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Hi Teratogen ~

I know the 'aloof' pastor wife types you speak of, but I've also tried to consider how overwhelmed they must be. To have a potentially whole congregation feeling they're entitled to your ear, and you're not even 'the big guy' in the church, simply married to him. True enough, that this marriage and couple's career decision comes with a certain amount of anticipated and expected responsibility, but still.....already, people are calling her house at all hours for him, etc.

This particular woman, however, is anything but aloof or even simple. She's sincere and genuine. What if I had been away due to severe illness [me or my family]. He could've figured a way to call my home, yes? Don't know whether he had my number, but it seems I'd filled out something at some point, giving it. He didn't mention having tried ~ only an accusatory look, tone, and question. She, on the other hand, was welcoming every time I saw her ~ and still is....caring about the person instead of the pew presence. Yes, I know that his kind of 'caring' can be considered caring about the person and more, i.e. the soul. Yet, they know that not everyone feels this way, and perhaps, I wasn't feeling this way, but that possibility never came on the screen, and his behaviour crystallized my feelings even further. Not that my feelings are that tenuous, as to be based on, "Well, that preacher!!!" ~ but, it was one more nail in the bucket. His wife was one who, if anything, made you want to go to, attend, be a part of their church. She's what I consider a 'true Christian,' one living by Jesus's words. I've never sensed any feelings of condemnation in her ~ toward me or anyone else. She seems to understand the Christian [and others'] truth that it's G~d's place to judge. She speaks well for Christianity and I admire her as a person, as well as for that. Still she stands out in my memory of pastor's wives. I've encountered the kind you speak of, and it would seem, perhaps?, more than I've encountered ones like her ~ else, why is she so prominent in my mind of how Christians in general, much less pastor's wives, 'should' be [aside from their right to be 'human,' and feeling overwhelmed by their 'position,' of course]. This can get rather protracted, can't it? I need to get to work !

Later,
Lizzy

Didn't I tell you you're my role model ? I could probably go delete an entire post right now . Instead, I'll look to reverting to a pattern of previous attempts. You're right, of course . Especially helpful, since responding is sometimes highlighted, by a narrow few, as constituting the initial attack. Better days, better ways

Hi Lizzy. I am your role model . Blimey. Thanks for the compliment . I am reminded of the quote: " What I am for you terrifies me. But what I am with you consoles me."

I just looked that up, and the entire quote is:

“What I am for you terrifies me; what I am with you consoles me. For you I am a bishop; but with you I am a Christian. The former is a title of duty; the latter, one of grace. The former is a danger; the latter, salvation. ” — St. Augustine (Serm 340, 1: PL 38, 1483)

Great quote, huh?

Peter Danielson said:

I think the message of the christian gospel is exactly that. You are love as a sinner. You are not loved because you have done something good, but as you are, in your strugling, in your love in your hate, in everything you are, not in what what you should be.

What beautiful words. We all deserve to be loved exactly as we are, but often we are afraid to reveal exactly who we are, because we remember not being loved that way as children and it hurts too much and makes us so vulnerable. The idea that even God would not love us warts-and-all is one of the great turn-offs of much of organised religion with its endless doctrines.

I think that what is called "demonic" and as such isolated from "God" actually could be understood as an important element of the devine. I think the demonic should be connected with the neccesary destructive force of all life. Real life involves Construction or form, an atom has form, a living cell has form, a human being is a individual person. And real life involves Destruction that is the dynamics which lets the cell and the person develop. In any development there is destruction, the old dies so that the new can live.
On the level of society and art we see the same stucture of destruction (construction+destruction) any giving song, or book, or painting destroys something of the old to claim the new. And any society involves form(the given norms and rules) and critique (from the arts, from different political parties, from any voice heard). If the old norms does not reflect life anymore, they must leave the space to new norm that do...Why does being have the power over nonbeing?

Being doesn't have power over nonbeing, I don't think, much as we wish it did. If we can stop trying to have all the positive things in life without accepting death, decay, hate, and realise that there is no life, beauty and love without these things, but that they are mutually dependent, then we will have made progress. But it's not easy. Looked at from this perspective, I have to ask myself why I freaked out over T's post. I am aware than I am more attached, even than most people, to wanting things to be "all right".

My last statement "Boasting about personal freedom also involves displaying the lack of interest in the wounds of individuals." is not meant pointing at you but at any person, who boasts, me in perticular. I think we all do this from time to time, we say "well look how free I am, I take care for myself" but I think this boasting is mostly due to the fact that we would like someone to meet us as we are. We feel a cut and try to make the freedom an ideal. In this cut we are not always prepared to see the wound of the other.

I think we are right to feel proud of the extent to which we can become free. I think we ignore each other's wounds all the more if our own wounds are still deep. Boasting, yes, we all do that too, and yet, we all still kneel in the mud, deeply, together.

I dont know if I've succeded in explaining my view of the word "sin" or the word "sinner". But I think L.C speaks of the same in his introduction to the songs The Guest:
"But..it's a song about how a new soul comes into the world looking for the feast, feeling completely separated from everything, feeling isolated and in exile, and how the great author of this dismoral catastrophe, this veil of tears, pulls each of these souls into the Feast and into the banquet. And noone knows where the night is going, noone knows why the wine is flowing and Oh Love I need You I need You I need You.....

I have just re-read the lyrics of The Guest. Yes, I see what you are saying (at least I think I do...). Beautiful words...

Diane

lizzy, i know what you mean. i don't know this woman so i can't really say anything, but what i said before about the aloof-pastor's-wives thing, you already know what i'm talking about. and if you say she is not one of them well then i believe you. i have no problem with people like that. my best friend's parents are conservative people and i have nothing against them at all. i don't care so much for the politics or religion that they have attached themselves to, but they are very nice and loving, generous and hospitable people. they don't know what i do and say and write or whatever, and i don't purposely keep it a secret from them, but they never ask, so i don't tell. and i wouldn't bring things up or say something out of line or over the top in front of them. i most likely wouldn't do that with the kind of person your pastor's wife is either. i have a t-shirt i got when we were in new york that said "fuck bush" on it, and i was going to go over to their house but i changed my shirt before i left.

diane, wish i could reply to your post but you are addressing daniel peterson. hahaha.

anyway, i hope you've all noticed that paula_hansen is a fraud. but it's my favorite fraud! hahaha. this may change a LOT of things...

Hi T, please feel free to reply to any of my posts regardless of to whom they are addressed.

I am well aware that paula h is a "fraud". I did try to point this out some time ago. See page 12, second post, where I say to you: "I wouldn't pay too much heed to Paula, "she" is just on a wind-up." Anyway, it's all just good fun in the end.

Even though I knew paula was not real I still freaked at your post for the reasons I gave (but I am willing to pursue the discussion about whether I was justified or not if you want). But, anyway, I have recovered now. At least, until you do something else like that .

i have a t-shirt i got when we were in new york that said "fuck bush" on it, and i was going to go over to their house but i changed my shirt before i left.

I can see you're a simply a lovely considerate person, really. At your age I would have put the T shirt on for the occasion.

See you later,

Diane

btw Pity you're not going to Berlin: I had already packed a wet flannel to wipe that mushroom-cloud-shaped-toothpaste-smear from your brow. (Now, does anyone think there is a way back into the smut from there...?)

Well, about two hours ago, I had a response almost completed to both of you, Diane and Teratogen. Then, I got a call and had to disconnect to pick it up. This telephone connection to the Internet has real drawbacks . When I returned, I finished up and Submitted ~ into the ethers , as I had not reconnected to the Internet.

When that happens [rarely, anymore, fortunately ~ but I was really involved in my response], I have to walk away from it. Disheartened . Now, I need to go into town, and then for a massage [Mmmm.....]. Anyway, if you want to wait, I can help segue you later back into the Smut Field, or I can give you a station break when I return to respond. In any case, I'll hand over the stage and the mic to you, Gypsy Rose Lee .

I'll be back tonight.

Love,
Lizzy

I've had that happen to me Lizzy. A real Condor Moment, isn't it?

Hope you had a wonderful massage. Mmmmmm indeed. They are sooo relaaaxing, aren't they? I must book one as a Christmas pressie to myself...

See you later,

Love,

Diane

lizzy, just copy your texts and save them to a microsoft word document, or move them there or to notepad for the time being. then copy and paste it back into the message or pm or whatever when you're ready to send it. or, just write it all out first, then when you sign in it's ready to send in seconds.

now, if you all want some more SMUT, look no further ladies and dirtbags... the time has come for some more teratogen songs to strip to!

this is one i began writing a few months ago and haven't finished yet, so bear with me. it has no title yet, but goes something like this (oh, and be reminded that when it's recorded, the chorus will be sung in the fashion of cheerleading):

Let's do the things
That would make a jealous devil cry
Make God roll over
Make inhibitions die
So drop your Bible Belt
'Cause we're going down south
And when their jaws drop
Babe, we'll stick it in their mouths

Let's do the things
That would defy gravity
Make planets align
Cause a parting of the sea
We'll make it so hot
We'll get your mother aroused
And when her jaw drops
Babe, we'll stick it in her mouth

Because it's oral s-e-x
S-o-d-o-m, Y?
Because we like it, we love it
Can't get enough of it
It's anal s-e-x
S-o-d-o-m, Y?
Because we like it and we love it
Oh, mother-may-I?

Let's do the things
That would cause a nationwide panic
Cause violence in the streets
Cause TV's to go static
Let's do it at the altar
As we take our solemn vows
And when their jaws drop
Babe, we'll stick it in their mouths

Because it's oral s-e-x
S-o-d-o-m, Y?
Because we like it, we love it
Can't get enough of it
It's anal s-e-x
S-o-d-o-m, Y?
Because we like it and we love it
And the pleasures do not lie


and that's all i've got so far. i plan on at least one more verse and chorus. and diane, i hope this helps for another reason to lash out at me.

Hi Teratogen, well, this time I am afraid I am just laughing. When you keep trying to shock people, the effect wears off after a while . But, hmmm, I can't think of a smutty response. Smut needs a little more subtlety for me. Well, a lot more, probably. Whatever did happen to those double entendres? I would love to be able to administer a lashing, but my heart would not be in it because I am not really into that kind of thing. But, I know a girl who is...

Diane

it isn't meant to shock. it's meant to be dirty, that's all. hahaha. whoever finds it shocking, well, that's on them. i only added it to this thread because of the content, not any kind of potential shock value. and might this whipping girl be ali????

Hi Sir T. Yes, but by the time you get to our age, you have had to become a lot more repressed and shockable, and only allow your naughty thoughts to be expressed in double entendres:

double entendre n : an ambiguity with one interpretation that is indelicate. (italics mine)

See? Please do continue with the dirty stuff, but you can't expect any of us oldies to repond to it .

Re. your question: I couldn't possibly say.

Diane

yes yes yes i know what a double entendre is. but there is no point in being dirty and having no responses. i can do that alone.

Exactly. So, Sir T, how is your erection for the competition coming along at the moment?

(This is a test, remember, you have to give me an ambiguous answer...)

Diane

it's going.

ambiguous enough for you?

Excellent, T . Yes, I can well understand that. I wonder if anyone can help you to re-establish your piece. Ladies?

Diane

I could help you Whip Something Up, T