School Of Dust

[Mark A. Murphy]

L, once more, 'a considered opinion' in whose opinion?

[Mark A. Murphy]

L, what unites us as human beings? I am not certain, love perhaps? What unites us as human beings on this forum? Perhaps that we consider ourselves to be 'fellow travellers'? Perhaps that we share an interest in all things pertaining to Leonard? I that thought I might be lucky enough to meet some 'fellow travellers' here, people I might even like to call friends in time. My enthusiasm to communicate with other Leonard fans by sharing a few poems here and there has since been negated by prohibitive and prescriptive comments like yours. I'm guessing that you did not write the rule book on poetry, but that the rules are in a constant state of flux.

I thought I would find bonhomie here, but I am sorry to report that I have found mainly intellectual posturing and negativity from people like you. I assumed (falsely, it seems) that fans of Leonard Cohen (presumably, the people here) would share his humanity, or feel humanised in some way by his writing and his humility. Your scholasticism is destructive rather than instructive and relies on the 'reviving of ancient nothings' to score points against people like me that make postings here in good faith.

[Manna]

Mark,
I'm sorry you feel that way about Laurie. She's fairly abrasive with her crits, I know, but I think she really does mean well. I thought her suggestion was sound as well, though her delivery could have been better. I also get the impression that a person who can stand up to her will gain her favour. And of course, someone willing to take harsh criticism seriously will also become a better writer. And there's the fact that if a poem isn't worth finishing the read, it isn't worth writing a crit either, so yours at least tend to pass that test. Have a look while you stand next to yourself, and see if there's any truth for you in her thoughts. Is that not what you want others to do with what you write?

I don't know if anyone here is interested in criticizing your humanity, just your poems. It's hard to separate that and take things impersonally. You seem like a fine chap, with a sound soul. The things you write tend toward humanizing, and I admire that.

It's my experience that the poetry board is one of the most unstable. Sometimes there's really no critiquing at all, while other times it gets pretty heavy. Stick around, won't you?

Also, don't forget about the Montreal School of Poetry. (Is that what they called it?)

[Mark A. Murphy]

Manna,

I have accepted both the critiques from Mickey and Jimmy and may well re-write this as a prose poem, but I will not surrender myself to the posturings of someone who calls my words 'tired and lazy'. This piece is a meditation on the theme of survival, it may not be particularly well written in some people's estimation, but the nature of the narrative is urgent in that it asks the reader to stand in an uncomfortable place. I wonder if people like Laurie ever ask of themselves these uncomfortable questions, or are they so sure of who they are, so arrogant that they feel themselves beyond reproach?

[Jimmy O'Connell]

Yeah, Mark... hang in there.
This place can be crazy. It gets quiet, as Manna says, and then, all hell breaks loose... Pretty much mirroring humanity, wouldn't you say???

Suck it up and use the pain...

Jimmy

[che]

"Oh, Laurie you are so wrong. Wystan Churchill was a good orator but not a great poet."

mickey_one, this is brilliant so funny. You are a clever man with words. I laugh very much at this.

[~greg]

This is what we are,
and there will be no forgiveness at the end of time,
only an eternity of fairy dust.

I like that.

[Byron]

Perhaps 'star dust' would lend to the air of eternity?

And of course, the Truth !

[mat james]

Manna says,

You seem like a fine chap, with a sound soul.

Manna, did you have a chat and a cup of tea with Wyston the orator!

Mark, I didn't enjoy this piece at all. It is too didactic for me and the intent is to make me, the reader, worthless and hopeless.
Have you read "Man's search for meaning" by Victor Frankl ? He was an emptier of gas chambers and survivor of them as well. He talks of the moment between stimulus and response as being an opportunity for choice, "the final freedom". When tortured, he discovered that he could choose his response.
He teaches us, beyond the horrors, that we can make choices, even in our darkest hour. That doesn't mean that we will survive, we may choose to go down fighting or just spitting.
But if you are alive and well and not in some dreaded chamber, make a choice. Chase the sunshine.
I didn't enjoy your piece at all. But it made me think, reflect and recognise an opposing view.
I am not worthless and I am not hopeless.
And neither are you.
Keep writing.
Regards,
Matj

[Mark A. Murphy]

Matt, thanks for your honesty. It was not my intent to make people feel worthless and hopeless, just to question what it is they would do to survive. I saw a documentary on survival behaviour during plane crashes, the experts said that it is human instinct to panic, to trample and fight to get out, but that the best way to survive is to stay calm and exit the plane without panic, which goes against the survival instinct of fight or flight.

When the Zeebrugge ferry went down, one man who didn't survive, acted as a human bridge enabling some of his fellow passengers to escape. I am sorry if it seems that I am passing judgement. As I have said, this piece is meant to be a meditation on the nature of survival. The didactic and declamatory tone is meant to stir the reader into positive reflection. I have quite a positive view of human nature actually. I'm not a believer in the 'war of all against all' hypothesis. I think human beings in the 'state of nature' are largely communal and peaceful beings.

[Byron]

I seem to remember that he did survive. He's a big, tall man and so was able to be the 'bridge.'
My memory isn't what it was though.

[Mark A. Murphy]

Byron, i will try to find out what happened to the 'human bridge' guy. His heroism (call it what you will) always stood out for me. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I met an old man who had fought in WW2 in the African desert. One night his patrol fell upon a mine field, all of his comrades were killed, except two men. One of the men had been blown in half, he was screaming for his mother. And then he begged his comrade to shoot him. When I asked the old man what he did, he refused to answer me. That old man was my grand-father. He was a tank driver and the war ended for him when he drove into Berlin with a victorious Russian tank division.

I have often wondered about the man who had been blown in half. Did he bleed to death or die of shock, or did my grand-father do as he had requested and shoot him? I will never know. My grand-father has been dead many years. I may try to write this story out one day, if I ever feel brave enough. What would I have done in that scenario?

[lizzytysh]

Hi Mark ~

Just for the record, I haven't found you to be a difficult person, at all... and I'm baffled that some are referring to you in the third person as being such. Don't they know you're here and, if at all, they can say it to your face? Your poem got a bit of controversy swirling, but it seems to me you're staying pretty grounded. If some want to compare you to another great, but difficult, person from the past, there's nothing to say they're right on both counts... so let's just go with their being right on the great . One's reaction to critics circling a poem doth not a difficult man make.

Your grandfather had to deal with some horrible stuff in WWII. I have a feeling I know what he did, but you're right that we'll never know for sure.


~ Lizzy

Edited to add the word "to," which somehow got deleted.

[Mark A. Murphy]

Poetica

Tell the truth.
At least, tell your own truth.
And afterwards
accept whatever comes:
they may tear your favourite page,
they may shatter your door with stones,
or people
may crowd around your living body
as if you were
a prodigy or a corpse.

Heberto Padilla

Hi Lizzy, there is much to think about. This poem ought to stir the hyena's!

[In_betweenthegrey]

May i interject a piece by EE Cummings

A poet is somebody who feels, and who expresses his feelings through words.
Though this may sound easy - it isn't

A lot of people think or believe or know they feel
But that's thinking or believing or knowing; not feeling.

and poetry is feeling - not knowing, believing, or thinking

Almost anybody can learn to think or believe or know
but not a single human being can be taught to feel. why?
because whenever you think or you believe or you know,
you are alot of other people; but the moment you feel,
you're NOBODY_BUT_YOURSELF
______________________________________________________

In like lightening,
crashing down
rattling my existance once more

Questions of doubt seem to eclipse
what truly remains beneath
the crumbled rock and smoldering ash

The only thing i've ever known
holds no obligation
and questions of doubt remain.

Tina Lea