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kwills wrote: Undercover eh? sure I could do that Sorry I missed the Marquis de Sade question earlier I had been having a whip round oops a slip of the lash ..I mean tongue No connection there though.
I will sniff around this Hanging Dick........I mean Henning and Dick to find out exactly who they are especially for you dear Violet,as you are so sweet.
Love kwillis,kwills .quills oh now I'm getting myself confused!

.. well, kwills.. if you think that sweet talk is going to get you anywhere with me.. well.. as usual, you'd be right.. Anyway.. let me know what you come up with on H & D.. I can't imagine they're up to any good, actually.. but hopefully you can enlighten us further on such hunches.. You are right about Dick, though.. he's always hanging around, it seems..

.. in the meantime, keep the whip's n' lashes to an "as needed" basis (if you're not already too far gone for that).. (gosh, and to think I thought you were just a big banana turned leonard-looking gardener with an eye for perverse hot peppers.. (who knew??)..

(sweetly) signed,
v i o l e t (flower).. (still sort of wishing I knew
whether you're a boy, or a girl.. but getting
used to the ambiguity, I guess)..

Psst Violet,I've just come back from doing some reconnaissance on Dick,and you know what? you're not going to believe this,but he's a blow up doll! I knew he hung around here some place,that's why I got confused with the hanging Dick thing,but he really is a hanging Dick!I wonder how he gets around,maybe the wind blows him here there and everywhere,I expect if he wants to get a move on he lets out a little air and whoosh there he goes!
Between you and me Violet he looks like a giant peeping Tom!We must beware,hence I've reverted to my inconspicuous avatar,while I snoop around on your behalf.

By the way how does Bond kwill-IS Bond sound to you? cool eh?

I like your disguise Kwills, very subtle and clever.
Who would ever suspect LaLa and with all the Banana business going on you're practically in camouflage.

added on - G, I think you mean love, love that we have shared or given - in the end what else is there of any importance.

karrenb wrote:There is nothing we carry with us when we depart from this life, only hope for forgiveness. or we're all stuffed.

Hey karrenb I find this a really interesting point. Do you mean forgiveness from God?

A
x

kwills wrote:Psst Violet,I've just come back from doing some reconnaissance on Dick,and you know what? you're not going to believe this,but he's a blow up doll! I knew he hung around here some place,that's why I got confused with the hanging Dick thing,but he really is a hanging Dick!I wonder how he gets around,maybe the wind blows him here there and everywhere,I expect if he wants to get a move on he lets out a little air and whoosh there he goes!
Between you and me Violet he looks like a giant peeping Tom!We must beware,hence I've reverted to my inconspicuous avatar,while I snoop around on your behalf.

By the way how does Bond kwill-IS Bond sound to you? cool eh?

.. (hi K, hi A).. yes, I agree, Cate.. kwills looks very inconspicuous all done up as a big fat yellow banana.. (good thinking, kwills)..

.. so.. Bond kwill-IS Bond is growing on me.. although now we're back to that 'i' again.. you really are a mercurial marauder, kwills.. (that's probably the wrong term, actually, but I like the alliteration)..

.. so Dick is a blow-up peeping Tom doll.. travels by way of exhaustion (as it were).. (Jarkko must be overworking him).. Well, the peeping Tom part does explain why he'd be picked to be an official moderator.. especially back here at the Turning Ugly Losers Poetry by Forum Members section [if you look into the files, well, mine at least, you'll see that that is the official unofficial name for this section].. anyway, the point is, it is where all the pervs hang out (as well you know, kwills)..

.. Well, bloody good work, Bond kwill-IS Bond!.. (I'm brushing up on me Brit slang.. and did the bloody-thingy up in red, to try to incite Dick, and maybe bring him out of hiding.. I mean, it just might cause him to "blow up".. who can say??)..

always on her toes,
v i o l e t "M" flower (Bond's [sweet] boss at ye ol' MI-6)..

Hello karrenb, nothing to forgive

This is the first and only forum that I have ever joined - fussy me see

Firstly, it is probably best for me to say that I am not a Christian (just to avoid any confusion!) - but I do feel very strongly 'What goes around comes around'..and that can actually play out in a variety of different ways it seems.
But I really can't accept (this is based on a mixture of experience and intuition), that one person's loss of life - is another person's form of punishment.
It is a terrible sad thing for someone left in this life to feel like that, and I think it is doubly so because I don't feel that it makes any sense.
Then this enormous, unwarranted legacy of self punishment and sadness ensues, and I think that is such a tragedy.
I like things that are symbolic, items that inspire me to think. I think that half of the problem is focusing too much on the more shallow objects of expression, and not enough on what you have going on inside of you coupled with all that you personally express, your words and deeds.
If it was 'natural' for us to all walk around naked, then we would have to fall back on what really matters, so why not live life now as if all we have is the body we get around in?

A
x

(Edits were for typos - too long finger nails for the keyboard and a few glasses of Red thrown in there too )

.. oh, hi A.. didn't see your post (as I was writing).. but had responded this way to k..

karrenb wrote:Sorry i'm new to this! I have never joined a forum or anything like this before so forgive me my ignorance.
I used to think that God forgave everything but now i'm not sure. He says he will send you no more than you can bear. But by whose comparison. after all they say he gave his only son. How much more could you bear than that. I have lost too many people that i care about and wonder if i am paying the price for a not so blameless life. How do we know????? I remeber someone saying once when asked why they wore so many religious icons and they replied "I would hate to miss out on getting into heaven on a technicality" So i suppose all we can do is hope.

.. hi karrenb.. I'm touched by your dilemma.. and is it God that forgives us, or is it for us to in some manner forgive ourselves?.. these are the difficult questions, I guess.. and I don't believe there are simple answers.. I just saw a Lorca play last night, Blood Wedding, which I'll try to paraphrase [no doubt leaving out a lot].. Now, the Bride of the play loves a man whom she cannot have, as he was too poor for her to marry, and so he married and had a family with someone else.. and so, she is now to become the "proper" wife of a decent man, who owns land, who can provide for her as her own father wishes, etc.. By all outward appearances, this is a good match.. but what of that deeper part within ourselves?.. Her lover came to her just after her wedding, and before her marriage was consummated, and they rode off, on horseback.. into the night.. After torturous soul searching [and other forms of mayhem] she arrives back "home" where she feels sure her new mother-in-law will kill her.. [it seems her lover and new husband had knifed each other to death].. But when the Bride tells the mother-in-law her plight.. tells her of her feeling to be but this "drop" of water beside this enormous wave; this tidal deluge of forces well beyond her.. when she tells her how, no matter how hard she would have tried to be a good wife to her new husband.. how this relentless wave of sadness and longing would forever be pressing upon her.. drawing her to her lover, and keeping her from truly loving her husband, as well she knows she ought.. But when she tells so vividly of these feelings.. the mother-in-law.. who has been so filled with hate and anger up until this point, first given the past slaying of her husband and older son.. and now for the futility of a life without children or grandchildren.. and STILL.. it is in this moment that she looks upon this woman, and says in a kind of wonderment.. "You are not to blame".. And such it is to discover something.. something about the world.. something about ourselves.. We are often "of" this world.. this world, and more confoundingly, its undercurrents.. and how difficult it is for us at times to manage to stand apart from what can seem a deluge from within.. even if we know that to stand apart is what we "ought".. And yet we are.. alas.. human.. and not so easily managed by propriety, or convention.. And if there is a "God".. and if that God is just.. then how much love and understanding must there be for the plight of this woman.. for the plight of each and every one of us..

v i o l e t

Hi V

What a wonderful poignant story.

And such it is to discover something.. something about the world.. something about ourselves.. We are often "of" this world.. this world, and more confoundingly, its undercurrents.. and how difficult it is for us at times to manage to stand apart from what can seem a deluge from within.. even if we know that to stand apart is what we "ought".. And yet we are.. alas.. human.. and not so easily managed by propriety, or convention..

However I do get very irked about some points that extend from this, well two points. I think it is wrong that peoples 'deluges from within' (well put) are not better understood at times. Others can be too quick to decide the worst and become the condemners.
I do not believe that it is always a fair judgement by the rest of the world to expect an individual to be able to contain themselves - not when it is something that is so fundamental to that individual, not when it is something that is so genuine too. Because the reality is - we are individuals, we are human, and that of course- entails quite a lot.
While such negative judgement is unbelievable difficult to avoid - (you have to be a particularly strong person to forgive and actually see the whole bigger picture in such cases), it is largely bourne out of self-interest, and not necessarily from actually seeing what it all means to the other person. Seeing it all for what it really is in it's entirety.
I am not particularly talking along the same lines as your story V - it can apply to most epic things in life, where someone is unavoidably going to get hurt as a consequence. It could be a perfectly healthy partnership that breaks up because one of the two realises that they have to take that opportunity to see the world, that their guts are telling them that to say no would be the biggest mistake of their life. Because, even if it isn't true, on these ultimate occasions, you have to live as if 'you only get one life'.
But on the flip-side, there are those who would abuse the principles of such valid actions... there are those who would do as they care, but, with no regard for others...acting under, what conveniently becomes a roll-off-the-tongue easy statement - 'I am only human'.

A
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Dearest Karren

What you have said is heart-wrenching. I truly wish you to be able to overcome such sorrows. It is a long road.
But I believe that you are blessed in one very important sense... When you said...

I learned that Love is a commodity that cost too much.

because I think that to have a heart that is honest enough to feel such pain, in truth, shows an opposite understanding - that love does not feel like a commodity, that love isn't such a thing at all. Though pain may be overwhelming - in time, if you let it, this recognition can only make you stronger. I do not know your story, but there are many wicked, soul-less people out there, who never feel remorse, who never recognise anything with their hearts. They are cold and stone. Based on what you have written here, including the poem that you have posted, I certainly do not believe anything like that of you.
One of the hardest trials to try and overcome is that of forgiving yourself. It can be the loneliest place in the universe.
You know the meaning of love, and it takes a lot to say what you have said. Sometimes, a first starting point must be allow yourself to believe in yourself more. Those positive aspects of who you really are, are the most valuable foundation stones.

Best Best Wishes xxx

A
x

The son of a friend is on life support in a hospital here in Vancouver; long story, but he seems to be showing very slight improvement after 4 weeks of zero. My friend is a believer, and is convinced it is because so many people 'were praying for him'. I mentioned this to my daughter, who said to me: 'Prayer is simply love, that's all it is. You don't have to believe in a deity to say a prayer.'

I don't believe in that ol' white guy with the long beard who metes out harsh judgements if you don't do what he says. I don't believe in S. Claus or the Easter Bunny either. But somewhere in the Old or New Testament, someone said 'God is Love' – and that I cherish; Love is divine. Love for each other and also for oneself – is the work of our better self. Forgiveness and compassion is love. Love is easy to preach and hard to practice, but as the man says, it's the only engine of survival, and we gotta practice harder.

Most of us have been programmed to feel guilt, to assume the burden of 'it must be my fault/my wrongdoing that caused this or that consequence'. That is how various religions have gained control of us for thousands of years.

PS Karren and Alsiony, you two have discovered why Violet is known as a Sister of Mercy 'round here...