leonardcohenforum.com

Tc = Lz sounds like a Bable-Fish translation, Lizzy Should you have tell me before that "Lz" gives you the itch I would have removed this torn (which I did not know it was) from my posts. Just too bad, though, I think that "Lz" is so cute. Well. Consider it is gone.

No "h" but a "t" and that is enough to imagine the rest - how deeply human this conversation is. May I suggest that you use "Tctl" or "Tchoc" if you absolutely want to use a "short cut" to name me?

mgunin wrote:Well, here's that book, I've managed to find the details:

AMICUS No. 11539612
Monograph

NLC COPIES: Preserv - off site - PS8537 M66 P63 1962 - NO ILL

NAME(S):*Smith, Steve, 1943-1964
Brainin, Carole
TITLE(S): Poems / Steve Smith and Carole Brainin
PUBLISHER: Montreal : Printed by Dany's Press, c1962.
DESCRIPTION: [20] p. : ill. ; 20 cm.

NOTES: Cover title.
Desolation is a soul town / by Steve Smith -- Fragments
/ by Carole Brainin -- Poems for lovers and others / by Carole Brainin
-- Fragments / by Steve Smith.
NUMBERS: Canadiana: 000096520
CLASSIFICATION: LC Class no.: PS8537*

Locations Save

It seems there's no trace of this book. Well, it was printed by some kind of private publisher, it seems. Maybe humanponnys would know more. The book has not ISBN number assigned, and so far I got, using "Carole Brainin" as Search Option instead of Steve Smith's name, Carole Brainin has only one book on sale at AbeBooks and similar sites, and it's magazine Forge:

Forge Vol. XXVI, No. 1.
Brainin, Carole (ed.)
Bookseller: Inno Dubelaar Books
(Toronto, ON, Canada) Price: £ 10.04
(EUR 14.50)
[Convert Currency] Shipping within Canada:
£ 3.79 (EUR 5.47)
[Rates & Speeds]
Book Description: McGill, 1964., 1964. First printing. 79 pp., ills., large 8vo, stapled sheets in yellow decorated dustjacket. Owner's name on exterior of sheets (covered by dustjacket), some wear to dj at spine-ends. VG/VG. Bookseller Inventory # 778235

Interesting fact is that leonard himself also piblished poems in Forge magazine in 60s! - Also, this book is offered from Inno Dubelaar, mgunin - he's specialised for Leonard Cohen stuff, so maybe you can send him direct mail re: Steve Smith. If someone can found the book, he's the one. Whenever you need rare Cohen edition, he's also the first guy to ask for it.

Anyhow, I wont search for this one until I receive/read God's Kaleidoscope. Thanks to all for bringing this book back to my attention - I wrote it down I have to find it after humanponysss2000 wrote about it and complete McGill Poetry Series in that recent thread, the thread Tchoco quoted.

[This is not to divert your attention, Tom , but to reply to Tchocolatl ~ the last time you'll see me write that all the way out .]

First let me stress, before I begin my response, that this is serious and nothing here to take offense at. I didn't see "Lz" as being "cute" and not 'uncute,' either, but as being easy. I took it as simply a shortcut. There are many lengthy names here... some quicker/easier to type than others because of how the letters in them align. "Tchocolatl" takes more time and awkwardness than I want to deal with each time, so when I saw you compress Lizzytysh/Lizzy into Lz, I thought, okay that works for me... Tc is sure much easier... even than "Tchoc" [which I started using on my own] ~ not only that, it is literally simply the first two letters of Tchocolatl... so very legit in terms of a shortening.

I've never mind-pronounced, or even considered the possibility of pronouncing your full moniker at "thick a lot uhl" ~ never would. With regard to the "t" being enough to evoke the rest, as I read that, it would actually end up "tic" ~ as in the involuntary muscle movements of the face or body; or "tick" ~ the bloodsucking, infecting creature of the bug world. However, in reality, I've seen it as merely the first two letters of your name here, which presumably [on my part], if you felt it was okay to shorten my name to two letters [not even the first two], then surely you wouldn't mind my doing the same with yours.

"Tctl" is easier, well quicker anyway by one letter, to type than "Tchoc" ~ so I'll try that. Could you live with Tct? Or, even T? I've felt that as long as the abbreviation makes it clear that you're speaking the person's name, it works for me. Sometimes, I'll use a person's full name and my full name to indicate its being a very serious post, PM, or email, though.

I see Bable-Fish translations as all coming through as "It" . Just dehumanized us and everyone else when it came to names, at least as far as I've been able to figure. So "Lz" is sure a step up from that! However, I've never liked "Liz" as a nickname in my real life, as it's always sounded rather harsh to me, and it hearkens to that... the same as "Lizz" directly does with Laurie's writing of my name. Still, it's simply, literally, the first four letters of Lizzy. I've learned to accept and even like it [Liz] with a very few people in my real life [the way they bend it or have a lift in their voice ~ each softens its sound]... Lizzy sounds much softer, regardless, however, and it's my preference. There was one time when I shortened a person's name to make a point, but that person wasn't you. As I recall, that was the only person with whom I've ever done that here.

However, when it comes to shortening of names here, it's just an easier way to go. For correcting you or Laurie on how you 'speak' my name, I've felt there are much 'bigger fish [for us] to fry' than that, so it didn't bear mentioning.

I wouldn't have dreamed that "Tc" offended you and I've been using it for a very long time. I was very surprized to see you bring it up now, particularly when I had just agreed with something you'd said. Yet, when you think about it, maybe that's the 'best' time to broach it and, hence, the reason why.

I've always mind-pronounced Tchocolatl as "Tee ~ chock ~ uh ~ lot ~ uhl," with the initial emphasis on "T." When I've written "Tc," I've mind-pronounced it "Tee see."


~ Lizzy

I'd like to thank Tom Sakic for ideas on where to search further. Letters were sent. Will be waiting for any reply from them.

It is funny to see how those two are doing their business while we are doing ours. Thanks to Steve Smith. They say that one is not dead as long as he is remembered. So Thanks to Leonard Cohen for Steve Smith. Thick, tic, tick, all those sounds sound like Tc to me, so each time I see it it gives on my nerves. Not that I am offensed so much, but as it is not pleasant I finished by associate it with a most unpleasant carateristic - not that tic, or tick are much bettter, though. And Tee see, it is so far from the rich round sound of Tcho-ko-lat-l. Say it loud and quickly : there is a clap of the tongue in the mouth. It gaves an idea of how the Aztecs could have prononced, the sound their language had, they probably claped the tongue a lot - you know that we do not use in the same way the muscles of the throat and the mouth when speaking one or another language. The tongue does not move the same way, then.

The timing? Well i don't know, maybe someting in the stars that has Geoffrey makes a two-storie post for a "perscription" and me finally getting this tick out of my skin. I don't know exactly.

Well, in any case, thanks a lot to have consider the matter. (You can try Tl also if you prefer use just two letters.)

Yes ~ parallel universes, so to speak .

Okay, Tl works really well for me... it looks nice, tall and thin, too. Thanks. With the two-letter deal, it doesn't seem quite fair to expect you to do 5 now; so with a renewed understanding that no offense was meant, I can live with Lz and no offense taken.

True that Tc doesn't evoke at all the true sounds of Tchocolatl... with the differences in language included. Rather mundane, in fact. The tongue is a powerful determinant with languages. The Tc explanation wasn't meant to compare & contrast with the full name, but to make the point that "thick" nor "tic" nor "tick" had ever been considerations. In fact, Tc was still meant to invoke the whole... just not typing the whole thing out, each time... like your not typing out Lizzytysh or even Lizzy, each time.

You're welcome... and, on the timing, better late than never.


~ Lz

You two, ladies, are never diverting my attention I am used to this on this forum, as everybody else, I believe I'll use this opportunity to say that I like Forum these days, it seems it's back again, with Linda, Geoffrey, and only & unmistakable Tchoco and Lizzytysh


@mcgunin
Really, I am thankful for bringing back my attention to Steve Smith. Actually, I like your description of his poetry so you got me interested. Let us know about Dubelaar's answer, or if you ever get some kind of digital copy from Canada.
Also, about your comment how Russian translation of BL is brilliant - recently I had the opportunity to exchange few emails with its translator Mrs. Anastasia Gryzunova. I found her email somewhere on the web. She's nice lady, she sent me recent Russian translation of Cohen's selected poetry, Flowers For Hitler/Cvety dl' Gitlera.

@Tchoco
I see humanponysss2000 back around here - maybe you can get her to say something more about Steve Smith, I have the impression she would know...

Tom Sakic wrote: @mcgunin
Really, I am thankful for bringing back my attention to Steve Smith. Actually, I like your description of his poetry so you got me interested. Let us know about Dubelaar's answer, or if you ever get some kind of digital copy from Canada.

Thank you very much. Actially, the reply from him has been received. He promised to try looking for it. We'll see. As for digital copy, I'm not yet sure where to look for.

Tom Sakic wrote: Also, about your comment how Russian translation of BL is brilliant - recently I had the opportunity to exchange few emails with its translator Mrs. Anastasia Gryzunova. I found her email somewhere on the web. She's nice lady, she sent me recent Russian translation of Cohen's selected poetry, Flowers For Hitler/Cvety dl' Gitlera.

Oh, yes, I know about her. Absolutely brilliant translator. I've read both novels of Cohen and some poems of him she worked on. Also, I often read her diary in LiveJournal. As for poetry, most of work on 'Flowers For Hitler' was made by Max Nemtsov, a translator and editor. Actually, these two worked together on all three books, only roles were different. Nemtsov, in my opinion, is one of the best translators in Russia. He made some great work on Bob Dylan, Kerouac, Bukowski and many others.

Actually, Leonard Cohen was the first poet that I have translated. My own 'collection' consists of two or three dozens of his poems, from various books, including the latest one. I've ordered it on US release date, May 9 (Victory Day in Russia, by the way). It arrived very quickly, in ten days or so. I've worked on some poems from it.

Several works of LC were translated by me in collaboration with Leon Gunin, my relative, a poet and musician living in Montreal. Actually, nothing can be better than working together and sharing ideas. I like what we got.

Michael Gunin

Hey Michael (Mikhail?),

I hope you'll publish some of your work. You can always post it here or open the site in Russian. We miss that - only knowledge about Russian re: Cohen are those countless Russian counterfeits CDs Or you can try with some literary magazines - you can (I believe easily) get permission from Cohen for that (he gives permissions for magazines gladly), using this place (there's mail somewhere, or with Jarkko's intermediation.)

I can't understand Russian except on general Slavic similarity. I myself have some problems with rhymes (can't do them, actually), I am more like prose-type, so I am working on Book of Mercy in my free time, late in the night. I like those moments, sitting in silence with Leonard's talking to the above. But I agree with you, I'll need someone to speak about it, it does urge for dialogue.

Well, can you ask your relative in Montreal to make you copy/scan of Steve Smith's book? It's printed in Montreal, and at least McGill's library could have it.

Sorry, for those who doesn't know: http://www.dubelaar.net/~inno/

We have over 100 Leonard Cohen books (poetry & novels), records, articles, interviews, etc. listed for sale on our website. As you know, many of these are hard to find and out of print. We have everything from cheap paperback copies of Beautiful Losers ($10), Selected Poems ($12), Death of a Lady's Man ($15), Energy of Slaves ($15), Spice-Box of Earth ($20), Book of Mercy ($25), to collectible hardcover first editions. We also have a few special signed copies of his books for the serious collector. Everything is listed on our website: http://www.dubelaar.net (Go to Search Our Inventory and type "Leonard Cohen" in the little box on the right side of the page, then click Go.)
Or email your interests directly. We are located in Toronto, Canada and ship worldwide. Hope to hear from Leonard Cohen fans. Inno Dubelaar. inno@dubelaar.net

There's living Canadian poet Steven R(oss) Smith, so that makes vene greater confusion on Google.

Found this interesting item, from Vehicule Press (1997):

JEWISH CANADIAN ANTHOLOGY
Jerusalem: An Anthology of Jewish Canadian Poetry.
Eds. Seymour Mayne and B. Glen Rotchin.

Beginning with King David, Jerusalem has enchanted and inspired Jewish poets through the ages. Perhaps due to Canada's multicultural heritage, Jewish Canadian poets writing in English have maintained and expressed close ties to Jerusalem in their poems. Over a period of approximately seventy-five years, these poets have produced a unique body of work about the city, unparalleled in scope and volume in any other English-speaking country.

Including: Leonard Cohen, Hyman Edelstein, Marvyne Jenoff, A.M. Klein, Sehl Krakofsky, Irving Layton, Daniel Lowe, Seymour Mayne, Sharon H. Nelson, Carol Rose, B. Glen Rotchin, Lazar Sarna, Stephen Schecter, Kenneth Sherman, Steve Smith, David Solway, Miriam Waddington, David Weisstub, Shulamis Yelin.

Irving Layton

Next Year, In Jerusalem

There is evil
and men are given over wholly
to pride,
pitiless in their reach
for power and glory

Yet Anatoli Shcharansky
didn't betray his comrades
and Ginzburg
ill and defenceless
defied the Soviet empire

Lonely opposing martyrs
in the desolation of their cities
the besotted slavemasters
will recall your words
the falmes carrying on their backs
the furious contempt of Isaiah
Shrivelling their insolence
into black cinders

I kiss your hands;
across steppes and barbed wire
send you my heartfelt greetings

Next year, in Jerusalem!

http://www.vehiculepress.com/jewish_literature.html

On top of that page, there's also anthology of poems dedicated to AM Klein, with Leonard's To A Teacher as the opener:-)

Steve Smith was my mother's cousin. Rebecca Shinen (my mother) passed away one week ago Sunday. As she related the story to me as a child, Steve Smith was poet laureat at McGill. He apparently died of cancer, I believe it was bone cancer. I met Leonard Cohen backstage at a concert in Tel Aviv, Israel and he fondly remembered Steve.
Marco

This post is ancient.
But if any of you still read this.
Steve Smith was my relative as well.

Steve's parents did everything they could do to save him. He has organ/marrow transplants before they were even common.
He was compared to Leonard back in the day as well.

Some have asked, who was Steve Smith? Steve Smith and I were best friends growing up on Wilson Avenue in NDG district of Mtl, from elementary school through West Hill HS and McGill U., where Steve was doing a BA in English, and yes, in Louis Dudek's class on 20thc poetry.

Steve was born in 1943 and died of cancer at 21 years in spring 1964. His book was published just before he died, His book deals with his illness (suddenly discovered bone cancer caused a leg amputation 2 years earlier before he died) and he wrote "Thoughts in the Mind of a Unijambist" -So a part of me is already dead / and I am my own remains". God's Kaleidoscope, the title poem refers to his sudden illness - "When my speck of green turned the colour of Job's dunghill, I looked up to curse/ and saw, through God's kaleidoscope / all turns are just as beautiful"...

Steve was influenced by Irving Layton and Leonard Cohen when he began writing poetry in HS, and befriended them both. After HS, he took a year off to live on kibbutz in Israel.. His book has poems about that experience. He also comments critically on the Montreal young poets who imitated Layton's swaggering style in his poem, "And so it is like in Pharoah's dream, only here the fat swallow the lean..."

Leonard Cohen read his book pre-publication and agreed to do the dedication.

I have wonderful memories of Steve's courage, curiosity and individualism. He went way too soon.

Fred Rosenzveig