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Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:15 pm
by mickey_one
Geoffrey wrote:While watching a romantic film a few days ago I noticed that the scene went blurry soon after a couple in a bedroom started kissing. Then waves were seen running up and down the sand to the sound of fitting orchestration. In between sips of lemonade I realised that he was now humping her. Those ocean ripples lapping on the beach symbolised shagging. This image is what inspired Andrew to write: "You were nearer and dearer to me than breakers crashing on the shore." It is the joy of sex, especially orgasm, that tempt people into being unfaithful to their partners - and in a brief encounter love is not involved. This is where Leonard's line: "Between the spurts of come, you launched your tidings of regret," comes in - as Andrew and I touched on recently in this thread. Not without reason did Leonard write 'between the spurts' and not 'during the spurts' - as if talking about a champion swimmer breathing between strokes. There is no greater pleasure for a man than feeling ejaculate being propelled up his urethra canal. His climax is a series of sudden emissions, or 'breakers crashing on the shore' as Andrew would deviously say. 'Tidings of regret' can only be launched BETWEEN the spurts, because the 100% ecstacy felt DURING the spurts prohibits reasoning. Flying in a Cessna seaplane over the fjords yesterday I looked down at the villages between the mountains. I thought to myself: "That's where intelligence exists - between the peaks!" As a lifelong student of psychology I know that whatever a person writes, whether it's 'ripples breaking on the crag' or 'nipples shaking on the hag' - their personality is laid bare. To me they are naked.
hey Geoffrey, between your spurts you have slipped in some excellent news! Have you overcome your fear of flying or was your trip an emergency?
michael
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:50 pm
by Geoffrey
Michael-One asked:
>Have you overcome your fear of flying or was your trip an emergency?
Being touched by your interest in my personal fortunes, it is with some affection I furnish you with my current mental situation. I have dentist phobia, yet am not a coward. I go more to my lady dentist than anyone I know; even at the slightest hint of something amiss in my jaw I can be seen running along to sit in her chair. Most often she finds no tooth decay whatsoever - I see it as a challenge. She is about 40 years old, very sensual - and rests her lovely little tits on my shoulder as she works.
Likewise with flying. The coastline here is one of the most dangerous in the world. That, in combination with the surrounding mountains making it impossible to build railway tracks closer than two hours away. Therefore when I have an appointment with my psychologist in Aandalsnes i can choose either a hazardous car trip or a comparatively comfortable trip in the Cessna. Next week I am going again. If you have a question you'd like me to ask him for you I will be pleased to do so. Nothing about sex though.
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:38 pm
by mickey_one
Geoffrey wrote:Michael-One asked:
>Have you overcome your fear of flying or was your trip an emergency?
Being touched by your interest in my personal fortunes, it is with some affection I furnish you with my current mental situation. I have dentist phobia, yet am not a coward. I go more to my lady dentist than anyone I know; even at the slightest hint of something amiss in my jaw I can be seen running along to sit in her chair. Most often she finds no tooth decay whatsoever - I see it as a challenge. She is about 40 years old, very sensual - and rests her lovely little tits on my shoulder as she works.
Likewise with flying. The coastline here is one of the most dangerous in the world. That, in combination with the surrounding mountains making it impossible to build railway tracks closer than two hours away. Therefore when I have an appointment with my psychologist in Aandalsnes i can choose either a hazardous car trip or a comparatively comfortable trip in the Cessna. Next week I am going again. If you have a question you'd like me to ask him for you I will be pleased to do so. Nothing about sex though.
Hi Geoffrey, does she leave her breasts on your shoulder whilst she walks around the surgery? Hmmm, sounds elastic and weird but as long as it makes you both happy.
Can you please ask your psychologist what he makes of the stunning forgiveness shown by Leonard concerning the awful betrayal by his former manager. My own reaction was one of admiration of such calm and "class" but being so "good" is not always the healthy approach. I would also be interested in your own lay opinion of the situation as I find you highly insightful
regards
michael
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:57 pm
by Geoffrey
Michael_One wrote:
>Can you please ask your psychologist what he makes of the stunning forgiveness shown by Leonard concerning the awful betrayal by his former manager. My own reaction was one of admiration of such calm and "class" but being so "good" is not always the healthy approach. I would also be interested in your own lay opinion of the situation as I find you highly insightful.
I do indeed have something relevant to say on this matter, Michael. I am also aware that we are joyriding away from Andrew's poem. Do you think he will mind if we temporarily hijack this thread and use it as a vehicle for our postulations concerning Leonard's relationship with his former manager? I am about to eat lunch (two small rainbow trout fried in a sour-cream sauce with various herbs) - and afterwards must do some household chores. Visitors are arriving this afternoon and I am therefore obligated to entertain. See you later.
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:53 pm
by mickey_one
Geoffrey wrote:Michael_One wrote:
>Can you please ask your psychologist what he makes of the stunning forgiveness shown by Leonard concerning the awful betrayal by his former manager. My own reaction was one of admiration of such calm and "class" but being so "good" is not always the healthy approach. I would also be interested in your own lay opinion of the situation as I find you highly insightful.
I do indeed have something relevant to say on this matter, Michael. I am also aware that we are joyriding away from Andrew's poem. Do you think he will mind if we temporarily hijack this thread and use it as a vehicle for our postulations concerning Leonard's relationship with his former manager? I am about to eat lunch (two small rainbow trout fried in a sour-cream sauce with various herbs) - and afterwards must do some household chores. Visitors are arriving this afternoon and I am therefore obligated to entertain. See you later.
I am sure Andrew won't mind us continuing this way. If he is upset then send him some trout, olives, parsley, thyme etc. and all will be well. btw I have never understood the real difference in meaning between "obligated" and "obliged" and would be grateful if you, your psychologist, or your dentist could explain, but don't feel obliged
much obligated
michael
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:55 pm
by ~greg
send him some trout, olives, parsley, thyme etc.
but hold the sour-cream
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:30 pm
by Geoffrey
Greg wrote:
>but hold the sour-cream
the sour cream is lovely, you would like it. we call it 'seterømme'. i can't write any more. depression. glad to have this connection with leonard's devoted little army. be back another time.
-geo
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:02 am
by Manna
beautiful little poem for M_1:
the linguistical logic of ad synonym shows
the difference between oblige and obligate
are the same as the minuscule yet unimportant difference
between the verbs orient and orientate.
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:55 am
by mickey_one
Manna wrote:beautiful little poem for M_1:
the linguistical logic of ad synonym shows
the difference between oblige and obligate
are the same as the minuscule yet unimportant difference
between the verbs orient and orientate.
well, that sorts that, M! ta very much, michael
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:01 pm
by Geoffrey
mickey_one wrote:I am sure Andrew won't mind us continuing this way. If he is upset then send him some trout, olives, parsley, thyme etc. and all will be well.
Well, listen to this. Marvin Gaye gave out a single called 'Stubborn Kinda Fellow' in 1962. It became his first big hit, and I believe Leonard Cohen was amongst the people who bought this record. Nothing too remarkable about that perhaps, but what makes it interesting for me is the B-side. An obscure and almost impossible-to-find track called 'It Hurt Me Too'. It must have made an impression on Leonard, because he listened to it intently, wrote down the entire lyrics and studied them. If one wishes one can read his analysis stretching over chapter 30 in the first part of 'Beautiful Losers'. There the song is attributed to 'Gavin Gate and the Goddesses', but in truth it is 'Marvin Gaye (and the Vandellas)' - as confirmed at the beginning of the book. The reason I mention this is because a rare opportunity to hear exactly what Leonard listened to has just became available on YouTube (see below). Marvin Gaye was shot dead before he was 64 - by his dad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi-HiF0vHPE
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:36 pm
by abby
Is anyone else as excited about this song as I am? The chapter begins with one of my favorite parts of the book:
Dear Friend
Turn on the radio
your dear dead friend
F.
And how after the song finishes the narrator does the wrong thing with it, calling the female dj and asking her if she (or F.) knows how long he's been in the kitchen alone. It's tempting to be so pathetic, missing someone dead.
Thanks Geoffrey.
Abby
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:50 pm
by damellon
abby wrote:Is anyone else as excited about this song as I am? The chapter begins with one of my favorite parts of the book:
Dear Friend
Turn on the radio
your dear dead friend
F.
And how after the song finishes the narrator does the wrong thing with it, calling the female dj and asking her if she (or F.) knows how long he's been in the kitchen alone. It's tempting to be so pathetic, missing someone dead.
Thanks Geoffrey.
Abby
Abby - I don't understand this line of yours. Can you say more?
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:34 am
by abby
Let's say that the person you care most about in the world isn't alive anymore. Some time after her death, you find something she left for you before she died. It contained a note that told you to turn on the radio. You turned on the radio. It doesn't matter what's playing- you'll hear a message from your dead loved one. Getting carried away, appropriately or inappropriately I don't care, you call up the dj and think in some cosmic way she must be interested in what you're experiencing. You think she might care about the role she plays in your spiritual experience. It would be a rare dj who takes you seriously. It's pathetic that you think through this experience you're receiving a message from the person who's dead. Because you could've found the note at any other time and the only thing for certain is that before she died, your friend planned out how to have some effect on you after her death and knowing your loneliness, she thought you'd receive some comfort from the gesture. She knew you so well she probably even knew that you'd read too much into it.
It comes from the longing (which I earlier called missing) that can only happen when the person you're longing for is unreachable forever. Wanting some contact with her might lead you do something similarly pathetic, something crazy, something absolutely wrong. It helps if you're a pathetic character to begin with. Maybe that's why what I wrote wasn't clear- maybe you're just not pathetic enough, damellon.
Abby
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:06 am
by Red Poppy
So who defines someone as being "pathetic" in life (or death)?
Re: Before You're Sixty-Four.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:09 am
by damellon
Thanks for that Abby.
My confusion comes from my understanding of the word 'pathetic'.
I read 'to do something absolutely wrong' or 'it's tempting to be so pathetic' as implying that there is a rational choice as to how to act.
For me, a pathetic action evokes pity or compassion because reason has somehow been suspended. The person is blinded by something.
That's what makes it pathetic.
And I have done things which could be considered pathetic and no doubt will do so again.
In the grip of strong emotion, I think it's perfectly normal.