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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:07 pm
by Steven
Diane,
"It must be something to hear Rumi set to music, Lizzy and Steven
."
This was the first time that I heard it. The way these people did it,
sounded part Leonard Cohen, part beatnik, and very relevant in
light of the three of them now being homeless.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:13 pm
by Steven
Lizzy,
Yes, this is the poem.
Thank you for posting it; I am grateful.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:35 am
by lizzytysh
You're welcome, Steven. It's a great poem to live by, isn't it? Why must it be so hard
?
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:38 am
by Steven
Lizzy,
It is a great poem to live by; I don't know why it is often so
hard. Personally, I find it helpful to try to avoid too much
rumi-nating (sorry for the pun) over this difficulty. I suppose, though,
it has something to do with our species being heavily intelligent
and ego-driven concurrent with its disinclination to acquire wisdom
(or to even act wisely).
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:33 pm
by lizzytysh
Steven ~
Good answer
. Seriously
.
~ Lizzy
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:10 am
by Steven
Lizzy,
It was a good (though very broad) question. Glad you asked
it. It's nice to know that others here value this topic.
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:40 am
by tomsakic
Great topic here (didn't visit this section for months). Lizzy, thanks for Rummi's "The Guests"
I do find many similarities in mood and expressions between Leonard's
Recent Songs album and Rumi, particularly in somehow oriental and pretty allegorical images and metaphors, and he did thank to Rumi in
Recent Songs and
Field Commander Cohen CDs, particularly for The Guests and The Window. But I didn' realise there's exact Rumi's poem about the guests from which Leonard sourced his inspiration; I searched more for The Window influences. I have Croatian translation, and the US edition, in red colour with some ornaments, "The Essential Rumi" (don't recall editor's name, but it could be Coleman Barks - that name does ring the bell). I didn't quite get time to read it in its entirety, so I didn't come yet to this poem.
It's funny notion that Rumi set to music sounds like Cohen+beatniks. It's so appropriate
It's a good good writing. To the heart.
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:45 am
by tomsakic
It is Coleman Barks' edition. Now I read interesting attack on him at Amazon, what reminded me on my own doubts about his translations - namely, Croatian translation (made directly from the Rumi's original language and critical edition) seem little different from Barks', but I always thought it's because it's in English, and Rumi does sound little closer to Cohen or Layton or any other English poet than in Croatian.
Reviewer: A reader from USA
In reference to the reader thinking C. Barks is either a 1) "masterful translator" or 2)"an exceptional original poet". The answer: neither one. 1) He didn't translate anything, he merely simplified/abbreviated the translations of A.J. Arberry (in the world of translations and artistic translations, this "deriving from someone elses' translations" is the easiest path one can take). 2) He's certainly not a "poet". To be a "poet", one must write "poetic pieces" on their own.
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:25 pm
by lizzytysh
Well, look who's here
! You're welcome, of course, Tom
.
My interest in Coleman has been Rumi-related [not even noticing, at the time, the thanks to Rumi that you mention], so I can't really speak to the quality of his own poetry; however, he does write on his own. I became aware of that when I saw him.
Here's a blurb on him from Google ~ and a clever, though not at the Rumi level, one:
Coleman Barks
THE CORTLAND REVIEW
INTERVIEW
Alfredo de Palchi
POETRY
Kelly Bancroft
Coleman Barks
Steven Cordova
Barbara Daniels
Donna J. G. Lee
Ernie Hilbert
Glenn Ingersoll
Stephen Knauth
Judy Loest
Jean Monahan
Joanna Smith Rakoff
Diane Reynolds
Andrew Shields
Karen White
Daniel Wood
FICTION
Rigoberto González
Harry Marten
Coleman Barks, born and raised in Chattanooga, Tennessee, went to school at the University of North Carolina and the University of California, Berkeley. He taught poetry and creative writing at the University of Georgia for thirty years. After meeting Robert Bly in 1976, he began translating the 13th Century mystic, Rumi. His first publication of the Rumi work, Open Secret: Versions of Rumi, was awarded the Pushcart Writer's Choice Award by William Stafford. His Rumi translations were collected in a definitive best-selling anthology, The Essential Rumi, and re-issued in 1997. His work with Rumi was the subject of a segment in Bill Moyers' Language of Life series on PBS, and a special, Fooling with Words, aired on PBS in 1999. A selection of the Rumi translations appears in the prestigious 7th edition of the Norton Anthology of World Masterpieces. The father of two grown children and grandfather of three, he is now retired in Athens, Georgia.
Spring Morning
It's a spring morning in the 1940's when Ozella
and my mother misunderstand each
other. The exterminator man in his green
Orkin uniform coming up the walk, mother calls
from the porch back to the kitchen.
Do we have any bugs?
No'm, we used all those we had yesterday. She'd
thought mother'd said bulbs, light
bulbs, mother so elongated
her buuuuuhhhhs, and barely put final consonants on
at all. Now here's the bug man with
his metal spray gun lying
down on the brick walk to laugh. We are so ready
to laugh in the 1940's, we get down
on our sides to enjoy it.
~ Lizzy
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:30 pm
by Tri-me
Thank you for giving credence to my belief that there is a connection between Leonard and Rumi. I have heard Ten New Songs last Christmas at a freind's place, but was unable to look at it closely. This is also before the kittens, BK, it seems appropriate that the kittens are Leonardcohen and Rumi. When the inspiration to name the first kitten came I said the name would be Leonardcohen or Rumi, Rumi was a gift. Just had to be I guess.
Coleman Barks is the forerunner of translation. He sis an interview on CBC's Tapestry. It is an interesting story ho rumi came to him. Unfortunately, I cannot find the CD of the show that I have, If it turns up i will try to transcribe it. The interview is not available in the CBC archives.
I just checked again and it is not available.
There is an archive of the men who wrote the book Killing The Buddah, way off topic but I remember walking across the Saint john River listening to it it was a good show
http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/Tapestry/a ... 20504.html
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:57 am
by Diane
Hi folks. I have been reading Rumi tonight. I felt compelled to copy another poem here, and settled on this love poem, which is just delightful:
Like This
If anyone asks you
how the perfect satisfaction
of all our sexual wanting
will look, lift your face
and say,
Like this.
When someone mentions the gracefulness
of the nightsky, climb up on the roof
and dance and say,
Like this.
If anyone wants to know what "spirit" is,
or what "God’s fragrance" means,
lean your head toward him or her.
Keep your face there close.
Like this.
When someone quotes the old poetic image
about clouds gradually uncovering the moon,
slowly loosen knot by knot the strings
of your robe.
Like this.
If anyone wonders how Jesus raised the dead,
don’t try to explain the miracle.
Kiss me on the lips.
Like this. Like this.
When someone asks what it means
to "die for love," point
here.
If someone asks how tall I am, frown
and measure with your fingers the space
between the creases on your forehead.
This tall.
The soul sometimes leaves the body, the returns.
When someone doesn’t believe that,
walk back into my house.
Like this.
When lovers moan,
they’re telling our story.
Like this.
I am a sky where spirits live.
Stare into this deepening blue,
while the breeze says a secret.
Like this.
When someone asks what there is to do,
light the candle in his hand.
Like this.
How did Joseph’s scent come to Jacob?
Huuuuu.
How did Jacob’s sight return?
Huuuu.
A little wind cleans the eyes.
Like this.
When Shams comes back from Tabriz,
he’ll put just his head around the edge
of the door to surprise us
Like this.
------------------------------------------------------
Diane
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:45 pm
by tomsakic
Hmm, I was sure that Rumi-Cohen connection is widely known, as is Lorca-Cohen...
Recent Songs, 1979
I owe my thanks to Joshu Sasaki, upon whose exposition of an early Chinese text I based Ballad of the Absent Mare; to the late Robert Hernshorn, who, many years ago, put into my hands the books of the old Persian poets Attar and Rumi, whose imagery influenced several songs, especially The Guests and The Window (...)
Field Commander Cohen: Tour Of 1979, 2001
Also thanks to Eric Anest, Family Arjatsalo (leonardcohenfiles.com and precious links), Mark Binder, Robert Bower, Dave Carlock, Family Cohen, Bea de Koning, Yvonne Hakze, John Lissauer, Family Lynch, Morgan Martin, Kyozan Joshu Roshi, Jelaluddin Rumi, Jennifer Warnes and Tracey Wasserman.
It's been discussed in various LC's biographies also (Nadel, Devlin), and Omnibus Press' guide thru his songs (Maurice Ratcliff's).
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:12 pm
by lizzytysh
What a gentle flow of feeling you are carried on through this poem by Rumi, Diane. Thanks for posting such a beautiful tribute to love in all its forms. Sitting down to read Rumi always carries me away, the same as this poem did. Thanks.
Tom ~ You're clearly correct in that. I just never happened to read the first during a time that I was truly Rumi-conscious. With the second, I guess even though it is Rumi, I didn't connect the whole of the name with Rumi, and I'm not sure if I saw Coleman Barks and bought Rumi's books before or after Field Commander Cohen. Pretty close, either way, I think.
I haven't read the biographies.
Thanks for posting those here, though, so more can see their connection.
~ Lizzy
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:41 pm
by Diane
I was sure that Rumi-Cohen connection is widely known
Well, Tom, not by me (there are so many things that I do not know that I do not know
). Thanks for confirming it. It is wonderful to know Leonard
was influenced by Rumi.
Lizzy, yes, I also feel I could open any page and get carried away.
Here's another (this one reminds me of mountain biking in 'bad' weather, when nature has so much beauty, less seen):
When it's cold and raining,
you are more beautiful.
And the snow brings me
even closer to your lips.
The inner secret, that which was never born,
you are that freshness, and I am with you now.
I can't explain the goings,
or the comings. You enter suddenly,
and I am nowhere again.
Inside the majesty.
----------------------------------------------------------
Diane
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:54 pm
by lizzytysh
Ohhhhhhhhhhh,
Diane ~ You have selected one of my
favourites ~ if favourites are possible
. Rumi's kind of like Leonard in that way. This melted my heart when I heard it ~ and Coleman does a reading of it on one of the tapes I'll be sending you. Oh, my
.
~ Lizzy