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Hi Kush,

She can really write and sing and entertain. I too like "Coat of Many Colors,"
and will check out the links you posted. Thanks for posting them. I like her
personality too. I'd better sign off; it's a really busy day. Hope your day goes
well. Take care.

Good evening, Kush and Steven!

Over here in the UK prevails a rather negative, stereotypical idea of country music (not amongst other forum members I'm sure, but definitely amongst philistines like me). The only country music that has ever been played on general radio shows here is Jolene, Stand by Your Man, and A Boy Named Sue (btw I saw the Johnny Cash video of Hurt on a TV docu last night - always so sad and powerful). None of these songs ever gave me any reason to question this stereotype. Willie Nelson has such a distinctive voice that he was always the exception, that rose high above my jaundiced beliefs. Oh yes, correction, the only country music that ever plays on the radio over here is Jolene, Stand by Your Man, A Boy Named Sue, and You Were Always on My Mind. A few years ago I joined LC world, and had to digest the fact that most people here like country. And then Kush you told me about Townes Van Zandt (gasp!), and I had to heartily eat my prejudices. But Dolly Parton!? Oh boy. I'll watch your links, but apart from Jolene only that saccharine Islands in the Stream duet springs to mind. I did see an article about her in the paper last week that said she has contributed much to literacy programs in the US, and also in the UK. So I'm sure she has a heart of gold. But.

Hearing female artists at the mo though, I am considering sending for Patti's most recent album, Play it as it Lays. The, countryish, title track here. She writes fine lyrics this lady:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EyD4ZaiND0

Kush I am saving your cool description of Longing, Convergence etc, for when the Amazon delivers the music. Looking forward much to this journey into a different kind of music sans mots.

About Born in the USA being taken as a patriotic song - the thing is, people generally tune in only to the words of the chorus of songs don't they, and because it sounds like a feel-good anthem (as per the intended irony, I imagine), it's not really surprising. Sometimes I sing along to Elton John's wonderfully catchy tune, (I was) Made in England, as an expression of being happy about that fact, even though the actual song seems to be about being made in England from American musical influences (mind you, that fits, too, ha).

Steven, thank you for the alert to the man who mistook his wife for a hat's book about music. I've seen an increasing number of music articles in new scientist/scientific american in recent years, but had missed any reference to this book; looks like a nice read.

ps As we were talking recently of Bob Seger, didn't he write a song about chess? "Aint it funny how the knight moves..." . I have always admired the poetic way in which the knight moves.

pps I heard this song the other day and noticed how the horn towards the end (from 2.37) is a striking example of how the music can express the feel of a song even better than the words of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bGOlkQQAe0&NR=1

Hi D,

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree on country music and Dolly Parton. Big time . All the songs that you mention are all old favorites of mine. On a technicality, Islands in the Stream is not a Dolly Parton-Kenny Rogers original although their version became the famous one. It was written and performed by the Gibb brothers - Bee gees, a pop group. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcsW9pdSKMs (have you noticed how we flash youtube links just like switchblades?) I dont find it saccharine but if it is then no more so than Surprise Surprise from Springsteens latest album.
DP comes from the same place as Springsteen IMHO - very successful commercially and within the music establishment but yet has kept her musical integrity. No less a persona than Charles Aznavour called her his favorite American songwriter (despite the fact that Dylan has covered Aznavour in concert - 'In Times to Be') and also said he often listens to American country music. As does Leonard Cohen.
well more later.....more links to catch up with...

Hi Kush and Diane,

I couldn't flash a guitar like a switchblade, don't know how to play one.

Diane mentioned the stereotypes associated with country music in the U.K.
They still exist here in the U.S., but less so now that country has expanded
its listenership. I like country, especially the classic songs of Merle Haggard,
George Jones, Johnny Cash. I wake up with current country sounds with
a radio alarm tuned to a country station. I don't know the extent of cross-over
listenership to country amongst Leonard Cohen fans. About Diane's observation
about Seger and chess, guess I'm a pawn for a pun.

Kush mentioned Aznavour. Had a CD of Aznavour's on my player last night.

K, to my ear these country ladies sing in a rather girly and sweet voice, that makes everything sound saccharine. A British female voice is somewhat like a fog horn in comparison. Not surprising that the Gibbs wrote DP's Island: they had even squeakier voices than her, and were quite good sometimes, at wishy washy and saccharine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dRFJ6g-0fo Mind you: I'd like to take you where my spirit flies/ Through the empty skies we go alone/ Never before having flown. Those lines belong in a better tune.

Now you come to mention Bruce, Queen of the Supermarket would have a tinge of saccharine about it, were it not for the f. line.

Steven, have you got your computer out of the box yet, and can you get access to youtube. If so, would you be so kind as to put on a nice Aznavour number. Or even It's Been a Good Year For the Roses - I like that one! Quick. Before Kush posts Tammy Wynette or something.

Diane ..while Steven gets his computer up and running let me offer you a nasal option to your request....here is BD doing CA...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQEyff1vZok

(I was mistaken, the song was The Times we've Known - Les Bon Moments??)

"....I usually play this to myself but I feel like I'm all by myself now." The man marches to his own beat...

Hi Diane,

The computer is still in the box. Am "Waiting On A Woman" (a Brad Paisley country
song that's pretty good, i.m.o. You brought up Tammy Wynette so felt it appropriate to
pun this way) to set it up with me. Access to Youtube still isn't doable from
home. I've never watched Aznavour on Youtube and only have one CD of his. Can't say
I'm a fan, but the sound of his voice makes for some
unusual atmospherics, albeit rarely, around here. Of the songs I've heard, most are
too sappy for me. "The Needle" that he did was ahead of its time as it covered
intravenous drug abuse in an emotional way to an audience that mostly wasn't accustomed
to that kind of topic being sung about. Personally, Neil Young sounds a heck of
a lot better to me, when he sang "Needle and The Damage Done." The
lyrics of "The Needle," aren't all that well thought out and lyrics about
crucifixtion by syringe don't work for me.

Well apart from that cover Kush just linked to, I think I know only "She", which I think is rather nice, passionate, classy. Yes, Needle and the Damage done is a powerful song. Winterlong is one of my fave NY songs. I just like the feel of it. Dum, dum dum, dum, dum , dum dum dum, I waited for you winterlong, you seem to be where I belong. (Kush, my Kadri G cd arrived today, the only one so far, and it is a treat.)

ps Have you heard Steve Earle is bringing out an album of Townes VZ covers?

pps This thread just goes to show that one person's strawberry flavoured water is another person's fine wine.

Hi Diane and Steven,

I found another CD of Emmylou Harris that I have - Red Dirt Girl - and forgotten all about. I put it on and was doing some stuff around the house when I thought I heard a familiar voice. I looked at the CD sleeve and sure enough in the notes for the song 'Tragedy' there it was: Patti Scialfa - duet vocal, Bruce Springsteen - harmony vocal. Its a good album but I thought Stumble into Grace was better.

This thread just goes to show that one person's strawberry flavoured water is another person's fine wine.

That be certainly true - what you find "squeaky" in Dolly Parton I find a "layered light soprano" - whatever floats your boat!

I am not much of a Neil Young fan, but Aznavour is awesome. I had a great paragraph about him by Bob Dylan somewhere but I can't find it anymore. BD raved on and on about the first time he heard Aznavour in it....

Diane ....I downloaded the Kadri Gopalnath album : it is quite meditative, I have used many adjectives for sax before but thats the first time I have found it meditative.

Have a good weekend.

p.s. Yeah I heard about the Steve Earle album but I dont plan on getting it anytime soon. From what I have read he doesnt do anything much different than TVZ....

Kush wrote:what you find "squeaky" in Dolly Parton I find a "layered light soprano" - whatever floats your boat!

It's quite a relief for me to discover that you are not perfect;-)

I wasn't going to post it, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ubee4sieYU was recently number one in the pop charts over here (with characters from a sitcom, played by Rob Brydon and Ruth Jones).

More soon re. Gopalnath. (Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime.)

Edit: I went for a walk along the seafront tonight, just me and my camera, to watch the sun go down. And would you believe it, that tune kept playing in my head. Had to over-ride it with this Chris de Burgh tune, mmmm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zUjMrvrraw. I have never seen Chris dB mentioned on this forum, but he has written some fine songs in his time.

Kush wrote: Diane ....I downloaded the Kadri Gopalnath album : it is quite meditative, I have used many adjectives for sax before but thats the first time I have found it meditative.

It is meditative I agree, and reminds me in that way of kora playing Malian griot Toumani Diabaté and his Mandé Variations album. (Interestingly, Diabaté has been influenced by Indian classical music, it says in his cd notes.)

Gopalnath's cd booklet has about ten pages of interesting text. After explaining the structure of Indian classical music it says, about the ornamenting of notes:

..there are grace notes (gamakas), the way of sliding into, decorating and ornamenting a note...The Natya Sastra (the extremely early Indian text on music) says:

"Music without gamakas is like a moonless night, a river without water, a creeper without flowers, a woman without ornaments."

And, about the deeper sax notes it says, There seems to be some special fascination with, and connection to, the lower (manthara stayi) octave in Carnatic saxophone playing. Some reviews are quoted about how captivated Gopalnath's audiences have been by the 'sub-bass register' in his concerts. One example: The music of Kadri Gopalnath would make a stone melt and he can do anything with the bass except eat it.

It's satisfying to read about the poetry and depth of this music. I don't know what cd you have, but I have Kalaimamani, and my fave track is the 25 minute long Ragam, Tanam, Pallavi. The track is exquisite, and builds to a mind-blowing climax (Edit: at least, it does at the volume I was playing it at:-).

Anyway, yes, maybe we should get back to Bruce...

Hi Diane,

I downloaded the one that Rudresh mentioned - Saxophone Indian Style. I dont usually go much for the meditative stuff but this was very interesting to me. There are variations and 'ornamentations'. I was very intrigued with the concept of ornamentation of notes in that interview and kept visualizing it in a physical sense and how it manifests itself. Very cool. I have heard the CD only a couple of times while doing other stuff but will hear it properly with the attention it deserves when I get a chance. I enjoyed reading the text that you have posted from the liner notes.

Really enjoyed that little clip with Tom Jones - his is a mighty oak of a voice although it doesnt really show on that little clip. Chris de Burgh I thin I was familiar with the name but had never heard him

yeah we can get back to Bruce if he would actually come out with a decent record in the meantime here is a nice cover of Jolene by Norah Jones and her Little Willies band, much more bluesy than the original.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za0LdtXo_WM

I like covers that change things up rather than be true to the original which is why Steve Earle's album doesnt interest me, atleast for now.

I have to agree with Kush over the Steve Earle TVZ cover album.
Both Steve Earle and TVZ can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. Love all their work. Even managed to see TVZ once here in Liverpool many many years ago and have seen Steve dozens of times
I've been playing the album for two days now trying desperately to enjoy it but it's neither one thing or another.
Brilliant songs and a brilliant singer, but that sad, beautiful and lonesome voice of TVZ just keeps coming to mind while Steve is doing his best with each song.
A case of two positives making a negative...and don't forget Henning's next Tower Of Song Festival next yeat is dedicated to the work of Townes Van Zant....be there or be square.

Diane.....
confession time.......my sister bought me the new Springsteen album last Christmas and I still haven't played it.

I simply loathed his Seeger album which I think is the reason for my reluctance in breaking open the cellophane on this one.

I will force myself to play it before I see you in September:-)

Ta Ken

Ken, Working on a Dream is not one of his better albums so as you are not a fan I don't expect it to blow you away. Your detestation of Seeger Sessions is concerning, though. That's Bruce's best 'recent' album imho, and the gig I saw of it was right up there with LC Dublin in the rain. There's never any accounting for other people's peculiar musical tastes, or lack thereof.

liverpoolken wrote:that sad, beautiful and lonesome voice of TVZ

Don McClean's Vincent could have been written for TVZ. This world was definitely never meant for one as beautiful as him. Excellent that you saw him. From what you and Kush say, I'll hang fire on the Earle album.

Steven I just saw that you saw Leonard - great!!!

Nice Jungleland reference in your earlier post btw. I would of course never wield a link as a switchblade - but maybe as one of those inflatable baseball bats.

I investigated Emmylou Harris a bit more last night, found her on youtube singing Michelangelo on her tour with Knopfler - very nice! And whilst googling for the lyrics (with a million red silk bandanas instead of one dirty red one), I saw that she got the idea for the song from a poem by Carl Sandburg (dust and mist man). It's interesting so I thought I'd copy it here.

Love Beyond Keeping

She had a box
with a million red silk bandanas for him.
She gave them to him
one by one or by thousands,
saying then she had not enough for him.

She had languages and landscapes
on her lips and on the end of her tongue,
landscapes of changing hills and sunny fogs,
of houses falling and people within falling,
of a left-handed man who died for a woman who went out of her mind,
of a guitar player
who died with fingers reaching for strings,
of a man whose heart stopped
as his hand went out to put a pawn forward
on the fifth day of one game of chess,
of five gay women
stricken and lost
amid the javelins and chants
of love beyond keeping.

Kush, I'll get back on a few things later - after I've done some listening.

Hi Diane,

Wish you could have been at that Leonard Cohen concert too.

I just looked up the Emmylou Harris' song lyrics and don't think Sandburg would have
thought her spinoff of his poem to be shoddy. I hadn't known of the Sandburg
influence.

You mentioned McClean's "Vincent." A beautiful song. Townes Van Zandt passed
away too young. I've a CD of his, "Documentary," I think it may be called, that
features an interview and songs. Emmylou does a great rendition of TVZ's "If I
Needed You," on one of her own CDs. About TVZ and his passing, as relating to
being too good for this world ("Vincent" lyrics): Leonard sang "Boogie Street,"
in such a manner that these lyrics stood out for me: "It is in love that we are
made, In love we disappear." That spiritual sentiment seems to echo the
good thoughts you wrote about TVZ. I like the spiritual content that Leonard's
"Boogie Street" carried for me. They resonate with McLean's "Vincent."

Have a good weekend. Everyone else, the same.