leonardcohenforum.com

LisaLCFan wrote:
>I know very little of its past, other than where and when it was built and by whom -- the name of the craftsman who made it is stamped on the inside, but details of his life prove elusive . . . it is an absolute gem in every way, overflowing with charm and character!
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very glad you are getting so much pleasure from your new addition. it has arrived at a good home where i am sure it will not simply hang unused on a wall

not knowing what happened in the past can be intriguing. take an important figure like van gogh for example. it is believed by some that his left ear (he used a mirror to make self-portraits) was not actually cut off by himself. there circulates a story that his artist friend paul gauguin injured it during a sword fight outside a brothel. then, to protect his friend, he claimed that he did it to himself.

it has also been suggested that he didn't commit suicide by shooting himself, but was murdered. and some say that of his more than 900 paintings he sold only one, while others say he sold several.

even the pronunciation of his name cannot be agreed upon. in UK it is 'van goff', in USA it is 'van go', in norway it is 'van gog', etc.

there exists no confirmed photographs of van gogh, but he painted a large number of self-portraits. this sketch is based upon those - although i wouldn't be surprised if it looks nothing like him. "if you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." -van gogh

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 4:12 am ...take an important figure like van gogh for example...

Van Gogh (I pronounce it Van Go) is one of my favourite painters -- I love his work! I always remember the first time I saw some of his paintings in an art gallery -- I had previously only ever seen pictures of them: they were so vivid and fresh, so alive, the paint was so thick and textured, the brush strokes so clearly visible, looking as if Vincent had just finished painting them. It was a transcendent experience, I was completely in awe, and I remain so. I love many paintings by many different artists, but there is something about Van Gogh's work that has always resonated very deeply with me.

As for not knowing things about the past, with respect to artists/artisans and their works, it certainly does not take anything away from their wondrous creations -- their music or paintings or instruments or poems/writings or whatever it is that they have made speak for themselves. The Keats poem to which you recently alluded fits Van Gogh's paintings as aptly as it fits my "new" guitar, and many other delightful things!

A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.

Here is a lovely, touching moment from the Dr. Who episode, "Vincent and the Doctor", in which Van Gogh visits the Musee d'Orsay in 2010 (bearing in mind that it is sci-fi/fantasy involving time travel!). Bill Nighy's little speech about Van Gogh is wonderful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubTJI_UphPk

hello lisa.

i agree with all that you and bill nighy say about van gogh (i pronounce it 'goff'). absolutely an artist in my 'top ten', along with warhol, dali, bosch, bacon, kandinsky, pollock, lichtenstein, etc., etc.
yes, a very emotional dr who scene - and effective use of the kryolan tear stick.
as for keats, before moving to scandinavia i was a member of london's keats-shelley memorial association, and a frequent visitor to 'keats house' in hampstead. together with byron my favoutite trio from the romantic era. i am aware that makes me sound like an intellectual, the opposite of what i really am.

will keep this brief. just wanted to acknowledge your message and say how much i enjoy your comments
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no good sketch of nick cave, but at least i try.

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:32 pm ...before moving to scandinavia i was a member of london's keats-shelley memorial association, and a frequent visitor to 'keats house' in hampstead. together with byron my favoutite trio from the romantic era. i am aware that makes me sound like an intellectual, the opposite of what i really am...

No, it doesn't make you sound like an intellectual, it just makes you sound like a person who likes Romantic-era poets!

An intellectual wouldn't worry about whether or not they sound like an intellectual (the thought probably wouldn't even cross their mind!), and rather than simply stating that they like Keats and Shelley, they would be more inclined to provide an in-depth analysis of some minor detail from the lives or works of those poets, explaining the similarities and differences between them and their poetry, comparing and contrasting what they believe to be important and relevant matters of style and imagery that have contributed to their popularity and longevity and how those factors have established their place in the literary canon, and why any or all of that compels the intellectual in question to enjoy their poetry and be a member of the Keats-Shelley Memorial Association. Or, perhaps an intellectual would simply question why the memorial association is called "Keats-Shelley" rather than "Shelley-Keats", debating the merits of the former versus the latter, and provide a detailed historical overview of every Keats-Shelley Memorial Association in the world!

LisaLCFan wrote:
>No, it doesn't make you sound like an intellectual, it just makes you sound like a person who likes Romantic-era poets!
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thank you so much for this, lisa - and for the reassuring continuation of your post.

why keats' surname comes first in the keats-shelley memorial association's headings is a good question. it could be to maximise its phonetical value, as the flow would be less harmonic should there be a 'k' two thirds of the way in ('shelley-keats').

the letter 'k' has a hard sound, and is actually a plus when coming after someone's first name. less so, perhaps, when being the latter of two hyphenated surnames. there are exceptions, of course. i am no expert in such matters, but it probably has to do with things such as inflection/accent/intonation, etc.
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"i need you, i need you, i need you NOW!" -leonard cohen

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:40 pm LisaLCFan wrote:
>No, it doesn't make you sound like an intellectual, it just makes you sound like a person who likes Romantic-era poets!
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thank you so much for this, lisa - and for the reassuring continuation of your post...

"Reassuring"? You make it sound like being an intellectual is a negative thing! Whew, close call, thank goodness you avoided that!

Seriously, though, what's wrong with being "an intellectual", and why is this something that you are concerned about? An intellectual is merely a person who thinks deeply and logically about things, they enjoy contemplation and introspection, inwardly exploring the many facets and complexities of whatever captures their attention -- they are inquisitive and curious and enjoy learning and expanding their knowledge and understanding of things, which they do easily and often thoroughly and comprehensively. Being an intellectual is not simply about what interests one has, but in how one thinks about one's interests -- the depth and complexity of their thought processes is what makes them "an intellectual".

However, I prefer to use the adjectival form of the word, and to say that a person is (or can be, at times) "intellectual", rather than using the noun form, because one can have many and varied adjectives attached to their persona (perhaps not all of which would be categorised as "intellectual"), whereas to call one "an intellectual" seems limiting, placing a restrictive label on a person, which may preclude and/or ignore other facets of their individuality. I see labels such as that to be problematic because it is quite likely the case that these labels may mean different things to different people -- not everyone will have or agree upon the same definitions -- and thus there may be a variety of positive or negative connotations attached to a label, depending on who is using it. For instance, you seem oddly concerned about being labelled as an intellectual, making a point of saying that you aren't, which is really bizarre to me, but clearly the label has some significance for you, which kind of proves my point that labels can be destructive and unhelpful, and perhaps they should be avoided.

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:40 pm ...why keats' surname comes first in the keats-shelley memorial association's headings is a good question. it could be to maximise its phonetical value, as the flow would be less harmonic should there be a 'k' two thirds of the way in ('shelley-keats').

the letter 'k' has a hard sound, and is actually a plus when coming after someone's first name. less so, perhaps, when being the latter of two hyphenated surnames. there are exceptions, of course. i am no expert in such matters, but it probably has to do with things such as inflection/accent/intonation, etc.

I find it slightly more awkward to say "Keats-Shelley", because of the two "s"s in succession: one is forced to enunicate them separately, with a clear stop between them, in order to avoid slurring the "s" of Keats with the "Sh" of Shelley (if one does not say it with the stop between them, it sounds like "Keatshelley" -- one loses an "s"), whereas "Shelley-Keats" can easily and smoothly be pronounced as a single, undivided word, without a clear stop between them, and not losing a letter in doing so. Perhaps that may be one reason why the names have been arranged that way, to be sure that people separate them! Shelley was the older of the two, which to me would make it more reasonable to put his name first. Also, putting one person's name first can imply an unequal partnership, with the name listed first being considered more prominent for some reason, although that is not always the case. Perhaps the first person to establish a "Keats-Shelley Memorial Association" simply flipped a coin! If you ever learn why the names have been arranged that way, please do let me know, for I am genuinely curious about it!

LisaLCFan wrote:
>You make it sound like being an intellectual is a negative thing! . . . Seriously, though, what's wrong with being "an intellectual", and why is this something that you are concerned about?
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thank you for another gem of a message, lisa. they enrich my everyday existence more than anyone knows!

being 'an intellectual' is not a negative thing, quite the opposite, but it does have a ring of superiority about it. of course we need thinking people who explore complexities, and i am not amongst them.

as has already been mentioned, i do suffer from imposter syndrome, so that could also be a part of this equation. however, being an invisible person whose only label is 'ordinary' allows me to blend into society, making me feel safe and accepted. you and i both know that i am neither 'intellectual' (adjective) or 'an intellectual' (noun).

similarly, people ask: "what is wrong with being called an 'artist'?" it's an identity that makes me feel uncomfortable, a snob, not only because of norway's janteloven, but also because it's a corrupted label. to me art is imaginative expression - many of my pictures lack exactly that.

>If you ever learn why the names (Keats-Shelley) have been arranged that way, please do let me know, for I am genuinely curious about it!

i have written to them and asked. i am sure it will be the first time anyone has asked such a question. people don't usually wonder about that type of thing. will let you know if i receive a reply

i can't remember anyone ever asking why beatles' songs are written by lennon/mccartney and not mccartney/lennon.

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:09 pm ...being 'an intellectual' is not a negative thing ... but it does have a ring of superiority about it...
people ask: "what is wrong with being called an 'artist'?" it's an identity that makes me feel uncomfortable, a snob...

It is interesting that you associate the words "intellectual" and "artist" with superiority and snobbery, instead of simply considering them to be judgment-free descriptors. For me, an intellectual is simply a person who thinks in certain ways, while an artist is someone who does art, and I do not think that that makes either of them better than anybody else: being intellectual or artistic is just a fact about a person, it's just the way they are, they were born like that, they had no choice! If somebody thinks that it is superior or snobbish to be intellectual or artistic, then that says a lot more about the person who feels that way than it does about anyone to whom those characteristic are ascribed.

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:09 pm ...being an invisible person whose only label is 'ordinary' allows me to blend into society...

You know, I somehow doubt that anybody who knows you thinks that you are "ordinary"! Personally and firstly, I'd hate to be thought of as "ordinary", and secondly, if what you write here is any indication, then you are not ordinary, and nobody is likely to think that you are! And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! (Is anybody ordinary? I am not even sure what that means, except that I am pretty sure that I am not ordinary, and thank goodness for that!)

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:09 pm i have written to them and asked. i am sure it will be the first time anyone has asked such a question. people don't usually wonder about that type of thing. will let you know if i receive a reply

I always wonder about that type of thing (and most other things). But, thank you for enquiring, and yes, please do let me know if they answer!

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:09 pm ...i can't remember anyone ever asking why beatles' songs are written by lennon/mccartney and not mccartney/lennon.

I have had discussions with people about that! Sir Paul talks about it here:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... dit-36633/

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:09 pm ...thank you for another gem of a message, lisa. they enrich my everyday existence more than anyone knows!...

A gem, eh? Glad you think so!

LisaLCFan wrote:
>I always wonder about that type of thing (and most other things). But, thank you for enquiring, and yes, please do let me know if they answer!
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good morning. they answered quite quickly.
google tells me that 'luca' is probably an italian male first name, the female equivalent being 'lucca'. i have no idea why suzanne vega says her name is 'luka'.

i will write later as i now need to prepare for a meeting later this afternoon.
https://youtu.be/fIGBlFdSxTk?si=VgGlSSLwjP9cHazr

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 12:29 pm ...good morning. they answered quite quickly.
google tells me that 'luca' is probably an italian male first name, the female equivalent being 'lucca'. i have no idea why suzanne vega says her name is 'luka'...

That was quick! Their answer makes sense -- thank you for that!

Yes, Luca is an Italian male first name. There was a rather memorable scene in The Godfather about a character named Luca Brasi (he sleeps with the fishes).

I know why Suzanne Vega says her name is "Luka"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luka_(song)

i have read several times your post about 'ordinary', and understand that we have different opinions concerning snobbery and superiority - and that's fine. instead of going back and forth i will just reaffirm my wish to be thought of as ordinary, or perhaps 'normal' is a better word. to be thought of as anything else removes me from my comfort zone.

the paul mccartney article was interesting, so thank you for the link. he says he has accepted that lennon's name comes before his, but one can feel the bitterness beneath that acceptance. he begrudgingly accepts it.

yes, the keats-shelley association wrote that their name arrangement was simply following the order of the alphabet. talk about 'occam's razor'!

thank you also for the suzanne vega link. you are a wizard at finding the exact information needed. i had no idea the song was about child abuse. a bit of a coincidence really, because that was precisely the theme of the meeting i have been to today.

here is a picture made early this morning, but time hasn't allowed it to be posted before now.
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i bid you farewell, don't know when i'll be back!" https://youtu.be/B3xtEqp9pYA?si=Kiedyk8urAEY7CGd

That was a strange video ("George Johnston and Leonard Cohen 1960 ~ Australian Encounters").

Another photo, this one from last night. I saw this beautiful new family of Canada Geese -- those tiny goslings are probably only a day or two old! The adorable little gosling who is standing up appears to be in a yoga pose! The adult goose who is watching me was also hissing at me -- I was careful not to get too close!

LisaLCFan wrote:
>Another photo, this one from last night . . .
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beautiful photo, five sweet little things with their protective parents! i think it was wise not to get too close, because adult geese can attack, as i'm sure you know - especially if they have babies nearby and you hear hissing. glad you stayed at a safe distance and didn't alarm them. you were in the right place at the right time, and your camera/phone captured a lovely moment. thank you for sharing.

even though it's currently only you and i who appear in this thread, i believe there are others who enjoy following

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2024 3:10 am even though it's currently only you and i who appear in this thread, i believe there are others who enjoy following

I look every day!

Alan