leonardcohenforum.com

I have removed my prior post. Sorry I used big scary print in the old post, but I really think this song should be left alone and NOT have other lyrics put to it. This song really has nothing to do with Christianity. Sorry, but it doesn't. I didn't mean to "flame" the artist on the forum. Sorry.

---Rain

Wow, that was bad. Real bad. But if she bothered to write all those so-called "lyrics" then why not put them to original music?

What's next you ask? Apparently she's rewriting Serge Gainsbourg's "Je T'aime" to make it more suitable for next Sunday's Mass (retitled "Jesus, Je T'aime"), and then, for Christmas services maybe she will rewrite the lyrics for the The Beatles' White Album.

My advice to her - leave this planet's classic songs alone.

bridger15 wrote:

Violet wrote:.. well, they strike a "secret chord," if I may..

@Violet. A secret chord for you.
http://blog.the-scientist.com/2010/11/05/secret-chord/

---Arlene

.. holy mokes, I love this idea, although I agree with the poster who thought that maybe there should be sound accompanying this little video.


thanks, A.,
v. x

later edit: just removed what feels to be extraneous at this point.

Actually, it's not a bad thing that Leonard's name may be credited for all-time in the church hymnal, though some may think it's just another Kelley ripping him off!

'Hallelujah' could easily be put into a hymnal, as could "If it Be Your Will".......if THAT song isn't a hymn, I don't know what is........

For 'Hallelujah',you might have to omit the "...she tied you to a kitchen chair...." verse out, for most easily-shocked churches..... .

Rain wrote:'Hallelujah' could easily be put into a hymnal, as could "If it Be Your Will".......if THAT song isn't a hymn, I don't know what is........

For 'Hallelujah',you might have to omit the "...she tied you to a kitchen chair...." verse out, for most easily-shocked churches..... .

.. I don't know.. to me, if this song is in some sense a supplication to God, it really has more to do with one's kitchen, than the church.. the idea that we're even having this conversation as if to question whether its "worthiness" should be "allowed" in church almost, tells us more about what's wrong with the church, than with the song.. (why do I feel as though I'm going around in circles?.. where's that rope.. need to tie a few things down in here.. Leonard.. keep still a sec.. be right there)..

much later note: I really shouldn't be looking back at this thread.. anyway, this is the only line I like from the original post of mine:

.. I am now converting to Judaism, with a Sufi twist, and a splash of lavender.

[I would add that the other nonsense I had here was not picked up on in later conversation on this thread, so I think I'm okay in deleting it]

...another thought - it's nothing new for the church to borrow tunes from popular music. I seem to remember singing the Everley Brothers "Devoted to You" at Sunday School, fifty years ago!

There would be nothing wrong with the church borrowing that tune. But why not leave it as it is? Kitchen chair and all? If prayer shouldn't be about life as well, why pray?
Alternatively, she should simply have taken the non-worldly stanzas and left out the rest. No need to clumsily turn it into a Christian song - and a banal one.
So either bow to the original or simply take If it be your will as was suggested before - I have made people read it in a church as a prayer and no one was offended, on the contrary. Of course, no kitchen chair there. But I am working on getting people used to more worldly lyrics...

Puddingdale wrote:There would be nothing wrong with the church borrowing that tune. But why not leave it as it is? Kitchen chair and all?

Typical of the puritanical attitude to sexuality in the Roman Catholic church - any reference even remotely connected with sex is taboo. (Assuming it is that church from the reference to "priest" ) However, I think that the "holy dove moving" verse would bother them more than the kitchen chair!

Violet wrote:
.. I don't know.. to me, if this song is in some sense a supplication to God, it really has more to do with one's kitchen, than the church.. the idea that we're even having this conversation as if to question whether its "worthiness" should be "allowed" in church almost, tells us more about what's wrong with the church, than with the song.. (why do I feel as though I'm going around in circles?.. where's that rope.. need to tie a few things down in here.. Leonard.. keep still a sec.. be right there)..

[/quote]

Good points. Actually, 'Hallelujah' has so many layers to it, spiritual, sexual, yeah, most churches would not consider it a hymn. I call Mr. Cohen a modern-day 'secular psalmist', because a lot of his lyrics, especially those of a sensual nature remind me, poetically speaking, of The Song of Solomon (which I also doubt most churches would make into a hymn to be sung in a service!) As I said, I wouldn't have a problem singing it as a hymn, but most mainstream churches would, it's too suggestive I guess

TipperaryAnn wrote: Puddingdale wrote:There would be nothing wrong with the church borrowing that tune. But why not leave it as it is? Kitchen chair and all?



Typical of the puritanical attitude to sexuality in the Roman Catholic church - any reference even remotely connected with sex is taboo. (Assuming it is that church from the reference to "priest" ) However, I think that the "holy dove moving" verse would bother them more than the kitchen chair!

I know, I am a Roman Catholic and still I stand by my word. I would leave the song as it is or not use it at all. Why not confront a congregation with other ways of thinking and see what happens. Even if it makes them angry, at least it will make them think about their religious feelings. If ever I manage to convince my parish priest to preach on Hallelujah, I will let you know So far, I have got no further than having If it be your will read at a christmas concert. Too unprovocative and really a hymn, I know. But at least I did not mess with poetry or make clumsy rhymes just to make a "contribution."

Violet wrote:
.. well, they strike a "secret chord," if I may..

hi

.. uh.. didn't mean to strike you.. of course, it was supposed to be a secret, I thought.. (so much for secrets around here)..

.. (Leonard, shush.. it's just that secretchord acting up again.. oh, you want those tighter?).. (my god)..

Hi Vi
Hi Arlene
Hi Everyone else here,

Yah yah, the church is about community and all that, but IMO, the experience that Leonard sings about in Hallelujah is an experience one comes to on one's own. That programming of people, especially when they're very young; that censorship or dilution of anything that doesn't 'fit' the chosen didactic, has always been my grouse with the church...

Arlene, I love the secret chord sculpture, and really enjoyed the time-lapse video of its installation!

(V, as you can see, I'm still in a threesome with elipses and italics...)