There is something very weird for me going on here. I am having trouble reconciling the author in this thread with the author of this one.
viewtopic.php?p=21986&highlight=#21986
Maybe its the jetlag, but I feel like there is something fishy going on.
GEORGE W. BUSH
-
Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
The headlines in today's New York Times carry the words - Bush - Iran -Nuclear - Containment - and -
In an eerie repetition of the prelude to the Iraq war, hawks in the administration and Congress are trumpeting ominous disclosures about Iran's nuclear capacities to make the case that Iran is a threat that must be confronted, either by economic sanctions, military action, or "regime change."
And so it continues (as we said it would)
To add a simple and poignant counter-balance to the kernel of this particular thread, please note that 1,000 children die in Africa from Aids related illnesses, every day. Their parents having passed it on to them. The West is doing what it can, but I wish the West would put as much effort into helping these children, as it does in making war.
Before the usual suspects accuse me of 'not doing anything,' or 'hiding behind A.I.' or whatever else they want to throw at me in a random fashion, I do actively support non-governmental agencies in their fight to help such children. No ! I ain't no saint, but I do what I can. The olde english tythe system would be an admirable way for the West to render assistance. Coincidentally, a very similar system continues to work, all around the world.
In an eerie repetition of the prelude to the Iraq war, hawks in the administration and Congress are trumpeting ominous disclosures about Iran's nuclear capacities to make the case that Iran is a threat that must be confronted, either by economic sanctions, military action, or "regime change."
And so it continues (as we said it would)
To add a simple and poignant counter-balance to the kernel of this particular thread, please note that 1,000 children die in Africa from Aids related illnesses, every day. Their parents having passed it on to them. The West is doing what it can, but I wish the West would put as much effort into helping these children, as it does in making war.
Before the usual suspects accuse me of 'not doing anything,' or 'hiding behind A.I.' or whatever else they want to throw at me in a random fashion, I do actively support non-governmental agencies in their fight to help such children. No ! I ain't no saint, but I do what I can. The olde english tythe system would be an admirable way for the West to render assistance. Coincidentally, a very similar system continues to work, all around the world.
-
Teratogen
- Posts: 1653
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
- Contact:
to add to byron's first little paragraph, i'd like to say that in my history class right now we are going over world war II. on the topic of hitler and mussolini, my teacher gave a definition of "fascism" from some dictionary as being "big business and government helping each other out, dictatorship of extreme right, and belligerent nationalism." i had a sad smile on my face, a sick kind of smirk, and my teacher saw it and smiled back, because she knew what i was thinking. HOW FAMILIAR THAT DEFINITION SOUNDS! and to add to that, we watched a video on the holocaust and the rape of nanking today in class, and a historian in the video said that basically what the germans did to the jews was a PRE-EMPTIVE ATTACK ON WHAT THE GERMANS THOUGHT WAS A THREAT TO THEIR CAUSE.
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
-
Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
T, my first little paragraph was a straight cut and paste from the New York Times. Starting with 'Bush' through to 'regime change.'
To those who would wish to disagree with me, please write to the New York Times. I am dreading the next 4 years. Arafat has left a vacuum. Sharon can't even keep his promises to his own people, whatever you think of him. And have a look at his history.
Men in powerful positions will find a 'cause' for maintaining their power. It doesn't matter one iota what reasons or religion they espouse. Once they have enough power, they no longer consider themselves to be accountable for their thoughts, decisions and actions. If you don't agree with them you are spurned and cast aside as so much waste matter in their eyes.
They hold the view that everything they decide to do is right and beyond reproach. It is not something that is even up for discussion. Theirs' is the way, the truth and the right.
The last couple of years have seen discussions on this Forum, which none of us would have dreamed of in our worst nightmares. Horrors have been commited by evil men. Responses have been swift and bloody. We look behind us at a road littered with dead bodies and blood in the gutters. Every death commited in the name of G-d.
T, History is the same road. I guess you learned more today than you realise, yet. It doesn't matter what 'side' any of us is on, because we each believe we are right. Men and women have been thinking those same thoughts since Adam was a lad. Cain and Able are still with us and unfortunately, always will be.
We have to get through the next 4 years and trust that peace can grow.
To those who would wish to disagree with me, please write to the New York Times. I am dreading the next 4 years. Arafat has left a vacuum. Sharon can't even keep his promises to his own people, whatever you think of him. And have a look at his history.
Men in powerful positions will find a 'cause' for maintaining their power. It doesn't matter one iota what reasons or religion they espouse. Once they have enough power, they no longer consider themselves to be accountable for their thoughts, decisions and actions. If you don't agree with them you are spurned and cast aside as so much waste matter in their eyes.
They hold the view that everything they decide to do is right and beyond reproach. It is not something that is even up for discussion. Theirs' is the way, the truth and the right.
The last couple of years have seen discussions on this Forum, which none of us would have dreamed of in our worst nightmares. Horrors have been commited by evil men. Responses have been swift and bloody. We look behind us at a road littered with dead bodies and blood in the gutters. Every death commited in the name of G-d.
T, History is the same road. I guess you learned more today than you realise, yet. It doesn't matter what 'side' any of us is on, because we each believe we are right. Men and women have been thinking those same thoughts since Adam was a lad. Cain and Able are still with us and unfortunately, always will be.
We have to get through the next 4 years and trust that peace can grow.
OKAT...thanks for a little balance
teratogen - "agent causing malformations".... or did you mean to name yourself Tetragon (4-sided intellectual)... or Estragon...who is still waiting for Godot?..... you need a life; now you know how the rest of us felt during 8Clinton years, who is still today in denial about what caused his demise (ref. ABC interview)... but then Mexifornia will soon be in the hands of "Aztlan" anyway.... buena suerte amigo!
Byron: what is the Army trained for if not "war" and is not war 'deadly' occasionally.... what a cop-out! The Military, to Europeans, apparently is an "alternative work program"...
I think Bush will be credited for cracking the hegemonic theocratic states of the Muslim world; after all they have promised to convert us "infidels" if we don't stop them
Not all of us "reds" agree with all that George has done or is doing; he had the right idea about cleaning house, but he and his staff failed to have a post-Saddam plan. Kerry has none either....ergo 
The loose immigration attitudes are changing the basic character of America right in front of our eyes....I fear. I would have voted against Bush for this alone, but Kerry is even worse in the socialism department... 
Midnight: I saw the same France2 program; I have 3 observations about our European friends:
a- they avoid war at all costs, compromise with the devil is better than war (damn George Jr!) (Chirac got rich selling his soul to Saddam)
b-notice how the Euro press hung around the euro-Kerry camp and never traveled and never interviewed the "heartland"..ergo: shock surprise... the same guys who think the NYT is the US "Paper of Record", representative of "middle" America. Barnier said it correctly: how little we understand America of today
c- notice how the anchor kept pushing and hoping his "guests" including the new Foreign Minister M.Barnier would say some horribly damning things about America... and the future of the world. Yes Levy did understand that Chirac and Schroeder are breathing a sigh of relief..... no obligation to offer any help to its uncouth and barbaric American friends....
teratogen - "agent causing malformations".... or did you mean to name yourself Tetragon (4-sided intellectual)... or Estragon...who is still waiting for Godot?..... you need a life; now you know how the rest of us felt during 8Clinton years, who is still today in denial about what caused his demise (ref. ABC interview)... but then Mexifornia will soon be in the hands of "Aztlan" anyway.... buena suerte amigo!
Byron: what is the Army trained for if not "war" and is not war 'deadly' occasionally.... what a cop-out! The Military, to Europeans, apparently is an "alternative work program"...
I think Bush will be credited for cracking the hegemonic theocratic states of the Muslim world; after all they have promised to convert us "infidels" if we don't stop them
Not all of us "reds" agree with all that George has done or is doing; he had the right idea about cleaning house, but he and his staff failed to have a post-Saddam plan. Kerry has none either....ergo The loose immigration attitudes are changing the basic character of America right in front of our eyes....I fear. I would have voted against Bush for this alone, but Kerry is even worse in the socialism department... Midnight: I saw the same France2 program; I have 3 observations about our European friends:
a- they avoid war at all costs, compromise with the devil is better than war (damn George Jr!) (Chirac got rich selling his soul to Saddam)
b-notice how the Euro press hung around the euro-Kerry camp and never traveled and never interviewed the "heartland"..ergo: shock surprise... the same guys who think the NYT is the US "Paper of Record", representative of "middle" America. Barnier said it correctly: how little we understand America of today
c- notice how the anchor kept pushing and hoping his "guests" including the new Foreign Minister M.Barnier would say some horribly damning things about America... and the future of the world. Yes Levy did understand that Chirac and Schroeder are breathing a sigh of relief..... no obligation to offer any help to its uncouth and barbaric American friends....
Last edited by mdidier on Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
Life is the final riddle, we all give up on it eventually...
Joe Way- thank you 
I don't think you have to worry about your daughters, unless they are in the army. I dont see the draft coming.
What you said about Israel is correct- I happen to have some friends living there as well. My friend Rachel goes every year to visit her mother there, and she's never afraid. She always says- all in Gods hands. what we see on TV sometimes are only the bad things, we never see the fun and good times ~ how people are enjoying life. Still- it's all there inspite of every danger
I don't think you have to worry about your daughters, unless they are in the army. I dont see the draft coming.What you said about Israel is correct- I happen to have some friends living there as well. My friend Rachel goes every year to visit her mother there, and she's never afraid. She always says- all in Gods hands. what we see on TV sometimes are only the bad things, we never see the fun and good times ~ how people are enjoying life. Still- it's all there inspite of every danger
bee
-
Teratogen
- Posts: 1653
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
- Contact:
mdidier: it is TERATOGEN, just as it is spelled. yes, you know your definitions, how admirable. and how much worse was clinton than bush? i can't say i agree with everything clinton did, but i can say i disagree with everything bush does. what's a worse lie:
"i did not have sexual relations with that woman, miss lewinsky."
or...
"saddam hussein has weapons of mass destruction--the world's deadliest weapons--which pose a direct threat to the united states, our citizens and our friends and allies."
???? which is worse?
in fact, i am going to poll that.
bee: i used to think the draft wasn't gonna come back around, but there's been some uneasiness going around friends and family about it. but who knows. with republicans in more control than they were the past 4 years now, bush might get away with it, even though the bastard promised there wouldn't be one. i will be 21 in january--prime target for the draft. and fuck if i'm going to some desert to serve for a cause i don't believe in.
"i did not have sexual relations with that woman, miss lewinsky."
or...
"saddam hussein has weapons of mass destruction--the world's deadliest weapons--which pose a direct threat to the united states, our citizens and our friends and allies."
???? which is worse?
in fact, i am going to poll that.
bee: i used to think the draft wasn't gonna come back around, but there's been some uneasiness going around friends and family about it. but who knows. with republicans in more control than they were the past 4 years now, bush might get away with it, even though the bastard promised there wouldn't be one. i will be 21 in january--prime target for the draft. and fuck if i'm going to some desert to serve for a cause i don't believe in.
oh what a memory you have ...estragon.... let me count the 'scandals'
watergate, filegate, travelgate, missed opportunities getting UBL,
non-reaction to the Cole attack, phony weapons-ban (at home)...murder of trusted aide and others testifying against him in Watergate...
playing the UN-Inspection-Game adnauseum...doing the Euro's dirty work
in Kosovo (still not resolved)....
oh one relatively good thing he accomplished, sorta... peace between Arafat and Sharon; actually that one got away too...
what the hell did he do??????? ah, I know.... he did nothing, letting the market work without government intrusion ..... and he was riding the Reagan/Bush boom ...... lucky bastard, I say! Euros love inaction: I know I grew up as one and have been a born-again 'merican! for a while...hallelujah!
watergate, filegate, travelgate, missed opportunities getting UBL,
non-reaction to the Cole attack, phony weapons-ban (at home)...murder of trusted aide and others testifying against him in Watergate...
playing the UN-Inspection-Game adnauseum...doing the Euro's dirty work
in Kosovo (still not resolved)....
oh one relatively good thing he accomplished, sorta... peace between Arafat and Sharon; actually that one got away too...
what the hell did he do??????? ah, I know.... he did nothing, letting the market work without government intrusion ..... and he was riding the Reagan/Bush boom ...... lucky bastard, I say! Euros love inaction: I know I grew up as one and have been a born-again 'merican! for a while...hallelujah!
Life is the final riddle, we all give up on it eventually...
-
Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
I believe that the 'discussions' about the prevailing political and military situation have reached that nadir that we can call eristicism. Accordingly, I shall depart the field and await the emergence of a Renaissance man, or woman, possesing those perspicacious attributes, which will deaden the current plangent ululations.
I bid you adieu.
I bid you adieu.
that's exactly why we disagree on this issue.Kush wrote:Survival of the fittest. Breeding a culture of competitiveness on a global level is what "globalization" is about.
i'm not no-logo freak. i think Naomi Kline is lying no less than those she opposes, and she made her name into a logo, the same thing she hates so much.
BUT we should be better than this survival of the fittest by now. we no longer need to fight for survival. actualy, all we need to do to survive is NOT fighting.
this 'breeding a culture of competitiveness' made us want faster cars, biger houses and more expensive cloths, and i just don't see why i would want those in the first place. it's about creating needs in our subconcience by comercial industry etc. very ugly thing if you ask me.
and to go to war and kill for money. sounds wery much like Hitler to me.
everybody's quoting rock bands these days, so here's one by Carter USM:
THE 90s REVIVAL
You know how on TV they use squares to hide their faces
Well if you squint your eyes you can recognise the rapists
The murderers and scumbags with notches on their bumbags
For every sad and lonely life theyÕve ruined with a Stanley knife
Dead on arrival...the 90s revival
Survival of the fittest, the fattest and the richest
God save her travesty and call the next Jehovah's witness
A child of the sixties born in the nineties
A Siamese triplet from the test tube of a mad scientist
Born dead on arrival for the 90s revival
And yea though I walk through the alley in the shadow of death
I shall fear no evil, because I AM evil
So bring me some aspirin, some rope and some Valium
Turn on the gas rings and call the Samaritans
And sit back and take in the gospel and bible
Of the lip smacking, jaw breaking, rip roaring 90s revival
-
Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
"In 1571 Edwin Sandys, a former Marian exile, and the Bishop of London, preaching to members of Parliament in Westminster Abbey: 'This liberty, that men may openly profess diversity of religion, must needs be dangerous to the Commonwealth ... One God, One King, One Faith, One Profession, is fit for one Monarchy and Commonwealth. Division weakeneth: Concord strengtheneth ... Let conformity and unity in religion be provided for; and it shall be as a wall of defence unto this realm'."
And he was only talking about the threat from the catholics.
http://www.flemingmultimedia.com/Geneal ... andys.html
Note the Virginia connection.
And he was only talking about the threat from the catholics.
http://www.flemingmultimedia.com/Geneal ... andys.html
Note the Virginia connection.
Sorry Jurica we totally disagree 
. But then I do not see the world as bleakly as you do either.
Necessity is the mother of invention (this is wisdom of old) and I believe the best and worst of not only human species but all species come out when they are up against it.
Love may be the engine of feelin' good but I am not quite sure if it is the engine of survival. My bet would be on competition being the engine of survival but then I could be wrong of course.
How do you know that? Did someone from high above tell you that it is time to move on? Survival of fittest is how every surviving species has thrived for millions and millions of years pretty much since the beginning of earth time and those that didnt adapt died or fell prey to others. A 80 year old philosophy cannot change that.
But I agree with you that there are excesses of capitalism that needs to be worked on and guarded against. On the other hand capitalism has also democratized technology and education to millions around the globe even if there are millions going hungry right now. Small steps.
Consider the fact that the earliest life (single celled organisms) appeared about 3.8 billion years ago. The earliest modern human fossils date back to only about 150,000 years and earliest civilizations appeared only about 8000 years ago. And the internet age (where we sit around in our armchairs and pontificate mightily) is only about 10 years. So modern society is very much in infancy and like infants we are still figuring things out - creating and destroying without much thought. Give it time.
. But then I do not see the world as bleakly as you do either. Necessity is the mother of invention (this is wisdom of old) and I believe the best and worst of not only human species but all species come out when they are up against it.
Love may be the engine of feelin' good but I am not quite sure if it is the engine of survival. My bet would be on competition being the engine of survival but then I could be wrong of course.
BUT we should be better than this survival of the fittest by now
How do you know that? Did someone from high above tell you that it is time to move on? Survival of fittest is how every surviving species has thrived for millions and millions of years pretty much since the beginning of earth time and those that didnt adapt died or fell prey to others. A 80 year old philosophy cannot change that.
But I agree with you that there are excesses of capitalism that needs to be worked on and guarded against. On the other hand capitalism has also democratized technology and education to millions around the globe even if there are millions going hungry right now. Small steps.
Consider the fact that the earliest life (single celled organisms) appeared about 3.8 billion years ago. The earliest modern human fossils date back to only about 150,000 years and earliest civilizations appeared only about 8000 years ago. And the internet age (where we sit around in our armchairs and pontificate mightily) is only about 10 years. So modern society is very much in infancy and like infants we are still figuring things out - creating and destroying without much thought. Give it time.