leonardcohenforum.com

Casey, I promise you. I have zero desire to be jury or judge, plus capital punishment is barbaric –ugh!

I'm not clear whose shoes you're saying I've never walked in. Leonard's? Jesus'? A man's? Nope. Nope. And nope again. But that doesn't mean that I'm not interested in understanding their points of view.

You stand up for what you believe in, good for you. We all come here to share our opinions and hear yours. But what makes you think that your view of christianity is the definitive one? Or that you know a big secret that the rest of us don't? Can't a person be moved by the beauty and fairness – the humanity inherent in the sermon on the mount without holding the belief that Jesus is the son of God?

Hmmm... regarding Mr. Thou Shalt Not; perhaps it was Man that created God in his own image, not the other way around.

imaginary friend wrote:perhaps it was Man that created God in his own image, not the other way around. :shock:

Ennerantly, by the book, that is the complete truth God has been teaching us.

But look what God has gone and done now.

He's created us in His Image behind our backs. :-)

Casey

And IF, sorry, I meant spiritual judge, jury, and executioner, as used by Jesus to John: "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

Spiritual is not literal, thank God. Or the Bible would be one horrendously bloody tale, wouldn't it.

It is the Spirit that quickens.

Quick, it's time.

Casey

I'm all for Leonard's way with women, but he's changed...

Hi Casey ~

I missed the point of the analogy you made preceding this and your conclusion, as well. Of course, he's changed. That's a given, as people grow and grow older, as well.


~ Lizzy

Casey Butler wrote: Here's what happens to men who go too far empathizing with women: We're driving down a dirt road up on Kolob, it gets really rocky. I say, time to turn around. My wife says, but what's around the corner up there, come on! I say, but Dorothy only has four inches clearance! Those are big rocks! She says, you can avoid them... So a rock takes out my muffler and there was just a dead end around that corner.

Casey

Well, at least you found out what was around the corner.

Oh by the way
God said, he would like me to ask you, to stop making everyone a judge - he said that was his job.
He also said, he would like me to ask you, to return his gavel - he said suspects you've swiped it off his desk again.
Also, please stop talking about people hacking off their heads with sharp objects (okay God didn't actually mention that, it's just disturbing)
God said, he would have asked you himself, except he finds that when he trys to talk to you, you just tell him he said something different.
God said he found that very frustrating.

God said that I, Cate shouldn't tease you so much, but I'm not sure what he meant by that.

I don't remember saying any of that Cate.
Maybe my memory loss has something to do with the mystical "ineffable" thingy.

Cate wrote:He also said, he would like me to ask you, to return his gavel - he said suspects you've swiped it off his desk again.

At least he called us suspects...

God said, he would have asked you himself, except he finds that when he trys to talk to you, you just tell him he said something different. God said he found that very frustrating.

I figure he knows what I'll say he said, so he talks to me accordingly - so I'll end up saying what he meant.

God said that I, Cate shouldn't tease you so much, but I'm not sure what he meant by that.

I know this is tricky.

It's like reading the news only to find the lyrics to It's A Rainy Night In Georgia. Then having to figure out from the lyrics what the news is. Because all I know about Georgia is, the dirt is red there.

Casey

I tried to talk to God a few times, but all God would do was tell me to get back to my life.
"Quit worrying about all that, Manna, you've got studying to do." ...
"Quit worrying about all that, Manna, you've got a house to clean." ...
"Quit worrying about all that, Manna, you need to go shopping." ...

It seems to me it's living that God prefers over prayer. He put me here to live, so live I shall, and that itself is acknowledgment of his address, which is always there.

and blah blah blah
time to get back to life...........

Manna wrote:I tried to talk to God a few times, but all God would do was tell me to get back to my life.
"Quit worrying about all that, Manna, you've got studying to do." ...
"Quit worrying about all that, Manna, you've got a house to clean." ...
"Quit worrying about all that, Manna, you need to go shopping." ...

That's how you know it's not God - if it's anything to do with maintaining our murderous status quo here, it's not from God - but of course, it really is since God created the people telling you what to do, who usually think of themselves as God's Servants so they are.

By His Spirit only: Dreams are from God, visions are from God, pop-in words are from God. If you're perverse, they'll be perverse, if you're sweet, they'll be sweet, if you're egotistical, they'll be egotistical, etc.

Perverse stuff is harder to figure out, but I perservere perversely.

Everything the churches attribute to "Satan", all that "supernatural" stuff that actually happens, is from God.

If there is a God who is like Christ taught us, who else could do it? We need to rethink what we've been taught to think, because it doesn't work that way. We've proven it.

Churches (religions) forbid dreams, visions - especially Biblical views presented by their "children" that are contrary to their own - because allowing them would make the church chaos, and it could not perform its function of preserving the words of Jesus until we are ready to hear them.

When the church accused Jesus of "casting out devils" by the power of Beelzebub, Jesus pointed out: "If I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges."

Churches call the Spirit of God manifested in people "Beelzebub" and "Satan", and his scripturally recorded methods of communication "Satanic" - because each manifestation is different, addressed to a unique individual.

We are their children, and we are their judges. But, as Jesus said: "Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?"

Is it so hard to see the right thing to do, when all four Gospels are like blueprints for what to do?

In Leonard Cohen's words:

Take a long time with your anger,
sleepy head.
Don't waste it in riots.
Don't tangle it with ideas.
The Devil won't let me speak,
will only let me hint
that you are a slave,
your misery a deliberate policy
of those in whose thrall you suffer,
and who are sustained
by your misfortune.
The atrocities over there,
the interior paralysis over here--
Pleased with the better deal?
You are clamped down.
You are being bred for pain.
The Devil ties my tongue.
I'm speaking to you,
'friend of my scribbled life'.
You have been conquered by those
who know how to conquer invisibly.
The curtains move so beautifully,
lace curtains of some
sweet old intrigue:
the Devil tempting me
to turn away from alarming you.
So I must say it quickly.
Whoever is in your life,
those who harm you,
those who help you;
those whom you know
and those whom you do not know --
let them off the hook,
help them off the hook.
Recognize the hook.
You are listening to Radio Resistance.

Help them off the hook, help them off the hook, help them off the hook, Leonard Cohen.

When the "Devil" lets this man speak, the hooks will evaporate, one church at a time, counting backwards like falling dominos.

Casey

Go forth and live.

Consider walking on the sidewalk. I am watching out my window as various people walk along. They don't need to be consciously aware of gravity, friction, etc. All those things coming together to make it possible, no rather, present - to make walking present for them - that is the address of God. You can acknowledge it if you want, but I don't know if that matters as much as living in it itself.

btw - pretty dang flippant to tell me something I know in my core, and spoke about from my heart isn't God. I hope I never do that to anyone.

...if it's anything to do with maintaining our murderous status quo here, it's not from God - but of course, it really is since God created the people...

if it be Your will to make us well.

I would suppose that everyone wants to go forth and live.

According to that nasty fellow Jesus, God's will is to make everybody well, regardless of race, gender, religion or lack thereof.

I've stepped out of God's way, is all I've done, and accepted that.

I apologize for being flippant, though. Maybe I'll be healed of that when everyone is, or maybe it's a good thing.

Casey