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Thank you very much, Lightning . The person I originally contacted never responded, and your coming through is not in the least surprizing, and I appreciate it. It seems I wasn't tooooo far off base ~ at least had the essence, if not the correct words. Yours certainly reads better than mine, and more flowing ~ surprize surprize ~ .

Yeah, sorta cliched, it is. Still, is it the chicken or the egg? Has this type of concept, with rallying wording, come to be cliched because it's what's more typically used in anthem-type compositions? Is what we're seeing here simply anthem vernacular? At least it's moving in a positive direction. Since children sing these songs from childhood on, and the ideas become part of who they are, better they be inclusive and embracing ideas [having the intent of moving toward a better world], even if cliched.

The initial phrase of what you wrote is definitely not cliched . Did they use it?

Thanks, again, Lightning .

Love,
Elizabeth

I did not read Lightning's translation, so : no comment.

For the rest. Well. Usually grown up adults find child's stuff very crappy.

Unless they see it the way Lz is seeing it : things meant for children.

For example - if it is needed, I guess not, but ey! - I was so found of that child show when I was 10 years old. Now... pppffff.

I guess this part of the anthem is kind of the same thing.

S'cuse me Ma'am You know, I'm not sure now if the goal of all this is clear, around here.

Here are the official lyrics of La Marseillaise. If you want my opinion, it is as full of clichés as the other, only the clichés are not the same, they are at the other end, it is a war song.

http://www.mga.asso.fr/navigation.htm

Graeme Allwright thinks that it is a pity, a shame to see on television that French children are singing a war song - they have to learn the national anthem at school - and the goal is to avoid having children learning and singing a war song (full of not-politically-correct-ideas-of-another-century) just because it was chosen at some point, centuries ago, as the national anthem. In fact, for the time, it was a humanist song (well this is what I was told ) but for 2005-6 and future it does not fit.

So... this is it. I let people make their own opinion about that.

As for me, it seems to me that those who believe in marching towards the light should send light and good vibs of peace to "la France entière", children and adults, they seem to need it badly - and the whole Earth, yes. Of course. Sigh.

Hi Lightning ~

I look at the "cliches" here and wonder if they've become that because seeking them, and urging others to do that, seems so impossible and 'cliched,' when they're truly worthy aspirations that have been so violated over the years, that it seems 'sappy' to still express a deep desire for them.

Love,
Lizzy

If it did express a deep desire it wouldn't sound clichéd. It would be expressed it some fresh and moving way. The trouble with it is that its a bunch of goody-goody concepts all hashed together with the usual metaphors for them. But not everybody can go to the source . The original Marseilleise, though violent and bloody, is at least stirring. Serge Gainsbourg put it to reggae music and shocked the nation. He managed to depart from cliché.

Are those particular terms in French considered "cliched"? I know there were many choices to choose from in my French-English dictionary, and having no valid, starting point, I just went with what seemed might work ~ more or less .

When it comes to children's songs, as these verses are apparently intended, I don't feel it's as imperative to be 'fresh' and innovative [to what we adults are used to hearing ~ remembering that children are hearing these ideas and concepts, perhaps, for the 'first' time], as it is to be clear, positive, and memorable.

If contrasting the violent and bloody, but at least stirring ~ with the positive and inspirational, but cliched; I'd much rather teach my children the latter. There's plenty of time left in their lives for higher, intellectual development and creativity. I'd prefer to have their foundation be one of love and embrace, referring to others as friends in solidarity. Childhood is a time for innocence and good dreams. Disillusionment, cynicism, and calls to war and hatred, with the blood of their enemies covering the fields [and, in the U.S., "the bombs bursting in air"] will come soon enough. I wish we could change our national anthem, as it seems to entrench a mindset that war is normal, acceptable, and even, somehow, beautiful. The melody music surrounding that phrase is very positive, with major[?] chords. No feelings of apology, regret, or sadness come with it. In fact, when I recently sang along with our national anthem at an event, I was moved to tears when that line came ~ "the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the night, that our flag was still there" ~ but I cried for our country, our dying youth, and the people dying in other lands, and I wasn't able to finish those lines. I'd far rather be singing a different mentality, absent the tears.

Well ~ I suspect there will be no changes in ours. I'm glad to see that Graeme is doing what he can to make changes in the national anthem of France.

Love,
Elizabeth

Please ladies do like if I am not there. This is very cute for little girls but for women it looks baaaad.

You see, FYS, this is what I was explaining to you, when one does not want to live with the consequences of having no respect for others, and playing games of these sorts, well, this person is not the victim of anybody but one self.

I, half of time, like Laurie and many others, feel not respected by Lz around here. For example, it seems that she is implying the French person she had concated seems nice, but must not be, because she did not comply to all her need on the spot. So.

So you see, there is no plot of kicking her out the board. This is not a matter of wanting her off the board. Or whatever. Maybe you are naive to believe this. What she is doing is a never ending show, man, - nothing else. A crave for being the center of attention all the time, licking the boots of "good" persons and bullying some others, for no other reason that it pleases the bully and the bully can do it. and nothing else. So before taking care of Lz, I'm better taking care of myself. and you too. Although maybe you want to be part of this. In which case, I don't care, I have any judgment about that, some people like to hurt others, it makes them feel powerfull. I'm a NOT a police - I just do constation here - but please, I would not like you to be manipulated, this is all.

OK. Yes. Of course. I am this honest person who prefer to be true than to play games, sometimes it seems rude. I'm not. Believe me.