leonardcohenforum.com

Vicomte wrote:

You should have been at the Isle of Wight in the Summer of 1970, not so much a curfew but an extremely long wait for anyone who wanted to listen to LC and the Army

I was. Didn't bother returning to the tent. Stayed put between the light-towers. Those were the days, my friend...

"Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way."
(Mary Hopkin)

Hydriot, you are so lucky to have been there. I now live on IOW and pass the site almost daily and try and imagine how it was then. Needless to say I was a couple of years too late to be there. I have seen the footage and photos and it looked awesome but scary! Eve

Obviously this thread needs to be revitalized. Just returned home from the first Paris concert. Again it was a great evening as for Leonard`s performance and the intimicy of the venue. On the other hand during the whole show we again found ourselves deeply missing Dino and Bob, imagining how perfect this evening would have been with the old band line-up. We have to admit we´re still not accustomed to the "new sound" (and as it seems we never will). In fact yesterday evening we found the violin highly disturbing, appreciating every interval it was not heard. As we mentioned in a previous post it does not concern Alex, who certainly is a virtuous player, but the violin sound on the long run was obtrusive and far too much dominating. For our taste there were only few songs where the violin fitted to ("Dance Me To The End Of Love", "Going home"), while a lot of other songs were close to be ruined by the new arrangement (e.g. "Sisters Of Mercy", "The Darkness"). Maybe it was not representative but we also had the impression that Javier´s stage presence has in a way "faded" and was not as perceptable as in the old line-up. Beside the violin he obviously did not have the space to unfold, and violin AND bandurria in our ears rather compete than complement each other. We never had this feeling in the former interactions between Javier and Dino. In former post we could read about the perfect unit between Mitch, Alex and Javier, sparking off each other. Yesterday we were far away from perceiving something like that. The right wing of the stage rather seemed to be depressive in a subtle way, the three protagonists without any apparent contact.

Hopefully expecting Dino´s (and Bob`s) return to the UHTC,

Gaby & Paul

Have to agree with you Gaby and Paul, although I gather it's not the consensus on this forum.
While I love the violin (my daughter plays it among other instruments) I miss Dino. Like you I don't see the same dynamics on that side of the stage anymore.
Having said that, I'd be more than happy with just Leonard and a guitar

gaby&paul wrote:Obviously this thread needs to be revitalized.

Gaby & Paul

It really doesn't. Everything that is to be said has already been said. You are entitled to your own opinion but it's not Leonard's opinion and it's not the opinion of a great many forum members. There's no point in beating the same old drum again and again and again and ... I think it is pretty unlikely Dino will return on this tour. For goodness sake, let this thread die and just enjoy the music whilst Leonard is still willing and able to play live for us.

wendy

gaby&paul wrote:Obviously this thread needs to be revitalized. Just returned home from the first Paris concert. Again it was a great evening as for Leonard`s performance and the intimicy of the venue. On the other hand during the whole show we again found ourselves deeply missing Dino and Bob, imagining how perfect this evening would have been with the old band line-up. We have to admit we´re still not accustomed to the "new sound" (and as it seems we never will). In fact yesterday evening we found the violin highly disturbing, appreciating every interval it was not heard. As we mentioned in a previous post it does not concern Alex, who certainly is a virtuous player, but the violin sound on the long run was obtrusive and far too much dominating. For our taste there were only few songs where the violin fitted to ("Dance Me To The End Of Love", "Going home"), while a lot of other songs were close to be ruined by the new arrangement (e.g. "Sisters Of Mercy", "The Darkness"). Maybe it was not representative but we also had the impression that Javier´s stage presence has in a way "faded" and was not as perceptable as in the old line-up. Beside the violin he obviously did not have the space to unfold, and violin AND bandurria in our ears rather compete than complement each other. We never had this feeling in the former interactions between Javier and Dino. In former post we could read about the perfect unit between Mitch, Alex and Javier, sparking off each other. Yesterday we were far away from perceiving something like that. The right wing of the stage rather seemed to be depressive in a subtle way, the three protagonists without any apparent contact.

Hopefully expecting Dino´s (and Bob`s) return to the UHTC,

Gaby & Paul

So in all seriousness and in the way you talk about the old band (old band being from 2008-10) as the one band that you like to see with Leonard, then can I ask you, was 2008 the first time you took to LC?

I ask this because to some of us, the band sound was different to any previous tours, namely Dino Soldo. Although I was not greatly put out by Dino playing in the band, indeed on occasion his playing was very good but it was not what I had come to expect from seeing a LC gig. The Violin has played a large part in Leonard's history and after the violinist booked for the last tour said they could not commit to a lengthy tour (sorry I would have to look up who it was to be) I wondered how the band would sound without a violinist. Well I have to say I really did miss the violin but Dino did take the opportunity to show off his undoubted talent and of course LC allowed him to, as he does others in the band, to show those attributes off but somehow to me, it wasn't what an LC band is all about.

As for the three on the right not doing it for you, well of course it's all about one's own musical taste, those three are much more to me what a Leonard Cohen backing band is about and I do get the feeling that those that believe Dino should come back, were not fans of LC much before the last tour because if they were, they would recognise that on LC tours, apart from always having exemplary instrument playing members, it was him and his choice of backing singers that many were interested in because at the end of the day, it is the words we want to hear, the songs that are steeped in history, how many people have shed a tear for those words in the songs that for some, he first sung some 45 years ago and to hear them now is just incredible.

I would miss Roscoe, Javier, Neil, Rafael and a violin player but others may come and go but there is just one person we go to see and as long as he has good backing singers and for goodness sake, of course he would! (mine as some people may know are Julie and Perla) but Sharon and the Webb Sisters are fine by me and no, I do not miss Dino because he is so very recent in LC history and his style of playing for me, sorry it was just not what I honestly wanted to see on an LC tour.

PS. After the Sunday night gig at Wembley, several of us though that that nights version of Sisters of Mercy was amongst the best we had ever hear him sing. As I say, musical tastes differ, I wonder if you have seen enough, or heard enough older "stuff" to know how the Sisters of Mercy sounds best?

Anyway, of course you are entitled to your opinion and so is anyone else and as long as people want to offer their views, then they should be allowed to do so.

Vicomte, thanks for your extensive and respectful response. We´re into LC, his music and his words since many years, becoming more passionate in the last decade, so unfortunately we did not see him performing live until 2008. Although we are quite familiar with the previous tour bands and arrangements, we didn´t miss the violin then. In our perception and having no former live concert experience the 2008 - 2010 arrangements were a perfect frame to Leonard´s masterpieces, with Dino making a major contribution. We never perceived him as being a "poser", being not "humble" enough or standing too much out from the band, as you could read in some posts. Instead in our perception he accompanied Leonard highly respectfully and was perfectly integrated in the band balance, from both a musical und an emotional point of view. -
But at last, as you already said, it is all a matter of personal taste. In any way during the 2008 - 2010 tour we often experienced a magic that we, sad to say, missed in Ghent and Paris.

PS. The violinist who had to cancel the 2008 tour was Christine Wu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoZpUrkosg). Wonder how the band would have sounded with her, but that remains mere speculation.

Mabeanie1 wrote:[Everything that is to be said has already been said.

... but not by everyone
(you see, I fully second your statement)

musicians, selection of songs, arrangement, performance etc.:
I really think this is and should remain the artist´s, Mr. Cohen´s choice
he does not need our advice

curfews:
the group always plays over three hours, sometimes close to four hours, that is generous
it seems to me quite convenient that the concert then is ended by a third party i.e. the curfew and has not be ended by Mr. Cohen against the demands of his fans
do you want the old man to play the whole night?

@Albert
I have been to the Berlin concert (lucky to get first row), I think it was one of the best concerts I have ever attended
(and yes, it was cold, so was Verona)

harald wrote: musicians, selection of songs, arrangement, performance etc.:
I really think this is and should remain the artist´s, Mr. Cohen´s choice
he does not need our advice

I have no doubt that LC would prefer his fans to have an opinion, somewhat better than having zombie followers I would have thought? As for advice, you are right of course, none of us could ever offer LC advice on how to select band members and what numbers to play on the night etc but every person who comes on to this forum is entitled to their opinion, even those who say they want this thread to end, it is still an opinion but as in any debate, a thead never ends until it ends.....

gaby&paul wrote: PS. The violinist who had to cancel the 2008 tour was Christine Wu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoZpUrkosg). Wonder how the band would have sounded with her, but that remains mere speculation.

Christine Wu must have been replaced in 2008 at the last moment, right after Atlantic Canada concerts I talked to a young music producer from LA about LC touring again, he insisted "his friend Christine Wu" was touring with the band, this information was on her website (at that time it wasn't -I checked- but apparently she was very close to be on tour).

A matter of taste it is! My wife liked the 2008-2010 tour better, my own preference goes to the sound of the recent Old Ideas tour. Luckily we do not have a fight about this at home, we both enjoyed the two different tours tremendously. Friends, considering Mr. Cohen’s age, instead of complaining I think we should all really be grateful for the fact that in five years time we’ve had the opportunity to witness not just one, but two different world tours with different arrangements & sound. Who would have dreamt this in 2005?

Another observation: a lot of posts are about Dino Soldo vs. Alex Bublitchi, sax vs. violin. Which I think might not be fair towards the violin player, because it is not the case that Dino was simply replaced by Alex. I have the impression that in the Old Ideas Tour – I was present at the first two concerts in Gent & like many other fans I follow the rest of the tour on this Forum, Facebook & at 1HeckofaGuy.com – the impeccable Neil Larsen on keyboards plays a bigger role in this tour, which I can only applaud. Love his Hammond & other keys.
None of us forum members (except maybe Arlene Dick ) were at the initial rehearsals for this tour. We do not know what is said, what happened or how this band sounded when Dino was still around. We do not know why Dino could not – or, maybe, would not – fit in anymore. We can only guess. And respect the final decision made by Leonard Cohen.

Is this really important?

To me the individual members are not a decisive factor. Decisive is Leonard Cohen and the persons he decides are the best for a given tour. Also no one will ever know if another set of persons would make a better concert.

The concert as we see it is the best concert and no one will ever know whether replacing sax by violin will give a better concert.


Anyway, I have now seen this tour 3 times and enjoyed the music of Leonard & Band every moment.

When I first read the announcement that Dino would not be in the I was very surprised, I just assumed he would be especially since Leonard had early on said this band was the only one he would have. But I was curious to hear this new sound that was being touted and even by Dino himself.

So I watched a few videos from the current tour and quickly formed an opinion. I then stopped watching the videos because
I knew I would be seeing Leonard and the band fairly soon in Verona. I had decided I would keep an open mind and try to be as objective as I could. I was actually looking forward to hearing the violin and seeing how this instrument would be incorporated into the songs.

Now I was not a huge Dino fan, I did not need to have seats over on the Dino and Javier side. And I at times thought he could be a bit over the top but I admired his musicianship. This being said I was surprised at how much I missed Dino being in the band. And this is not a violin versus saxophone thing, it is much more than that. I think the violin is a great addition to some of the songs but not all of them. I do not think one instrument with a such a distinctive sound should have replaced Dino. He played many instruments that could produce many different sounds and to my ear he sounded good in any song.

But the main thing I missed was Dino's energy,it radiated from stage right to the whole band and it was infectious. The band was tight and they all seemed to enjoy themselves. In Verona I looked to the right stage and saw three guys sitting in chairs except for the solos of these three not much going on. They have about as much energy as a chamber music ensemble and there is definitely to me no chemistry between them. A wink, smile and a nod does not make chemistry.

Someone said to me in Verona that Alex would come into his own. I think what we see is who he is. Verona was the 24 th concert and I don't really see him Changing much. This is who he is which is fine but with Mitch also being mild mannered and with them sitting in theirs chairs I find them bland. I also look over to the Sharon and the Webbs and they now seem more subdued. Maybe this is the plan.

I was told that I need to respect Leonard and not question his decision to make changes. And also just because something is different doesn't mean it can't be as good as before. Well I have nothing but complete and utter respect for Leonard as an artist and a person. No other artist has affected me so much with their music, words and humility as Leonard. I think most of here admire Leonard's awareness of his humanity. I don't think he wants us to blindly accept everything he does without us forming our own opinions. And hopefully he would accept that not all us will like some of the changes that were made.

I was happy to see Leonard in Verona but out of the 15 concerts I have seen this was my least favorite and for the reasons I listed.

Marsha