leonardcohenforum.com

John Etherington wrote:Here's a treat for Buffy fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP9BPhPmHF4

she is looking at the texts on a prompter, is she not? i most certainly believe so.

A.Sukitu wrote:Buffy Sainte-Marie is very wonderful - have you heard/seen her singing: "God is Alive, Magic is Afoot"? Absolutely beautiful. (When I read Beautiful Losers, I saw her as Catherine Tekakwitha. Buffy is touring and singing - do go to see her. Her singing is pure and a soulful shade of blue.

Just came accross this thread today. Thanks Jeff for this song. I had nog heard it before. I've been listening to Buffy St. Marie since the 70's. Her singing is indeed pure and touching. ''God is Alive, Magic is Afoot' is great. She does 'Bird on the Wire' also. Sukitu you did a wonderful job of writing out the words of The Bells. I was listening to the song number of times and it gets better every time I hear it. I heard a few words/phrases just slightly different to you.

The Bells
I’m writing this to say goodbye
To what you never should reply
That of all the words and demons that you leave
I stand entirely below
That is to say your loving me
Would be your only crime.

And isn’t it a pity
You can see your duty clearly
In the midst of some great city
In the midst of all this love

Many men have loved the bells
You fastened to the rein same as in take this longing
And everyone who wanted you
Found what she would always want again.

And I’d have been the dust for you
And I’d have been the grass for you
But you tell me with your beauty
You can see your duty clearly
In the midst of New York City
In the midst of all my love.

The body like a search light
And the prison of my need
Oh, I need to share your loneliness
And I demand your greed.
And everything depends upon
How near you sleep to me.
And isn’t it a pity
You can see your duty clearly
In the midst of New York City
In the midst of all our love.

I will be writing this
When you are so very young again
That the forests that you burned away,
And then sail away, are truly, truly gone.
I will be waiting
Where a star (fishes: touches or kisses?) your hair
And the jewels for your shoulders
Fall through the walls of sand
Fall through the walls of sand

Geoffrey - re: your earlier post, I suspect that American Indians have little concern for intellect and sophistication. However, when the electric grid crashes and a deadly virus destroys the world's computers (2012?), then the qualities of the Indians will give them a distinct advantage . Meanwhile, I would be surprised if Buffy's eyes were directed at anything other than the Moon itself!

All good things, John E

John Etherington wrote:
>I suspect that American Indians have little concern for intellect and sophistication. However, when the electric grid crashes and a deadly virus destroys the world's computers (2012?), then the qualities of the Indians will give them a distinct advantage.

well, i had not given consideration to ethnic background, and believe that it is indelicate to make general statements about an entire race (or tribe) of people. do you really think it is an important issue here, john? i had judged this singer's merit on the quality of her voice alone.

>I would be surprised if Buffy's eyes were directed at anything other than the Moon itself!

she was in a studio.

>All good things

and to you.

TineDoes -
thanks!
I think that Buffy is very beautiful and I love her singing this song; I love her voice. (A personal thing - everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Thus thank goodness for on and off switches).

I'm going to chime in on this thread (no pun intended ) As for Buffy St.Marie, I feel that her voice is, shall we say an "acquired taste"? She has a great deal of tremolo when she sings. I was a big fan of hers years ago and I still like listening to her on occasion, but her voice is not one I could listen to for hours on end the way I can with Leonard. She certainly recorded many fine songs. I'm not familiar with everything she wrote, but those songs I have heard I find very well done. Basically, I like her work but only in small doses. I can't say I've ever heard her do anything I haven't liked...just that I get "tired" of her voice quickly.

Lili

A.Sukitu wrote:
>Her singing is pure . . .

Lilifyre wrote:
>I feel that her voice is, shall we say an "acquired taste"? She has a great deal of tremolo when she sings. [snip] I like her work but only in small doses. [snip] I get "tired" of her voice quickly.

'pure' is most certainly not the word i would have chosen. because of it's jarring vibrato sound a discerning ear can tolerate only two or three minutes at a time before feelings of unpleasantness are experienced. voices in the genre of popular music that may be described as 'pure'? listen to joan baez, anjani thomas, sarah brightman, whitney houston, celine dion, etc. janis joplin's singing was the opposite of pure; it was 100% raucus and horrible. but she had an energy in her voice so dynamic that one was compelled to pay attention - an absolutely essential quality if the artiste can't sing. buffy, unfortunately, is neither a dynamic performer nor was she "born with the gift of a golden voice" to which leonard rightly makes claim. but of course working class ignoramuses who lack any capacity to understand the concept of good taste can enjoy what cultured people regard as awful - that is a fact i understand and respect.

Geoffrey, I for one, do not appreciate your last statement: "but of course working class ignoramuses who lack any capacity to understand the concept of good taste can enjoy what cultured people regard as awful - that is a fact i understand and respect."

We certainly can disagree on this forum without being disagreeable. There is no need for name calling or claiming that someone is "uncultured" simply because he/she finds one voice pleasing when you find it "awful". We each have different tastes and that's as it should be. Personally, I find the singer, Antony, to have an unpleasant quality to his voice. Others, Leonard included, find his voice very pleasing. Your attitude, however, appears to be totally lacking in both understanding and respect. A difference of opinion or preference for one voice over another does not equal "culture" on the part of one or "ignorance" on the part of the other.

Lili

Lilifyre wrote:
>There is no need for name calling . . .

and yet you hesitate not to call me "disagreeable" (definition = 'unpleasant and repellent')

>. . . simply because he/she finds one voice pleasing when you find it "awful".

you called it "an acquired taste" that your ears can stand "only in small doses", whereas i was slightly more honest and spoke "the awful truth" - as leonard calls it in 'closing time'.

>I get "tired" of her voice quickly.

like me, you quickly want to turn it off. tell me about it.

>I find the singer, Antony, to have an unpleasant quality to his voice.

people with homophobia often call his voice "unpleasant" (definition = 'offensive and objectionable').

>Leonard . . . finds his voice very pleasing.

good for him, so do i.

>Your attitude . . . appears to be totally lacking in both understanding and respect.

so what did you think when leonard called writers who try to sound like charlie manson as 'lousy little poets'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3l5rNTOaM

She seemed to have a great appreciation for our man. She calls him a mentor and a poet first. Geoffrey the vibrato in Buffy's voice comes from the culture of which she is a part. Like all other cultures, the music may not be what you are used to. I have some difficulty listening to Tibetan throat singers, but that's just me. I greatly admire Buffy St Marie for being one of the first aboriginal women to draw on her cultural roots in her music and to proudly present it. Rather than hiding who she was. I have found that people who need to feel superior in any way, are often trying to hide something about themselves.

Very nicely put, St.Theresa. Not everyone agrees on what is pleasing to the ear. Each different culture has its own norms. As they say, "Beauty is in the eye (or in this case, the ear) of the beholder. There is no need to disparage one culture in order to promote another.

I come to this forum to share ideas and opinions. I come to learn from others and hopefully to teach a bit along the way. I don't always agree with what others have to say, but I do try to respect their opinions. I do not come here to bash anyone's beliefs or opinions. I do not come here to fight or engage in flame wars. There are many other venues on the internet where such things go on and if I choose to engage in such activities, I can go there. I certainly do not come here to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent...I can do that on any number of political websites

The issue of one singer's voice over another is simply a matter of opinion. Everyone has one. They need not be the same for intelligent people to discuss them. As you said, "...people who need to feel superior in any way, are often trying to hide something about themselves." I've noticed that those who feel the need to belittle other people's opinions usually are somewhat doubtful about their own. The only person one needs to prove something to, is oneself.

Lili

st theresa wrote: I greatly admire Buffy St Marie for being one of the first aboriginal women to draw on her cultural roots in her music and to proudly present it.

Thank you st theresa for this statement. I'm posting the following link as Buffy St-Marie draws from her Native American roots. She is also involved in Native American issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_Sainte-Marie

In Dutch there we have a saying 'It is impossible to argue about taste'. And doesn't this thread prove it. No need to get insulting about someone else's likes or dislikes in music!! Lilifyre: well said!!

I like this song very much. Hope somewhere in the world there is a Lenny-sung version.

The Bells

I'm writing this to say goodbye
To what you never should reply
That all of the Lords and Demons that you leave
I stand entirely alone
That is to say your loving me
Would be our only crime

And isn't it a pity
You can see all her beauty clearly
In the midst of some grey city
In the midst of all this love

Many men have loved the bells
You fastened to the rain
And everyone who wanted you
Found what she would always want again
And I'd have been the dust for you
And I'd have been the grass for you

But you tell me with your beauty
You can see her duty clearly
In the midst of New-York-City
In the midst of all my love

Your body like a searchlight
In the prison of my need
Oh I would share your loneliness
And I demand your greed
And everything depends upon
How near you sleep to me

And isn't it a pity
You can see all her duty clearly
In the midst of New-York-City
In the midst of all our love

I will be writing this
When you are so very young again
That the forests that you burned away
And then sailed away are truly truly gone
I will be waiting where a starfish is your head
And the jewels for your shoulders
Fall through the walls of sand
Fall through the walls of sand

Hi Weilin,
I thought I’d add a few hopefully helpful things here
Firstly, I hear a few words different to some written above and also on the net.
in the midst of some great city
you fastened to the rein
where a star fish is your hand
the next line – “and the jewels for your shoulders” relate to -

(The) Jewels (On) In Your Shoulder
(Buffalo 6th April 1967 & 1967 Studio Recording Sessions 5th June Takes 2, 5 & 6 version of Take This Longing)

It would appear that both Bells and The Jewels In Your Shoulder were in the Set List at Fillmore Room, University of Buffalo, Buffalo, NY, USA https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/leonard- ... 5c255.html - but if you click in the link to hear and see the songs you get standard versions and for Jewels and Bells there's LC & Judy Collins with HTNWTSG and on tour Anthem respectively:
1. Suzanne
2. The Stranger Song
3. Master Song
4. The Jewels In Your Shoulder
5. Love Calls You by Your Name
6. Encore 1: Beautiful Losers
7. Encore 2: Bells
8. Encore 3: (Unknown)

Some words by LC about The Bells and Take This Longing on the back cover of Greatest Hits –

Buffy Ste. Marie recorded an early version of this called The Bells. It took me six or seven years to get a version for myself. I began while listening to Nico sing at the Dome on the 8th Street in 1966. I broke the code in Asmara and finished the song in the shed on St Dominique Street in Montreal last year.

1976 Greatest Hits (back cover)
If you don't already know, do yourself a favour and read the how, when, where and why of the other songs
.... and also the front cover

And here too - (the whole interview is interesting reading as well)
https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... =5&t=20064

October 1974 interview in ZigZag Magazine referring to Bells -

ZZ: And there is a song called "Bells" I think.
LC: She recorded "Bells". An early, early version, which we do. I just recorded that now. It's a version completely changed from the one I taught her.

1971 She Used To Wanna Be A Ballerina (back cover)

Unfortunately, no "gift of a golden voice" but that’s the closest I can get you to it for this one

Thanks for connecting the dots, Beverly. Much appreciated.

I remember, like 3 years ago, there was a 10CD set called 1967 including all takes of LC's first album. There's only online listing and info but you couldn't purchase or stream. This boxset should include the bells and jewels in your shoulder. Hope some day in the near future there will be an official release.