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Steven the mention of deep dialogue and logos in your link reminds me of Viktor Frankl and Man's Search for Meaning, a book I thought was v. profound when I read it some years ago. Thanks for the reminder.

Kush there's a massive increase in provision for caffeine addiction over here lately, so next time you alight at Heathrow I'll hazard you will get your fix. During the few days I spent in the Sahara I was served delicious tagines along with fresh bread baked in the sand. Not fast food, very slow food, but more than worth the wait to taste. Today I received Tinariwen's latest offering, Imidiwan: Companions, although I've not listened to it yet.

...Springsteen's "The Ghost of Tom Joad" with Tom Morello....

Tom Morello was on acoustic guitar this time (so no soaring guitar solo) which I guess makes sense at Pete Seeger's bash. It's still very good though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvzNVqUjk4A

Even acoustic Tom Morello sounds quite menacing....I wouldnt like to run into him in a bad mood.

I dont listen to that much Pete Seeger but these are two of my favorite songs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXO113ILV8
How can I keep from Singing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslw-lXFaC8
Golden River (sung by Arlo Guthrie's 14 year old daughter)

I remember we used to have the album Precious Friend by Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie at home.

During the few days I spent in the Sahara I was served delicious tagines along with fresh bread baked in the sand.

If you have not had it yet, try some bread at a Ethiopian place (cant remember what they call it) - they bake the best bread in the world take it from me. Its smooth as silk and I am not exaggerating with the analogy. We have the Queen of Sheba chain in US dont know if you have it too. (always happy to dish out advice on food, solicited or otherwise)

Hi Diane,

I agree with you on the profundity of that book. Reading your mention of it brought the lyric
line of a Rod Stewart song to mind: "Still I look to find a reason to believe." Wasn't a profound
song (but a good one, though) and "reason" was mind-mapped to be synonymous with "meaning."
The book was emotionally difficult but worthwhile reading for me and for lots of others.

Hi Kush,

Will get to those links later on. Had some of that Ethiopian bread once. I think that they use it
not only as food but in place of forks. On the coffee topic, the one and only Ethiopian restaurant
that I've visited served coffee with ginger in it. Wouldn't have thought of that combination
as compatible. It was and I sometimes add ginger to the coffee I make at home. Fresh
ginger works better than powdered.

Hi Steven,

Not only is the bread also the fork but it is also the plate, as I recall. And a communal one that everyone at the table eats from. And the best part is after the meal you eat both the fork and the plate.
I have never had coffee with ginger but will try it out. I have some powdered ginger I believe so will try that first. I rented a space with a Turkish family one time and they used to have this awesome Turkish coffee. Also in very minute quantity (like espresso) but pretty potent stuff. I remember many a Friday night (after the carousing) that we'd solve some of the world's most pressing problems fueled on that stuff. And whatever issues remained unresolved we'd resume saturday night.

Hi Kush,

They probably compromised by giving non-Ethiopians a plate, at the restaurant I visited. Turkish
coffee is good stuff, in my opinion. Vietnamese coffee, though, with condensed milk in it, tops
it, i.m.h.o. It's a nice thing to spend time over coffee or tea with people who commune around the
beverage and conversation.

P.S. The ginger in the Ethiopian coffee was likely fresh. I don't know if they use powdered in Ethiopia.
The difference in taste between the two is marked, probably about as much as cilantro
(fresh) and the dried form sold as coriander.

Kush I know How Can I keep From Singing only from Enya's lovely version, nice that you show me the original after all these years:-)

Mmm lots of talk here about ginger. Fresh ginger, coriander and chilli are my fave spices to cook with. Turkish coffee is far too bitter for me, def. an acquired taste that I have no wish to aquire:-) When I was in Turkey I thought the apple tea being served everywhere was far more pleasant if a bit sweet. Ditto the mint tea in Morocco. Definitely the social aspect of tea drinking wherever you find yourself seems more important than its taste though. Never tried Ethiopian bread.

Kush wrote:Not only is the bread also the fork but it is also the plate, as I recall. And a communal one that everyone at the table eats from. And the best part is after the meal you eat both the fork and the plate.

Cool. The most memorable non-fork experience I had was in a cafe well away from the tourist areas in Dubai that was used by the migrant working population from India there. There was a group of us including children. When the truly delicious curry made with local fish arrived we were given no cutlery to eat it with and only then did I notice that everyone else was using their fingers and washing their hands when they'd finished. I confess I asked for some forks and the staff were most concerned and attentive and after some time rooted us out some plastic ones from the kitchen (possibly somebody had been dispatched to go and buy some). I'm hoping that was the last time I manage to cast myself in the role of the useless tourist who can't adapt to things not being as they are at home, but the memory always makes me smile.

Steven wrote:Hi Diane,
I agree with you on the profundity of that book. Reading your mention of it brought the lyric
line of a Rod Stewart song to mind: "Still I look to find a reason to believe." Wasn't a profound
song (but a good one, though) and "reason" was mind-mapped to be synonymous with "meaning."
The book was emotionally difficult but worthwhile reading for me and for lots of others.

Steven, yes, I like that line "still I look to find a reason to believe" too, and I also really love the song Bruce did with similar title/theme on Nebraska. The tune as well as the title has something in common with Rod's and I looked up to see who wrote Rod's version and it was written by Tim Hardin in the late 60's. Good job I looked that up before making any accusations!

Well I haven't copied any lyrics into this thread for some time so here goes:

Reason to Believe

Seen a man standin' over a dead dog lyin' by the highway in a ditch
He's lookin' down kinda puzzled pokin' that dog with a stick
Got his car door flung open he's standin' out on highway 31
Like if he stood there long enough that dog'd get up and run
Struck me kinda funny seem kinda funny sir to me
Still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe

Now Mary Lou loved Johnny with a love mean and true
She said "Baby I'll work for you every day and bring my money home to you"
One day he up and left her and ever since that
She waits down at the end of that dirt road for young Johnny to come back
Struck me kinda funny seemed kind of funny sir to me
How at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe

Take a baby to the river Kyle William they called him
Wash the baby in the water take away little Kyle's sin
In a whitewash shotgun shack an old man passes away
take his body to the graveyard and over him they pray
Lord won't you tell us
tell us what does it mean
Still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe

Congregation gathers down by the riverside
Preacher stands with his Bible groom stands waitin' for his bride
Congregation gone and the sun sets behind a weepin' willow tree
Groom stands alone and watches the river rush on so effortlessly
Wonderin' where can his baby be
Still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe

Hi Diane,

The fresh leafy coriander, sold here as cilantro, smells great. Probably it is mostly used for Mexican
salsa-like dishes. Never heard of apple tea. Maybe it's tea infused with apples. I do that sometimes
with dried apples. Mint tea is something I avoid because of an aversion to mint after someone who knew
better gave me some to put in my garden. It was a voracious plant that took years to get rid of.
Now I don't even like the smell of it. You didn't mention basil. That's up there with cilantro as
a favorite of mine. Let's not get started on rosemary or hot peppers... or a certain herb combo
from the Chesapeake Bay region in the U.S. that is used for shrimp boils, etc... Now you
have me in the mood for Indian food. They do provide forks here at Indian restaurants. At the
authentic places here, I've found it to be a mistake to order "hot," when they offer a choice.
We'll have to arrange for a L.C./Springsteen fans' culinary event. I'll bring the stout.

Also noticed the similarity to the Rod Stewart song with the one on Springsteen's "Nebraska":
"Reason to Believe" (when I heard it first time years ago). Unconsciously, Bruce probably
was influenced by the Stewart song. Rod Stewart was highly received here in the U.S. as
a rocker (when he really used to rock). "Hot Legs" and some of Rod's other songs were/are classic
mainstream rockers. With your lyrics posting of "Reason to Believe," I notice river imagery
nicely, but more subtly employed, than in "The River." Glad you posted the lyrics.

Have a good weekend.

Hi Steven. I have never heard of coriander leaves being called cilantro. Ha, we are back to differences in food names. You also call an aubergine an eggplant don't you. How peculiar. I am not wild on mint tea but I do like the smell of fresh mint. Mint sauce with roast lamb is traditional over here although I don't eat it because I am a sort-of veggie (I don't eat anything that has legs, as one of my friends puts it). Basil, yes, love basil, can't get enough of that. One really simple Italian sauce I make is purely from ripe tomatoes, garlic, onions and plenty of fresh basil. Sooo delicious. You mention rosemary, too. Love that, my fave is to use it between layers of sliced potatoes with olive oil and baked in the oven. Shrimp boil? What's that, a dish of boiled prawns?

We'll have to arrange for a L.C./Springsteen fans' culinary event. I'll bring the stout.

OK then. I don't mind a drop of whiskey so I'll bring the spirit in the night and Kush can bring the blueberry wine.

yes I hadn't noticed the river line in Reason to Believe before either! Nice touch of zen there.

Have a good weekend yourself, see you later.

Hi Diane,

Never heard of coriander leaves being called cilantro till a farm market cash register receipt listed the
purchase of some that way. Thought it was a mistake. Looked it up to find out it wasn't. Never
have I seen an eggplant sold as an aubergine here. Bet that the late Julia Child (an iconic French
cooking TV show person who a movie has been made about) referred to eggplant as aubergine.
(The Italian name for eggplant is slang for those of darker skin hue.) I like your sauce recipe, but
don't forget the olive oil. Depending on preference, you can also add some green peppers,
black pepper, mushrooms, hot sauce/red pepper flakes. Rosemary is better suited to those potatoes
than a sauce -- with you there. Prawns confuse lots of people here. Sometimes they mean
shrimp which are similar to prawns (there's some anatomical distinction that some people
use to make a distinction between prawns and shrimp, but others don't. Wiki says something
about this distinction being present or not based partially on geographical location. Probably
analogous to the use of turtle or tortoise when referring to those kinds of reptiles, but
with anatomy substituted for whether the animal is land or water dwelling.) Oh yeah,
back to the shrimp (or prawn), the boil is when they are cooked in this particular mixture of
herbs and lots of salt. Not my favorite way to prepare shrimp, but that mixture works better,
in my opinion, for other dishes -- those oven baked potatoes, vegetables and some things
with legs.

Bring the whiskey. Blueberry wine sounds good too.

That we hadn't seen the river line previously is probably what helped make "Reason to Believe"
a good song to us. Bruce's magician's hiden guylines weren't visible, previously here. The zen
was in the experience, more than in the detection. Much zen like experience to you this
weekend.

(I don't eat anything that has legs, as one of my friends puts it).

Ha usually I try to avoid stuff that doesnt have legs on it.

Steven, Diane...I dont have the time right now to do justice to the topic of lamb vindaloo, chicken biryani etc etc all of which require individual chapters in a thesis and a zen frame of mind. It seems people who love intricate music also love intricately prepared food. There must be something ancient about that connection. be back later...

Biryani is my favourite Kush. There's no need to add things with legs imo (although I am well used to standing alone in this view). Aubergine curry is to die for. This forum has started to make me very hungry!

Steven wrote:Bruce's magician's hiden guylines weren't visible, previously here.

Steven yes Springsteen's songs are never as simple as they seem - and often on one level they are simpler.

I too have started to check into this place too much again when I have loads of other things to be doing. Will return when food's ready:-)

Diane, Steven,

Eating using your fingers as the fork gives added flavor to food IMO. You can feel the softness of your own skin/flesh rather than the cold metallic fork against the food. Occasionally I use my fingers when I have roti or tortilla with some other preparation.
I can make a pretty mean chicken tandoori - a little different from what you get at restaurants. Not so dry. It goes well at barbecues.
Diane I had no idea what aubergine curry was till I started reading the posts backwards and found it was eggplant. It sounded French - and French curry would be a pretty funny thing.
Steven....you'd be surprised at how much "hot" food people in the southwest eat. Indian food is no problem - I have a friend from Amarillo, TX (white guy) who would always ask for extra spicy vindaloo at indian restaurants. Even normal vindaloo is pure evil, even I (indian guy) am a little careful with that stuff. Also Korean food is really spicy - more akin to Indian food than Chinese or Japanese.
Well it looks like this food topic has really touched something deep within us.....just goes naturally with music I'd think. Speaking of which...

Seen a man standin' over a dead dog lyin' by the highway in a ditch
He's lookin' down kinda puzzled pokin' that dog with a stick
Got his car door flung open he's standin' out on highway 31
Like if he stood there long enough that dog'd get up and run
Struck me kinda funny seem kinda funny sir to me
Still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe

One of my favorite verses...very zen.

And speaking of similar verses, here is a John Hiatt line that is almost identical to LC's line - 'there ain't no cure for love'.

From Slow Turning....

'You can learn to live with love or without it,
but there ain't no cure'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UrueP3aM40

.....and the most amazing thing is both those songs came out in 1988. Not only do great minds think alike, they think alike at exactly the same time.

I am hearing a lot of Sinatra these days...what an amazing vocalist! A voice like a saxophone made of gold.

Hi Kush (want to give Diane time to get that food ready and get things done before rejoining us here ),

Fingers instead of fork would work if they help a person eat with more mindfulness (presence) -- maybe
this is behind your observation of added flavor? Never made a chicken tandoori, but could, and probably
will. Not too many things with legs cooked here at home nowadays. Real cooking at home is largely done
with castiron cookware, which has seen all kinds of cuisine. A microwave didn't make it here till
last year.

Your friend who orders extra spicy vindaloo at authentic Indian restaurants might possibly be
masochistic or the chefs/clientele at those restaurants could be whimps. Years ago I
bought a bottle of vindaloo which lasted an extremely long time. Good stuff, with a little
bit going sufficiently a long way. Yes, Korean food can be very spicy.

Good verses you quoted, the Springsteen and Hiatt ones. Interesting that they both came
out in the same year. Wouldn't discount the possibility of one songwriter picking up the
same theme from hearing it in another's song.

Very much like your Sinatra comment: "A voice like a saxaphone made of gold."

Hi Steven,

I am not much of a cook actually but there are a handful of specific things that I can make quite well. Otherwise its mostly the microwave I'm afraid. My friend the vindaloo monster was certainly exceptional but southwest cuisine is usually spicier than east coast or elsewhere. Except for the last several years I've always lived in TX and most people enjoy a little extra spike up their taste buds. But when I moved to the east coast and later mid west I realized that one had to actually ask for hot sauce or tabasco at restaurants.

I once had a little collection of similar verses by different songwriters but dont have it anymore....another one I remember is by Bob Dylan and south african Johnny Clegg...

Dylan:
I've made shoes for everyone, even you,
while I still go barefoot.

(I and I)


Clegg:

He's got iron in his soul, he's got a smile in his eyes
He makes dancing shoes from old car tyres

(Bullets for Bafazane)


Sinatra has a huge range and is amazingly versatile. Will bring some favorites later but now I will have to be scarce awhile. Duty calls ...