leonardcohenforum.com

Fraud, of course I know that "Freud" is not his real name. I'm not stupid. Just as I know your real name isn't "Fraud" or "Ceetoo". ANd just as I know that "Lady Midnight" (who recently joined) or "Contant Sorrow" isn't their real names either. Your point doesn't make sense. And I don't care if Young Dr. Freud has posted under another name. You have posted under another name. That makes you a hypocrite. And you state that you have never posted to "incite" and that you never post with a "hidden agenda". Excuse me, but I have posted on the Poetry Section and entered poetry competitions too. And as "Ceetoo" you did post to incite and you did have a hidden agenda. You were full of anger to Critic2. And you confused Dr. Freud with Critic2.

So now you come to this thread to continue your pursuit/fight. So don't be a hypocrite. Argue if you want too. But don't pretend that your's is the noble cause. And your new pen name is aptly chosen. And you remain (in more than name) a fraud.

Ok, let me be more precise. I see this stuff and nits and nats.

I have not posted under this name to incite. You are totally correct, I did post under ceetoo to incite. And as I indicated earlier, it was done as part of the character development. If I had wanted to "hide" I certainly wouldn't have done that silly "ditty" stuff as YdrFraud that I had done as ceetoo.

And my anger towards C2 was quite obvious, so I wouldn't call it "hidden". But, again, it was as ceetoo and not as this name.

I didn't criticize Freud for the potential that he posts under multiple names, merely pointing out that I should not be held to a different standard than he is. Opinion: the posts were criticizing me for using a "mimic" name, and I merely pointed out that I'm not the only one using an unreal name.

So, no, I don't see the hypocracy. I didn't criticize him for these things, merely pointed out to him and others that we should be held to the same standards. Irritating you does not constitute a definition of hypocracy, and I don't think I need to make another surf over to Webster's online dictionary like I did with "patriotic", "hatred" and whatever the other word was, I forget.

Oh yeah, I don't think I have a "noble cause", your words and opinion of my posts, not mine. I've been laying myself out there actually, look at my posts on "Our Town" and my dad and my opinions on my country. Just because I'm confident doesn't make me arrogant. This is only an Intenet forum, its not life and death. I'm just having fun, and if any member of this forum doesn't then, well, (opinion) they should figure out something they enjoy when they're not working.

Opinion: I do not believe I have "confused" Freud with Critic2. If you would like to believe they are two different individuals, fine. I have already stated my case as to why I think they are one, and if they are not why it really doesn't matter based on Freud's behavior.

Ultimately, my use of this name may soon fade, just like ceetoo did. What happened over there is that the C2 persona toned down, and I didn't feel the need to be so silly. I would have already stopped posting as YdrFraud except that people like Nan, bee, and Linda have been engaging me in different ways, and as I want to keep my "regular" name to myself (as I've already explained) I have no other way of responding except for this.

Net effect: If Freud chills (as he has for the last few days) and all of you (koolaiders or not koolaiders) let it go, I have no raison d'etre, as the French would say.

Bon appetite!

YdrFraud

[/u]

Hi Lizzy,

Sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to you regarding St. Squidge. I thought that I had her address here on my computer from the New York event but I couldn't find it I did notice a person by her name when I did some Google searches in Harvey, LA. I don't know if it is the same person. I didn't list her as a missing person on any of the sites as I suspect that she got out in time and knowing her personality I'm not prepared to answer her, should she ask me why I didn't think she would make it out. I think the world of her, but she doesn't cut you a lot of slack-if you know what I mean. Not me, but some people I know are still smarting from some of the repartee on the old newsgroup.

Not that you need it-mind you-but let me add again here, how much I admire your great spirit and the welcoming attitude with which you greet everyone here in this forum. I admire all who put their hearts and minds out there and accept the criticism that comes with it. I have a hard time with that. I'm getting ready for one of my annual wilderness trips-I think I may have mentioned something before about my buddy who had a stroke earlier this year and now has his doctors clearance to travel to this remote area. It is his new boat and he has to teach me to navigate it should anything happen to him (God forbid). We will leave very early on Wednesday morning and be gone through the weekend. He's an LC fan from way back but doesn't know much of Leonard's recent material so I plan to play quite a bit for him on the trip up. This is the first time we've been able to travel together as he has a new truck that will fit us both (and we're trying to save gas).

He's not very political-though I suspect that he voted for Bush. I'll avoid any reference to looters. He's now located all of his missing in-laws-in fact, one of them drove up and is staying with him. His relative is a young man who stays up late at night with my friend's son and greets him as my friend leaves for work in the morning. It's a strange circle that we live in.

I'm looking forward to seeing eagles and loons and hopefully a muskellunge. Take care.

Love,

Joe

Young dr. Fraud wrote: Opinion: the posts were criticizing me for using a "mimic" name, and I merely pointed out that I'm not the only one using an unreal name.]

Excuse me again. Others may have an "unreal name, true, but you chose one mimicing a member's name. There's a difference in an "unreal name/penname and choosing one in hopes of ridiculing a member of the forum. Young dr. Fraud is micmicing Young dr. Freud. Sound like a case of jealousy to me. Isn't imitation supposed to be the sincerest form of flattery?

I am not "irritated". I am giving an "honest and true opinion" of you and your behavior. So perhaps you should "let it go". I'm am sure you would still have a reason to be.

Really, Mr.Fraud- what do you fuss so much about and around? Nan pointed the main objections out to you very well, think about it and you'll see that she is right. When picked out YdF name in a fashion you did is mimicking, is in poor taste and total lack of originality.(you were even bragging about it, godness ) Have some new and bright idea and everyone will adore you, drop that mr.fraud idea as soon as possible and forget all about it.

Bush and Bush on vacation(-from Imus in the Morning)


Vacation
All I ever wanted
Vacation
Had to get away
Vacation
Meant to be spent alone
--The Go-Gos

That photo looks so phony!!

Harvest Helps Community Contribute to Hurricane Relief September 7, 2005

The Harvest Jazz and Blues Festival, which for more than a decade has showcased top artists from Louisiana, announced today it will help the Fredericton community contribute to relief efforts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
The Festival will work with the Red Cross and Louisiana musicians to generate funds for the relief effort.
The Festival will contribute $5 on every ticket sold between now and the event to all performances featuring Louisiana artists Kermit Ruffins, Cyril Neville and Tab Benoit. The Festival will ask those artists to select a non-profit charity that requires help in the aftermath of the hurricane, which left many of the musicians and their band members homeless.
The city's largest annual event has also invited the Canadian Red Cross to establish donation collection stations at key locations during the Festival.
"Over the years, the people of Fredericton and the organizers of the Festival have developed a deep connection with New Orleans and Louisiana. It's been heartbreaking to hear what's happened, especially to our friends in the music community. We knew right away we needed to find a way to help," says Phyllis Prendergast, chair of this year's Festival.
Remarkably, the three festival headliners have stated that they intend to honor their commitment to performing at the Festival, despite Neville and Ruffins losing everything they own in the hurricane. In some cases, not all their band members have been found following the tragedy.
"Given the unbelievable effort these artists are making to perform in Fredericton, we want to contribute to the relief effort in a personal way on their behalf, so we're asking Kermit, Cyril and Tab to select a charity and we'll donate $5 from each ticket," says Prendergast.
Each of the shows feature world class musicians in what now promise to be deeply emotional and powerful performances.
Cyril Neville and the Uptown All-Stars, from New Orleans, will perform at the Pardi Gras show in the Bud Light Blues Tent Friday, Sept. 16. Tickets are $25.
Bluesman Tab Benoit, from Houma, LA, will headline a double bill Thursday, Sept. 15, with John Lee Hooker Jr. in the Aliant Mojo Tent. Tickets are $18.
Kermit Ruffins and the BBQ Swingers, from New Orleans, are set to perform two shows on Saturday, Sept. 17. The first show by the trumpet virtuoso with a traditional repertoire is called "This is New Orleans" and is set for The Playhouse at 7:30pm. Tickets are $25.
Ruffins and BBQ Swingers second performance will at the Midnight at the Hoodoo show at 12am in the Massive Graphics Hoodoo House. Tickets are $8.

Yes, it does, Tri-me. Whoever did the 'merging' forgot to at least put murky waters between the standing bodies of the Bush's. However, it is quite in sync with some of the realities ~ one being Bush signing autographs[!?! ] in the midst of one of his 'reconnaisance' trips.

Dear Joe ~

Thank you for your kind and gentle post.

I'm ready for the criticism St. Squidgy might level on me for my concern. Perhaps, I can share it with her former co-worker/friend in California . All I care is that she's alive, well, and able to criticize. I don't have to labour under the pre-knowledge of knowing that she cuts people little slack. Perhaps, she'll 'forgive' me my concern. I tried calling both numbers [hers and the one, other remaining one] again, this morning. No answer at hers, but no 'disfunctioning' message, either.....always a good sign. At the other, I got an answering machine. I left a message with both my numbers, and my hope that those at that number fared the hurricane well, too; and hope for a call-back. Since it would be long distance for them, I'll try again, tonight.

It is his new boat and he has to teach me to navigate it should anything happen to him (God forbid).

I pray that it's a peaceful, uninterrupted trip for both of you. He's at least doing all he can to minimize the risks.

He's an LC fan from way back but doesn't know much of Leonard's recent material so I plan to play quite a bit for him on the trip up.

This promises to be a wonderful, and additionally-bonding trip for you and your friend. Wonderful going into the wilderness in this fashion. Please let us know what he thinks of Leonard's more recent material.

He's not very political-though I suspect that he voted for Bush. I'll avoid any reference to looters.

Y
Yes, probably better to stay away from politics and focus on friendship and fishing. This is too volatile at this point, and it's been too long since you've seen him and spent time together. Increased blood pressure would also be contra-indicated for his health.

I've 'just' met a woman [on Saturday] who it looks like may become a good friend. She seems to be quite Christian, given her verbiage. I haven't broached the fact, that I'm no longer one, with her, yet. Plenty of time for that. If I'm right in that, I know where she's at, as I was once pretty devout. So, I expect she may try to convert me back into the fold; however, at this point, it's really non-negotiable. Since [if she does] I understand her 'compulsion' to do so, I'll be able to handle it better than someone who's never been there, and hopefully keep the friendship intact.

I say 'compulsion,' as it's an expectation that believers minister to others, pray for them, and try to bring them into conversion. A friend of mine in the Keys solely credits me for 'bringing her in,' which ultimately resulted in her discontinuation of an affair in the midst of her separation from her husband [she and her three children were living with me at the time]; the reconciling of/in her marriage; the putting back into place [of] her family unit; and the ultimate conversion of her husband. What I wasn't able to accomplish in speaking with her regarding the detrimental effect of her affair, her coming to church managed to do. I still, and will always, feel good about that situation, even though I no longer consider myself 'Christian.'

One of the comments my 'new friend' made was about the "Blacks in the Superdome murdering and raping others" and that "Whites don't act that way and now they're [the perpetrators] giving all of them a bad name." NOT as a justification for this cited behaviour, but to address the Black vs. White issue, I told her that it doesn't make a difference whether they were Black or White, that the situation in the Superdome was highly stressful and the New Orleans situation could be likened to wartime conditions, where rape is commonly perpetrated, just as it is in wartime. As it's a power-and-control offense, it's also quite possibly a matter of some who are feeling totally lacking in both, to attempt [in albeit a sick way] to regain both.

She also cited the Bible in terms of "maybe this was just meant to happen." To that, I cited the [what I feel to be] appropriate assignment to the breaks in the levees; lack of funding being given for their strengthening, as well as for the rebuilding of the barrier islands, etc. I didn't have [as I hadn't read, yet] the article in the newspaper regarding the loss of churches by this hurricane ~ I'll quote it when I get home tonite, as that's where the article is ~ but it included, pretty much if not all, the full range of faiths the destruction of places of worship.

If challenges are made regarding this being a biblical-based destruction of a 'sin-filled city of New Orleans,' I have to posture that it appears much of the French Quarter was 'spared,' due to its higher elevation, whereas many churches in New Orleans and all along the affected Gulf coast were obliterated [so, perhaps, the ridiculous question should be posed that, "Is G~d tired of all this worship and religious posturing of His flock ~ is He trying to make a point?"

My position is ~ No, this was not 'meant' to happen. Yes, the levees, barrier islands, and other protections afforded to New Orleans, are 'meant' to get re-enforced. That addresses New Orleans. Now, on to the remainder of the Gulf coast destroyed by this horrific storm.

This is the first time we've been able to travel together as he has a new truck that will fit us both (and we're trying to save gas).

Good on the saving of gas. I wish I had more people who go my direction in my daily needs. I'm now about to go to a four-day workweek and was grateful to be granted my request for the particular day off.

I'm looking forward to seeing eagles and loons and hopefully a muskellunge. Take care.

Have a good, relaxing vacation with your friend, Joe. [I just 'got' what I'm guessing triggered Greg's placement of a photo here.]

Love,
Lizzy

Hi Lizzy and Greg-

I hope that I catch a fish as big as "W"'s!

Perhaps I'll not take as much grief about my vacation as he has about his. Seeing that picture made me start to think a bit about the Bush's and for some reason I thought about their relationship to Bill Clinton. From all reports, they like each other on a personal level very much. It seems to have occured from about the time that they attended Clinton's Library dedication. Clinton has been rather mild in his criticism of Bush's handling of Katrina.

I've thought about this now in relation to some of the goings on here in our little corner of the cyberworld and the conflicts and relationships that exist. Then this morning I received an email from one of my colleagues about a subject that I have mentioned previously which has some small relevance.

Here is the text of the email (as some of you in the States may be interested in seeing this program even though you probably can't attend the events):

"All UW-Extension Colleagues:
Here's a brief item from our friends at Wisconsin Public Television.

**************************

This October, the PBS series "American Experience" is presenting a
documentary adaption of David Maraniss' book, "They Marched Into Sunlight".
(The TV program is titled "Two Days in October", because the book title has
been optioned for a theatrical film.) "Two Days" will be broadcast on Oct.
17th.

On October 5, 6 and 7th, The Wisconsin Historical Society, Wisconsin Public
Television (WPT), and in association with Wisconsin Department of Veterans
Affairs, will present a series of community events centered around American
Experience "Two Days in October."

On Wednesday, October 5, at 7 PM at Monona Terrace Lecture Hall, there will
be a Community Forum, which will include several of the participants in the
book and film. They'll have an opportunity to reflect, together with the
audience, on the events of 1968, the consequences and ripples of those
events in their lives, and the broader implications for the country. The
event is free, but reservations are required, by calling the WPT audience
service 800#: 800-253-1158

On Thursday, October 6, at 7 PM at the Wisconsin Veterans Museum, there will
be a detailed discussion of the story of the Battle at Ong Thanh with Col.
Clark Welch, a squad leader with the 2/28 Black Lions wounded in the battle;
Brig. Gen. James Shelton, an operations officer with the Black Lions and
author of "The Beast Was Out There"; and David Maraniss, author of "They
Marched Into Sunlight". The discussion will focus on the details and
consequences of the battle. No reservations are needed for this event.

On Friday, October 7, at 7 PM at the Wisconsin Historical Society (main
building, Library Mall), there will be a screening of the 90-minute
documentary, "Two Days In October". The event is free, but reservations are
required, by calling the WPT audience service 800#: 800-253-1158

For additional information, you can also contact

Moira Harrington, promotion manager, (608) 265-3853
James Steinbach, director of programming and production, (608) 263-1232"



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mention this here because this whole issue of conflict and relationships made me think of the extraordinary scene toward the end of the book where Clark Welch returns to Vietnam to tour the area where the battle and massacre took place. As he is reviewing the area, he is introduced to a Vietnamese man who, it turns out was the General for the North Vietnamese force that formed the opposing side in this battle. Through an interpreter they are able to discuss the events and form an unlikely relationship that transcends their old status as sworn enemies.

There are many elements of synchronicity (as you would say, Lizzy) in this book for me. For example, one of the friend's of the author mentioned in the book, is Dave Wagner. Dave wrote the review of Leonard's concert in Madison in 1970 that I researched and Marie Mazur kindly posted on her site. Here is a link for anyone who may be interested.

http://www.webheights.net/speakingcohen/joeway2.htm

Madison's former Mayor, Paul Soglin, is a prominant character in the book's treatment of the Dow Chemical protests from his days as a campus activist. Paul spoke right after I did at my friend Cal's memorial service.

I also talked with Karl Armstrong last weekend at Taste of Madison. Karl was one of the Sterling Hall bombers who murdered a young graduate researcher. Everyone has an opinion about Karl here in Madison ranging from those who steadfastly refuse to have anything to do with him or his business to those who say that he has paid his debt to society. A very close friend of mine grew up with Karl and played Cowboys and Indians as a child together with him.

Well, this will probably be my last post here for the time being until I return. Thank you Lizzy for continuing to attempt to find out about Squidgy. I didn't mean to imply that she would be critical of you. You are simply more determined than I am and while I remain concerned about her, I am quite confident that she would have had the means to escape and will answer my email in due time (if her email address has not changed).

See you in a week or so.

Joe

Paula, Thank you that was very nice of you to say that.

I read the forum when I am back home and have time, and that does not give me enough time to read much of it, once in awhile a topic attracts my attention, and I will read it and if my dander gets up by a misleading quote by someone, I can't keep my mouth shut. Than one thing leads to another and before you know it I am getting too involved.

I am a Leonard Cohen fan but have to say I do not agree with the politics of quite a lot of the other fans.

I am happy to hear that they think the death toll in the gulf is not going to be as high as originally thought. Has anyone heard a number thus far?

Linda ~

I keep hearing numbers, which are all under 200, but as I answer your posting, I'm not sure whether they're for individual states/locales, or possibly confirmed totals, altogether. I have not heard a projected total [they're saying they just can't do that, yet, until they can do more searching]; except that in Louisiana, it now isn't expected to be the potential "10,000" figure, as originally predicted.

I'm glad to hear that you may go to the area to help [circumstances depending], but as you said, there's much to be done, no matter where you're at.

~ Lizzytysh

Just at lunch, I saw a banner come across the bottom of FOX News, from AP [Associated Press], announcing that Michael Brown, FEMA Chief, has resigned.

To many here [including me], this is not a surprize. I seriously doubt it was anything other than a forced resignation. The spin? Brown was the bad guy, but now he's gone. There are, of course, other spin possibilities.

At any rate, I wish him well, which might include a good job on a horse ranch. Next, I'd like to see Bush get a job on a ranch ~ his own in Texas would be a good place to start. OK, my anger/resentment is still showing, but I'm still glad to see Michael Brown gone from his post [however that actually occurred].

~ Lizzy

Hi Joe ~

Just from the little you've said, it also sounds like St. Squidgy would have the common sense to get out, when she heard that evacuation was advised/ordered. I'll feel best, of course, when someone actually hears her voice or reads an e-mail from her.

Thanks for posting that exceedingly interesting line-up of synchronicities/ironies. I can relate to what's said, there. I think of Corrie ten Boom meeting the executioner of her parents and, despite not forming a friendship, being able to look him in the eyes and forgive.

On a personal level , the anecdotes I have to offer [right off the top] are meeting and becoming friends with the former wife of a man, with whom I had a relationship [and about whom he had spoken much condemnation]; and the subsequent girlfriend of another man, with whom I'd been involved. In both cases, we ended up getting along exceedingly well ~ having more in common than not. In each case, the men involved didn't like it that us two women had become friends .

Certainly, the situations you've described are far more grave ~ but, still, bridges are built to be crossed.

~ Lizzy

I couldn't find this online, so I could provide a link, so I'll just type it out.

It's primarily intended for those who would or who might say that Hurricane Katrina is 'the biblical response and solution to the sin of New Orleans and the casinos of Biloxi.' In addition to so much of the French Quarter apparently being repairable, to eventually carry on, this article shows that this was not a hurricane 'meant to be' to 'wipe out sin':

"Churches Are Gone . . . WHAT of the FAITH?"
Sub-title: Katrina's toll on houses of worship taxes religion's people"

By Jeff Brumley
The Times-Union

Gulfport, Miss. -- Hurricane Katrina truly was ecumenical in her rage.

Discriminating against none, her destructive winds and rampaging waters destroyed the churches of Catholics and Episcopalians, Methodists and Baptists, the Assemblies of God and Churches of God in Christ. Jews, Buddhists and Muslims in Louisiana and Mississippi also were hit.

From New Orleans to Biloxi, denominational leaders, ministers, lay people, the media and the grapevine are reporting destruction on a biblical scale and a resulting diaspora that has deprived most believers of the fellowship and pastoral care they so desperately need.

When added to the loss of homes or loved ones, it is tempting to ask how anyone can maintain a healthy faith in the wake of such catastrophe.

For people already reeling from personal loss, losing the center of their spiritual fellowship only deepens the sense of isolation and loneliness, said the Rev. Edward O'Connor, rector at St. Peter's by the Sea Episcopal Church in Gulfport.

"The whole reason we are part of a church is this thing we call the body of Christ and the family we become by virtue of our baptism, and it's difficult now because we don't have that," said O'Connor, whose church is a gutted shell on U.S. 90.

Such trauma can challenge the most fervent believers, but in many cases the challenge itself strengthens their conviction, said Joseph Hall, 33, a school teacher and Christian who lives in Gulfport.

"That's one of the peculiar things about faith, especially in trying times that cause you to doubt your faith," said Hall, a deacon at St. Andrew Church of God in Christ.

Hall's home was destroyed and his Gulfport church severely damaged by Katrina, but he holds no grudges against the storm or God.

"You're still going to believe that whatever God does, it's still going to work out," Hall said during a pizza break Wednesday while putting tarp over gaping holes in the church roof. "Faith is just trusting sometimes when you have no reason to trust."

The article continues, but this is the first section of it, and makes the point I'm concerned with, that this was not something directed toward the areas that are considered by some people to be 'sinful.'

The continuation of the article had the sub-title of "Churches: They start own healing." The caption beneath one of the photos, that of a gutted church, says: "Many places of worship along Mississippi's Gulf Coast, including First Baptist Church in Gulfport, have little left to work with in the wake of Hurricane Katrina."

~ Lizzy

You bring up an (which may have been brought up before and I haven't read it) interesting subject, Lizzy.

I don't believe any mortal on earth can say this was the wrath of "anyones" God against sin, or to say it isn't. We don't know.
We are all sinners and if the hurricane is God punishing we are in for a ride. Never hurts to prepared for that ride however.

Why does God allow suffering of innocent people is an interesting topic.

It is my opinion that adversity strengthens you faith. When things are going great we have a tendency to forget about our higher power and rely on ourselves.

Don't you think that the media and others stretched the disaster a bit, with the blame game? I know that it is major, no doubt about that. But hearing the death toll would be way over 10 thousand, 45 thousand body bags being sent down there, rescue efforts were totally botched, on and on. From what I am seeing now, I question some of information that came out of there by our media.