of the multitude of little actions 
)
)***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."
Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."
Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
I'm so relieved and happy to see that little man running around inside that little box 
. I'm very glad to know for certain that you are fine, A'af. Thanks for checking in. The best of season's blessings to you, too.
Insanitor ~ Where is Fiji in relationship to the Tsunami-stricken areas?
Tchocolatl ~ I was shocked to see that you were in an earthquake area, as well. I'm, long after the fact, very glad that you fared fine, as well. I'm certain that you did all you could to help others during that time.
. I'm very glad to know for certain that you are fine, A'af. Thanks for checking in. The best of season's blessings to you, too.
I still cannot look at pictures of the Tsunami aftermath without tears and tightened throat."MY HEARTS AND TEARS IS FOR YOU ACEH"
Insanitor ~ Where is Fiji in relationship to the Tsunami-stricken areas?
Tchocolatl ~ I was shocked to see that you were in an earthquake area, as well. I'm, long after the fact, very glad that you fared fine, as well. I'm certain that you did all you could to help others during that time.
Hi there
Thanks Tchoco...every little bit of help is making a difference!
If people don't want to help, it's up to them, but they can't really criticise those who are willing. Or those who are affected!
Liz - I am in Australia at the moment (home for Christmas) but we have delayed as we are both trained in public health and have registered to be called upon. A large amount of doctors and nurses etc left for the affected regions recently, mainly to deal with casualties, but there is an expected disease outbreak so we may be needed soon.
The earthquake and tsunami happened in the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific. I don't think Fiji or some of the other islands would really stand much chance. Here is a map of the region affected (I can't remember if one was posted). http://www.swankyconservative.com/quake/
I can't handle the media footage, most recently those who are searching for lost relatives after pretty much losing everything. Somehow I don't think they will be getting grief counselling!
Thanks Tchoco...every little bit of help is making a difference!
If people don't want to help, it's up to them, but they can't really criticise those who are willing. Or those who are affected! Liz - I am in Australia at the moment (home for Christmas) but we have delayed as we are both trained in public health and have registered to be called upon. A large amount of doctors and nurses etc left for the affected regions recently, mainly to deal with casualties, but there is an expected disease outbreak so we may be needed soon.
The earthquake and tsunami happened in the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific. I don't think Fiji or some of the other islands would really stand much chance. Here is a map of the region affected (I can't remember if one was posted). http://www.swankyconservative.com/quake/
I can't handle the media footage, most recently those who are searching for lost relatives after pretty much losing everything. Somehow I don't think they will be getting grief counselling!
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Buddha
Buddha
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linda_lakeside
- Posts: 3857
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
I'm glad you guys are safe! A'af, I don't even know you but I thought of you quite a bit since first news of this tragedy. Insanitor, it's always nice to see you zipping around!
I can't begin to fathom the magnitude of the task ahead! It's always near impossible to get relief aid to those that need it most!
From watching the news I saw that many people from many countries who were there on holiday chose to stay and help with the clean-up and aid. I honestly don't know if I would be knocking people down in an effort to be first on the plane or if I could find something deep inside of me that would give me enough strength to stay. I guess, most of us can be glad we've not been put to the test.
In some way, the tourists that chose to stay have been given a privilege-to show what they're made of. Not many of us know, right off the top of our pointed little heads, which role we've played in our lives is the most important (except for parenting). It is truly awesome that so many would step up to the plate like that. Right, Insanitor?
Keep well! Listen to Leonard - All Good Things
I can't begin to fathom the magnitude of the task ahead! It's always near impossible to get relief aid to those that need it most!
From watching the news I saw that many people from many countries who were there on holiday chose to stay and help with the clean-up and aid. I honestly don't know if I would be knocking people down in an effort to be first on the plane or if I could find something deep inside of me that would give me enough strength to stay. I guess, most of us can be glad we've not been put to the test.
In some way, the tourists that chose to stay have been given a privilege-to show what they're made of. Not many of us know, right off the top of our pointed little heads, which role we've played in our lives is the most important (except for parenting). It is truly awesome that so many would step up to the plate like that. Right, Insanitor?
Keep well! Listen to Leonard - All Good Things
I'm stunned by how many countries worldwide have been directly affected by the Tsunami, shown by these figures. Some countries [including the U.S.] don't show the numbers still missing.
The tally of foreigners confirmed dead from the quake and tsunamis throughout southern Asia, according to their countries' foreign ministries. Figures also include the most recent available numbers of missing based on official estimates by governments.
— Germany: 60 dead. More than 1,000 missing.
— Sweden: 52 dead. 2,322 missing.
— Britain: 40 dead. 159 missing.
— France: 22 dead. 99 missing.
— Japan: 21 dead.
— Italy: 18 dead. 540 missing.
— Norway: 16 dead. 150 missing.
— Switzerland: 16 dead. 595 missing.
— United States: 15 dead.
— Finland: 14 dead. 183 missing.
— Australia: 13 dead. 78 missing.
— South Korea: 11 dead.
— Singapore: 9 dead.
The tally of foreigners confirmed dead from the quake and tsunamis throughout southern Asia, according to their countries' foreign ministries. Figures also include the most recent available numbers of missing based on official estimates by governments.
— Germany: 60 dead. More than 1,000 missing.
— Sweden: 52 dead. 2,322 missing.
— Britain: 40 dead. 159 missing.
— France: 22 dead. 99 missing.
— Japan: 21 dead.
— Italy: 18 dead. 540 missing.
— Norway: 16 dead. 150 missing.
— Switzerland: 16 dead. 595 missing.
— United States: 15 dead.
— Finland: 14 dead. 183 missing.
— Australia: 13 dead. 78 missing.
— South Korea: 11 dead.
— Singapore: 9 dead.