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Hi Lizzy,

Thanks for posting the title. I hadn't thought the "length of the title sort of
approximates the relative size of the bird," but, yes, it does. And that the
smallness of the bird is so disproportionate to its potential affect upon
others, is telling as well. Smallness, the sensitive young Leonard seemed to
communicate, is no hinderance to greatness of affect when properly placed in time and
circumstance. It's kind of like a gentle, well placed word or other "small" gesture.
-- At the right moment and circumstances, powerful and not so small in what
may be generated.

There is a nature preserve that is dedicated to raptors (eagles among them). It
is the site where hunters in decades past had gathered to shoot them, prior to
their being protected by law. Shooting of the birds was another example of
white man's folly and was not unlike the mass decimation of buffalos for
"sport." More than animals were lost. That an "eaglet" can awaken a
sensitivity that can help to avoid greater pain in the poem's warriors is
poignant. Leonard didn't oversentimentalize the eaglet's "still-born"
status, though. That he didn't is tribute to the subtlety and worthiness of the poem.

On a lighthearted note: Leonard probably wouldn't mind if people were to conclude
that the poem is implying that size doesn't matter.

Yes, the word "Item" is also an impersonal reference; yet, in his treatment of it, it shows the stillborn bird to be otherwise.

Smallness, the sensitive young Leonard seemed to
communicate, is no hinderance to greatness of affect when properly placed in time and
circumstance. It's kind of like a gentle, well placed word or other "small" gesture.
-- At the right moment and circumstances, powerful and not so small in what
may be generated.

Very well said of what's so true, Steven.

. . .that size doesn't matter

Height and girth are not the measures of a man. Some go the Napoleonic route with the hand they're dealt, and others go Cohenesque with the body gift they're given. What matters is the man.


~ Lizzy

lizzytysh wrote:

Smallness, the sensitive young Leonard seemed to
communicate, is no hinderance to greatness of affect when properly placed in time and
circumstance. It's kind of like a gentle, well placed word or other "small" gesture.
-- At the right moment and circumstances, powerful and not so small in what
may be generated.

Very well said of what's so true, Steven.

. . .that size doesn't matter

Height and girth are not the measures of a man. Some go the Napoleonic route with the hand they're dealt, and others go Cohenesque with the body gift they're given. What matters is the man.


~ Lizzy

That's all very well for those of you who have size, girth, stature, breadth, depth, width, insight, perspective, good eyesight... but what about this poor dishevelled creature and his cloned ilk? ----------------------------------? (on the right of yer screen and up a couple of inches, oops ) wearing modesty, aplomb, and nothin' else--------------------------------------------------------------------------->

Lizzy,

You've noted that "'item' is also an impersonal reference." Whitman's utilization of
a leaf of grass to transcend the limitation of the personal seems not too distant
from what Leonard Cohen did by appropriating the eaglet. Thanks for yet another
interesting observation.

Byron,

That he is cloned suggests that others find him lovable just as he is. That ain't
a bad thing for him or them.

Stephen, Alber says you're his newest best friend

I just bought a John Denver 3 CD set from one of the "big box" stores. Wasn't a great
feeling to hear the checkout guy say, "John Denver? Never heard of him." Anyway,
playing "Rocky Mountain High," the lyrics, "I know he'd be a poorer man if he never
saw an eagle fly," stood out in terms of this thread. And the eagle would be a poorer
eagle, it would also seem, if he/she didn't soar.

Oh yeah, the reply to the teenaged register guy was that John Denver was popular
when I was in High School. There are words, music, people in our past and present
that allow us to soar, and at times, help us to stay aloft, or comfortably grounded
(pun intended). Some of John Denver's music was one of those positive sources
for me. Here's to a wish that everyone connect with what is helpful and good.

"John Denver? Never heard of him."

This feels like this when I think of it at face value. It feels like when I think that this is not a guy on the street, but one who is working in the music store where your bought a 3 CD set. I would have thought, or at least hoped, that at least somewhere in the zone where real life and a job where you're working directly with bins of music every day intersect, that he might have at least heard of John Denver . Have jobs become so compartmentalized that one works the register and another the floor and stocking?

Yes... Rocky Mountain High... Country Roads... a number of them buoyed me, too, Steven.

Such a great lyric for this thread .


~ Lizzy

Dearest Lizzy,

I'm sorry, my description of the store wasn't clear enough to indicate that
it wasn't a music store, but was one of those very big warehouse type
places that sell everything from tires to cakes. The bad feeling arose because
I'm at the age that younger people don't know of people
like John Denver. But, now that I think about it, it's also kind of sad that
he's never been buoyed by him, too. Hopefully, there are more current
popular singer/songwriters that serve him equally well.

Agreed that it is a great lyric for this thread. Funny thing, though, were
it not for this thread, my ears would not have perked up to really hear
those lyrics. Glad I did, of course. My thanks to Adam and the other
participants here that sensitized me to them.

Boy, do I feel better . Thanks for clarifying all that . "Big box" I took to mean a major record store. Maybe he'll go home and check him out on the Internet now. Yeah, you're right, every generation has their own dinghies and lifeboats. Still... wouldn't it be lovely if he could listen to him? Funny, too, how it did highlight those lyrics for you.

I was feeling a bit disheartened about our educational system when I was spelling out my name for a young woman. It's a hyphenated one, so I said the first part of it first and then said, "hyphen... " and she put an apostrophe. I've become 'too' used to this, so without alarm, I calmly said, "no, a hyphen, like a dash... " and she put a comma. I left it alone. At least she had to get a sheriff's clearance for the job she has.


~ Lizzy

Hi Lizzy,

My grammar and usage weren't/aren't all that great either. Of our educational
system, the lyrics of Simon and Garfunkle come to mind: "When I think back
to all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all." And,
the woman who didn't know what a hyphen is, likely didn't get much
"emotional intelligence" education either (not that her lack of hyphenation
ability is indicating this). It was largely lacking when I was in high school and
it still is mostly ignored.

On the educational slant in this progressing thread; the evidence is now officially recognised in the US Government. NO! this is not me 'having a go' at the US Government!!

During the Gulf War, (I cannot recall which of the 2 wars this piece refers to) the military men in charge of tank regiments, found that their tank troops were having great difficulty in operating the newest version of the US Tanks. The reason was that the troops were unable to understand the 'written manuals' which they were issued with. These were 'operating manuals' that are something like the extensive manuals we get when we buy a new car. The authors of the manual had to re-write it so that it could be understood by the troops, who it transpired had an average 'reading age' of 10.

This is also apparent in our country, where university tutors have been raising the problem of the new cohorts of undergraduates arriving at university, with a woeful lack of sufficient educational basic skills in their chosen subjects. For example, a group of 20 history students were asked what century the Reformation took place, and only one answered correctly. (Look it up for yourself and you'll remember. That is how I remembered it. Or, as we were told on our first day at uni.,if you listen you hear it ~ if you read it you remember it ~ if you do it you understand it)

Hi Byron,

The lack of education that you speak of reminds me of a professor of education
that told me she is not looking forward to working with a group of new students
in a graduate course she is teaching. The reason she gave is that they want to
be taught and she doesn't like "lecturing" (saying that they should acquire
the learnings through the texts alone). Now, she wasn't thnking critically in
saying this to me. But the truth is that this women, with decades of teaching
experience, was revealing a lack of personal engagement in a process, despite
it being her undertaken responsibility to, one would think, model some sort
of passion and standard of excellence to the future educators she is
entrusted to teach.

The engagement of different senses in learning (that you mentioned) can be
helpful for many people.

I understand your point about the lecturer friend of yours. It is impossible to generalise about a topic that is so important and requires a degree of inter-personal skills. Leaving them 'to fend for themselves' may have been a sweeping statement on an 'off day.' Having a 'personal tutor' throughout their time, may be the way for them to negotiate/approach the challenges (problems - as we used to call them) as they attack their chosen studies. I assume they chose their specialist subjects. Having a 'teacher' who doesn't want to 'teach' says far more about the establishment than about her.

Byron,

I agree "it may have been a sweeping statement on an 'off day.'" It was jarring,
though, coming from a person that I know in other capacities to be conscientious,
competent and personally dynamic.