Before You're Sixty-Four.

[mickey_one]

mickey_one wrote:
>Is your mum still alive, Geoffrey? You are blessed if she is as I think you are even older than me. Did she speak with a Welsh accent?

She lives, according to an acquaintance who saw her coincidentally some months ago. She was born in February 1923, under a totally different name than the one she uses. She and I have no contact, and apart from some old pictures accompanying a couple of newspaper articles (Sunday Mirror, etc.) I do not know what she looks like. She spoke with various accents, if I remember correctly - it depended upon to who she was addressing. A lot of people do that - to a certain degree. I was born in 1950. Now it is your turn to disclose biographical intimacies, and afterwards pass the ball to a person of your choosing. Call it 'sorting the wheat from the chaff'.

I am always a little hesitant to share anything personal, I guess it is just my nature.

However, if I eventually pluck up the courage then I will pass on this exercise to another one who, like me, has kept his story well hidden.

Yes, Jason/Terry Wogan soon you will have to give up some intimate details.

Meanwhile, thank you Geoffrey. Your mum should be "reet prod o' ya'", son.

[Geoffrey]

Andrew McGeever wrote:
>I feel it works, despite "mum's the word", not understood by those who read a reference to mothers.
>
>"mum's the word": complete silence or secrecy is demanded, or promised. (An inarticulate sound with closing of the lips: partly OFr"!momer", to mum.
>
>Mummers were silent actors before Shakespeare found an audience


Hello Andrew; thank you for this explanation. And to think that Michael and I had been e-mailing each other discussing Oedipus!

[lizzytysh]

This is a common term here, with that meaning... and the way I interpreted it... the hush-hush of it, but what was in question was the 'why' for the hush.

This is not the tale of a tryst, but of desire and longing, based on a very real relationship that existed at another point in time. Important distinctions for those who might impose their morality upon it.

[Geoffrey]

lizzytysh wrote:
>. . . what was in question was the 'why' for the hush. This is not the tale of a tryst, but of desire and longing, based on a very real relationship that existed at another point in time. Important distinctions for those who might impose their morality upon it.


It is a poem about the benefits of deceiving a partner. The reason for the false names and 'mum's the word' is because people have feelings, and the unholy rendezvous of these two debaucherous schemers would, if the truth ever came out, have a very destructive effect - possibly on several lives. It's playing with fire. You really have no idea of the upheavel and damage it could do to their partners or any children? If you are in an established relationship with a person you must never ever stab them in the back by pretending to go on a business trip and instead book into a hotel room for a dirty weekend. You have to learn to treat people better than this.

[lizzytysh]

I see no bed-and-breakfast receipts.

I see the processing of desire corraled into a poem, an expression of true feelings, and the mentioning of the realities that would necessarily surround such a real-life encounter.

I see no B&B reservations made.

I find it a rather healthy way of processing the ignition of old desire and entrenched feelings. Having read this, I'm not about to book a weekend with a married man. The reader's own morality must be strong enough to withstand such a 'moral onslaught'... or they will be helplessly swayed by the winds and breeze, and end up hither and yon upon many immoral, illegal, or fattening landscapes.

You can't help how you feel. What you can help is how you act upon those feelings.

The writer took up pen and paper.

[Now, what was it you were saying about people being able to talk to you about anything ?]


~ Lizzy

[Geoffrey]

lizzytysh wrote:
>I see no bed-and-breakfast receipts . . . I find it a rather healthy way of processing the ignition of old desire and entrenched feelings.


It says clearly that they booked into a hotel for bed and breakfast. After breakfast they kissed, parted - and apparently returned to their partners. The poem advocates deception. When discovering unfaithfulness, many people are able to eventually forgive their partners - although the relationship is usually permanently damaged because it is impossible to forget betrayal. But the hardest thing to forgive is not the fornication, but the emotional treachery. One might say that it is easier to come to terms with a partner's infidelity if the discovered physical act was based on lust rather than love. The mental adultery of a partner can hurt far more than knowledge of the actual act.

>I see the processing of desire corraled into a poem, an expression of true feelings . . .

That is the part that is so difficult to accept. Think of the partner's feelings, as well. The poem is about how much fun a person can have by using lies and deception in a partnership. If you love your partner you do not book into a hotel with another person. As I said, the pair of them should be publicly horse-whipped and then hung from a crane like in Iran.

[lizzytysh]

Your suggestion would be Denial, Denial, Denial, then, yes?

Deny the reality of lingering love... Stuff it into the nooks and crannies of one's system and watch how it grows into a monster there...

Yes ~ I agree it would be painful. Still, those feelings exist. So, what is one to do with them that won't hurt the partner? It's too late to not experience the feelings. They've already occurred. Giving them some sort of expression can be a way of defusing their power. Ignoring them or denying them can be a way of allowing them to grow.

Acknowledging them, respecting them, and giving them their voice in a poem can be a way to tuck them away safely from reality. No hangings necessary.

[Geoffrey]

lizzytysh wrote:
>Your suggestion would be Denial, Denial, Denial, then, yes? Deny the reality of lingering love... Stuff it into the nooks and crannies of one's system and watch how it grows into a monster there...

Instead of 'denial' I would prefer 'restraint'. People cannot always do what they want, for otherwise there would be no need for rules. A person in a relationship will not fall in love with another person unless there is something wrong. Problems in the current relationship have to be worked on in a mature manner, and only after this fails, after agreement is reached that the relationship should be dissolved, can one justifiably embark upon another affair. This is called being responsible and adult. The only time true denial enters the equation is when a spouse or partner is not informed of what's going on.

[lizzytysh]

I agree with your premise as to how effectively work out a relationship. However, none of these actions have occurred. Perhaps, this is all that's needed to dispel the possibility of eventuality in their actions. Restraint is already in place. The scenario expressed is in one's imagination only... that "If only one could... " ~ true enough that it could be playing with fire... still all feelings should be honoured and accepted... and then dealt with.

The only time true denial enters the equation is when a spouse or partner is not informed of what's going on.

Is this to suggest that the one partner inform the other partner that it's possible to still love a prior spouse or partner, even though the relationship itself didn't/couldn't work out, and that one wrote a poem to address these feelings? Or, are you suggesting that the perfect model of human emotion be employed and adhered to... and all emotions thereby be compartmentalized... past tense-no longer relevant-delete. What safety that would bring, with that process already having taken place, even the fleeting thoughts would never occur. Where did you purchase your brain and heart? I'd like to get one of each, ones that would be far more compliant than my own.

Denial can also take place after a spouse or partner has been informed, by another party.

By the time these two are sixty-four, they'll already be flogged and pulverized into oblivion.

Perhaps, you could congratulate the writer for having taken the first step toward resolution of his current relationship. To recognize and acknowledge that one's love continues in another direction is necessary before taking action to resolve issues with the one you're with... or to determine to dissolve that relationship.

However, sometimes, as well... things just aren't so ideally compartmentalized as you seem to suggest. There may remain a romantic love, an ideal, with the previous partner... yet, the day-to-day reality may not be feasible because of one or both of their personalities. The current partners may be much more realistic in that regard. Still, what does one do with the lingering reality of that love that once both invested in... seeing one another again can reignite that. Then, going away, one is left to deal with that onslaught of new/old feelings, before settling back into the current relationship. Is it really a sign that the current one is bad... or is it a sign that there was a vibrancy in the original that time has not faded? Yet, it could still be that it remains unworkable to attempt life again as a couple. So, what does one do? Write a poem of desire and a fond remembering of their love.

~ Lizzy

[margaret]

Andrew must be gratified and possibly quite amused to see that his poem has generated so much comment!

[lizzytysh]

That occurred to me, too, Margaret ~ you know what they say about art and controversy .

[Andrew McGeever]

It would appear that my poem has caused a mini-outbreak of moral indignation.
The only comments I can make at this stage are
1. Nothing happens in the poem, apart from
2. the fact that I took an idea and made a poem out of it.

It's just a piece of writing; nothing worth getting your knickers in a twist (or is it? )

Andrew.

[lizzytysh]

Will all the knickers please line up on the right... okay, now, "Let's do the Twist... like we did last summer!!!"

"C'mon folks... it's good for your waistline... excellent cardio... keep going... don't give up... c'mon now... Twist! Twist! Get those knickers moving!"

[lizzytysh]

Your trial will commence after jury selection is completed, Andrew. You will be charged with having had the illicit thought. We have all the evidence needed right here before us for conviction and hanging at dawn. Gotta be careful what you post [obviously ].

Will your last meal be chocolate eclairs and grapes? Any other Sinfelicious offerings?

[Diane]

Will all the knickers please line up on the right... okay, now, "Let's do the Twist... like we did last summer!!!"

"C'mon folks... it's good for your waistline... excellent cardio... keep going... don't give up... c'mon now... Twist! Twist! Get those knickers moving!"

Lizzy, you got me laughing aloud here .