Dear PC,
I've returned this morning to add this. No matter your response, I'm disengaging. This thread was to share a magnificent, a beautiful, a poignant poem. I don't feel comfortable hijacking it for menial amusements [my own included].
~ Lizzytysh
Tunes and Flowers.
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
Don't be so alarmed..these things happen on message boards, so I'm told.I will keep board members informed about the journey of "Tunes and Flowers" as it happens, and I'm sure you will stay in touch with me.
Yours, Andrew.
Yours, Andrew.
I'm not alarmed, Andrew.....and [trust me on this], I know these things happen on message boards. I've both witnessed and experienced it. However, I remain in control of my own choices in that regard, and in respect of your poem, his statue, and all that they represent.....I choose to make a citizen's arrest of myself. Self-monitoring outweighs in importance the monitoring of others. I was, myself, beginning to feel exploitive of very beautiful words and sculpture....and decided to walk down another street....that one strewn with flowers.
~Lizzytysh
EDIT: Choice
~Lizzytysh
EDIT: Choice
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
Elizabeth, in a previous posting you said "that's the reason I can't write poetry". I don't remember which one it was; you have written so many! But your comment stayed with me.....and, for what it's worth, can I encourage YOU to write poetry?
I feel you should, and you have it in you. As for me, I don't find it an easy task: I have to work hard on my writing, but it's an exploration worth pursuing. But one of my cornerstones is the notion that every poem, once written, must have a home, an audience....you write in the hope that somebody else is going to read it. Otherwise, poetry dissolves into a diary, a mere expression of how you feel at the time. (Talking of which, I have a theory that people who write diaries have a subconscious desire for others to read them!!. Why do they all have pretend locks, unlike bicycles? ).
Yours, Andrew.
I feel you should, and you have it in you. As for me, I don't find it an easy task: I have to work hard on my writing, but it's an exploration worth pursuing. But one of my cornerstones is the notion that every poem, once written, must have a home, an audience....you write in the hope that somebody else is going to read it. Otherwise, poetry dissolves into a diary, a mere expression of how you feel at the time. (Talking of which, I have a theory that people who write diaries have a subconscious desire for others to read them!!. Why do they all have pretend locks, unlike bicycles? ).
Yours, Andrew.
Hi Andrew
Thanks for your encouragement in the way of poetry. I'm trying to formulate what it is that poetry does and is, that prose doesn't and isn't. It seems that poetry is often what's left unsaid, what's obliquely referred to, the implications, etc. My writing tends to be to express as well as I can what "it" is, vs. the references to what "it" is. I don't know. I think a poetry class might be in order. It's true that poetry stands a better chance of immortality than a journal; however, I don't write them either. Can't seem to think of a thing to say when addressing myself.
Get another person on the other end of that presupposed connection, and suddenly no problem. Hmm...how the mind plays.... The journal issue is a whole 'nother thing. There are many reasons and justifications and uses for them, none of which rely on discovery. Junior high school, little-girl diaries have the "fake" locks [though generally a key that locks them.....I know; my mother read mine and I got in trouble ~ perhaps why journaling is now such a seemingly impossible struggle for me now?] -- the journals are generally wide open and come in a wide variety of forms and sizes. Did I say I can't write poetry, or that I don't. Could've been either, just curious, and am thinking now that it was the latter. However, at this point, I'm thinking the former as well, even though intellectually I know better. Perhaps "not everyone's a poet" would be the best explanation. I'll let you know if I locate and take a class.
~Lizzytysh
Thanks for your encouragement in the way of poetry. I'm trying to formulate what it is that poetry does and is, that prose doesn't and isn't. It seems that poetry is often what's left unsaid, what's obliquely referred to, the implications, etc. My writing tends to be to express as well as I can what "it" is, vs. the references to what "it" is. I don't know. I think a poetry class might be in order. It's true that poetry stands a better chance of immortality than a journal; however, I don't write them either. Can't seem to think of a thing to say when addressing myself.
Get another person on the other end of that presupposed connection, and suddenly no problem. Hmm...how the mind plays.... The journal issue is a whole 'nother thing. There are many reasons and justifications and uses for them, none of which rely on discovery. Junior high school, little-girl diaries have the "fake" locks [though generally a key that locks them.....I know; my mother read mine and I got in trouble ~ perhaps why journaling is now such a seemingly impossible struggle for me now?] -- the journals are generally wide open and come in a wide variety of forms and sizes. Did I say I can't write poetry, or that I don't. Could've been either, just curious, and am thinking now that it was the latter. However, at this point, I'm thinking the former as well, even though intellectually I know better. Perhaps "not everyone's a poet" would be the best explanation. I'll let you know if I locate and take a class.~Lizzytysh
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CYBER JOURNAL
Cyberspace Journal
Police Announce Arrest
In an astonishing development Saturday the Police Department announced the arrest of the ringleader of a group of hijackers -- Lizzytysh, of Florida, U.S.A.
She was apprehended during routine questioning of another citizen. Officer PC was issuing a warning citation to Andrew McGeever of Scotland for awkwardness when Ms. Lizzytysh approached and began to accuse the officer of being part of a "kangaroo court".
Officer PC stated, "I immediately gave Ms. Lizzytysh a ticket. She became quite vocal in her opposition. She kept shouting about police brutality and dictionaries and 'see you in court'. I became alarmed and called for backup.
It was during the fingerprinting of Ms. Lizzytysh that it was discovered she was wanted for hijacking. She is believed to be a part of a global network of hijackers with headquarters in the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Further arrests may be forthcoming.
Ms. Lizzytysh was granted bail in the amount of 1,000,000 pounds. When asked by this reporter to explain her actions; she replied, "No comment."
The case is expected to go to court next month
Police Announce Arrest
In an astonishing development Saturday the Police Department announced the arrest of the ringleader of a group of hijackers -- Lizzytysh, of Florida, U.S.A.
She was apprehended during routine questioning of another citizen. Officer PC was issuing a warning citation to Andrew McGeever of Scotland for awkwardness when Ms. Lizzytysh approached and began to accuse the officer of being part of a "kangaroo court".
Officer PC stated, "I immediately gave Ms. Lizzytysh a ticket. She became quite vocal in her opposition. She kept shouting about police brutality and dictionaries and 'see you in court'. I became alarmed and called for backup.
It was during the fingerprinting of Ms. Lizzytysh that it was discovered she was wanted for hijacking. She is believed to be a part of a global network of hijackers with headquarters in the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Further arrests may be forthcoming.
Ms. Lizzytysh was granted bail in the amount of 1,000,000 pounds. When asked by this reporter to explain her actions; she replied, "No comment."
The case is expected to go to court next month
Hi Andrew,
I was listening to NPR this morning and haikus [which I've always loved ~ reading them just creates a calm, peaceful feeling for me, their topics generally in that vein, as well]. Their definition of "three lines, with a 5-7-5 syllablic pattern" is something I can relate to and apply. Perhaps, for me, that's a good place to start. Yet, with Haiku, I still have the sense that that's only part of its magic.....that analyzable aspect.
~Lizzytysh
I was listening to NPR this morning and haikus [which I've always loved ~ reading them just creates a calm, peaceful feeling for me, their topics generally in that vein, as well]. Their definition of "three lines, with a 5-7-5 syllablic pattern" is something I can relate to and apply. Perhaps, for me, that's a good place to start. Yet, with Haiku, I still have the sense that that's only part of its magic.....that analyzable aspect.
~Lizzytysh
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Tunes and Flowers.
I have just been informed (officially) that I'm a V.I.P. at the ceremony. This involves participation in a Christian service in a Kirk, and meeting people with more titles than I have letters in my name. I have been invited to read "Tunes and Flowers" at the unveilling. My Dad is not a "V.I.P.", but I'm working on that one. If not for men like him, there would be no Andrew, no Semitic people.
A lovely tribute to your Dad ~ and I hope you're successful in getting him in under the same status. It seems like that reasoning alone [what you just said] would be sufficient for/and given the occasion. Good luck.
This poem - Tunes & Flowers - is very conventional.....it may be technically correct but I didnt find any new ideas at all. And it hardly does justice to what was so unique about Anne Frank...it could be a dedication to any Jewish or Gypsy victim of the holocaust (and that is not to minimize them). Still, enjoy the bronze.....congratulations !!
What I like about it, Kush, is that it does hold up as being symbolic for any/all Jews and Gypsies who died and survived the holocaust. And it captured the essence of the intent of the statue. Anne Frank's ordeal and personal victory are known simply because of her diary. In many ways, she has become symbolic for the survival of the spirit.
Unknown are all the personally heroic acts and deeply-considered, philosophical and spiritual thoughts of the others who suffered and died because there existed no diary as testimony. Those who survived may either be unable to recapture what all their thoughts were during that time, to relate to others ex post facto, or they may have been unwilling to revisit that time and state of mind.
What comes to mind immediately is the film, "Life Is Beautiful" and the personal heroism depicted in it. Even though it was a fictional scenario, we will never know what may have occurred in this or similar fashion. The love of a parent for child knows no bounds.
The emotional impact of the statue I feel comes through in the poem. It didn't require that new ideas be presented.....those ideas were already put forth by virtue of the statue itself.
That's how I feel about the poem. I know that it will be a blissed-out day for Andrew. I wish him the best.
~Lizzytysh
Unknown are all the personally heroic acts and deeply-considered, philosophical and spiritual thoughts of the others who suffered and died because there existed no diary as testimony. Those who survived may either be unable to recapture what all their thoughts were during that time, to relate to others ex post facto, or they may have been unwilling to revisit that time and state of mind.
What comes to mind immediately is the film, "Life Is Beautiful" and the personal heroism depicted in it. Even though it was a fictional scenario, we will never know what may have occurred in this or similar fashion. The love of a parent for child knows no bounds.
The emotional impact of the statue I feel comes through in the poem. It didn't require that new ideas be presented.....those ideas were already put forth by virtue of the statue itself.
That's how I feel about the poem. I know that it will be a blissed-out day for Andrew. I wish him the best.
~Lizzytysh
I am completely aware of what you are saying in your first two paragraphs, Lizzytysh. There is a great quote by author Primo Levi about that, I forget it right now but in essence it says perhaps it is best AF alone symbolises the holocaust for Jews & Gypsies becoz' if we knew all other personal stories we would not be able to handle it.
I think what is unique about A. Frank is her detail oriented writing skills, the humor and candidness (is that a word ??) in it and her clarity of thought reflected in her writing (I came across a couple of great metaphors in her writing that if I didnt know better I'd have thought it was LC's). I do not see any reference to that in this poem. It may be good, it just doesnt stand out as anything special. There is no character, it doesnt say anything. Just another dedication. IMHO. But of course it is possible I am missing something.
I think what is unique about A. Frank is her detail oriented writing skills, the humor and candidness (is that a word ??) in it and her clarity of thought reflected in her writing (I came across a couple of great metaphors in her writing that if I didnt know better I'd have thought it was LC's). I do not see any reference to that in this poem. It may be good, it just doesnt stand out as anything special. There is no character, it doesnt say anything. Just another dedication. IMHO. But of course it is possible I am missing something.
Hi Kush,
I "see" [never having and never likely will] the statue as being more about reconciliation and peace. Regardless of the exemplary nature of Anne's writing skills and insights [except for the fact that someone of her nature ~ with her insights ~ would be willing to offer the flowers], the essence of the statue has nothing to do with someone's particular skills, but rather their willingness to go on in the spirit of love and life.
If it were a statue at a university, I could see where perhaps she might have a diary in one hand, flowers in the other ~ and the poem to reflect the same. However, it seemed to me that her writing was one of her survival skills during that horrific time. Once survived, if given the opportunity, the statue seems to suggest another approach, and the advisability of considering connecting with one another on a more human level [wherein even the illiterate can participate], and I think of a child who picks and brings flowers to another. It's the simplicity of the act ~ and its innocence resonates, resoundingly, in contrast to the guilt of the perpetrators.
Primo Levi's quote is really true. I wish you had the actual wording. But with the miracles of the Internet, I guess I could somehow research and come up with it, eh? I'd also be interested in seeing those metaphors. I can easily imagine what you're saying about AF/LC.
I didn't get the sense that either the statue or the poem were meant to depict Anne Frank's writing, but rather her spirit ~ we just happen to know about her spirit due to her writing.
I have to conclude that the proof is in the pudding in terms of the poem, if the sculptor felt that the poem captured what the sculptor had intended, in a medium where no words are possible.
All good things,
Lizzytysh
I "see" [never having and never likely will] the statue as being more about reconciliation and peace. Regardless of the exemplary nature of Anne's writing skills and insights [except for the fact that someone of her nature ~ with her insights ~ would be willing to offer the flowers], the essence of the statue has nothing to do with someone's particular skills, but rather their willingness to go on in the spirit of love and life.
If it were a statue at a university, I could see where perhaps she might have a diary in one hand, flowers in the other ~ and the poem to reflect the same. However, it seemed to me that her writing was one of her survival skills during that horrific time. Once survived, if given the opportunity, the statue seems to suggest another approach, and the advisability of considering connecting with one another on a more human level [wherein even the illiterate can participate], and I think of a child who picks and brings flowers to another. It's the simplicity of the act ~ and its innocence resonates, resoundingly, in contrast to the guilt of the perpetrators.
Primo Levi's quote is really true. I wish you had the actual wording. But with the miracles of the Internet, I guess I could somehow research and come up with it, eh? I'd also be interested in seeing those metaphors. I can easily imagine what you're saying about AF/LC.
I didn't get the sense that either the statue or the poem were meant to depict Anne Frank's writing, but rather her spirit ~ we just happen to know about her spirit due to her writing.
I have to conclude that the proof is in the pudding in terms of the poem, if the sculptor felt that the poem captured what the sculptor had intended, in a medium where no words are possible.
All good things,
Lizzytysh
What does it say about her spirit ? I guess we'll agree to disagree. Maybe I'm just being picky....
Primo Levi: "One single Anne Frank moves us more than the countless others who suffered just as she did, but whose faces have remained in the shadows. Perhaps it is better that way: If we were capable of taking in the suffering of all those people, we would not be able to live."
One example of her writing that comes to mind is (and I can't reproduce it exactly right now) - " All these thoughts crisscrossing through my mind like fancy threads in a party dress."
There are other examples.
Primo Levi: "One single Anne Frank moves us more than the countless others who suffered just as she did, but whose faces have remained in the shadows. Perhaps it is better that way: If we were capable of taking in the suffering of all those people, we would not be able to live."
One example of her writing that comes to mind is (and I can't reproduce it exactly right now) - " All these thoughts crisscrossing through my mind like fancy threads in a party dress."
There are other examples.