leonardcohenforum.com

Oh yeah. The poem. I think it may work as a song just fine, but as a poem, I think my attention span is too short for it. I haven't made it past the first 4 lines. Sorry. Can you get your guitar & stick yourself up on you tube for us?

Cool that she's not really ignoring you.

"bait", "Wiley", " Sneaky"

Gees Mat, sounds like you have some kind of conspiracy plan theory thingy, going on there.

According to Homer, they are admirable traits.
Well, at least "wiley". (The wiley Odysseus and the Trojan horse, just to mention one)
Of course I could be "projecting" as Jung would say, as Homer was talking about men>

I'm off bush for ten days.
Good fortunes to you all.

Matj

All these Jung and Homer and Van Gogh references...

Teratogen
Your poems are too long for the general reader.
They're too sacrificial to impress this girl the way you want to.
She might be flattered because they're about her, but I'm with Manna on this.
It has to be a two-way thing.
It's not.
You're the only one in this relationship.
Doesn't matter how wonderful you think she is, if she can't find the time to send you a mail/text message, she's not interested.
Give up.
You won't be any worse off than you are already and at least you'll have some self-respect.
Where's the failure in having tried (too hard, I'd say)?

Put some of that wasted energy into your writing. You'll get a better return on it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, damellon. That's just exactly what I didn't need.

Teratogen

I don't flatter myself that anything I say will make a difference.
But who knows which words, out of all those heard or read in a day, will reach us - some of these might be exactly what you need.
My lack of confidence is not in you, it's in her and whatever idea you have that this is going to work.
You talk of failure - it's never a failing to want or to love, but it is a waste to persist with someone who's patently not interested.
Unless she's of low intelligence, she knows how you feel. She's not responding.
What's the intelligent thing for you to do? - more of the same?

Your poems - are you writing anything other than these billet-doux?
If you aren't, you should.
And make them shorter, if you don't want to lose your reader.

It's not exactly poetry. This is poetry and MUSIC by the forum members. The first three were songs I wrote. Only maybe this last one is a poem. And I'm not too concerned about losing readers or whatever. I never had too many to begin with. And what's more, I'm used to reading long poetry. I wouldn't even consider three 8-line stanzas too long. The lines themselves aren't even that long.

Apologies, Teratogen -
I did read them all but hadn't realised that the first three were songs and since I know nothing about songwriting,
I shouldn't include them in my comments.
I also seem to have misunderstood the purpose of your writing.
I assumed that you wrote to be read.
Since you didn't like what I said about your love interest either, it looks like I bummed out on all counts.

Well of course I write to be read, and heard. If someone's not interested because it's not a haiku or a sonnet then they can go f*** themselves gently with a chainsaw if they want some brief action. I don't write for tight attention spans. Those people can eat Ritalin and read Shel Silverstein and listen to Peter Alsop cassettes for all I care. Telling me to cut down my poems or songs or whatever isn't really any valid kind of criticism.

I enjoy reading long poems if they are interesting to me.

I forced myself past the first 4 lines, and it did get a bit more interesting. The trouble with this is that it is mostly written quite obviously. "I was afraid ..." Generally a declaration of emotion is a sign of a lousy poem. Not always, but generally.

There are also some troubling things about the first 2 lines. When someone calls out from the darkness, it's not a happy noodle salad kind of call. It's most likely "help me," but might be, "come with me." And then our narrator did not respond. So the narrator begins his life in this poem as a non-credible figure. So he's not starting off with much sympathy from me. Is that what you intended?

It's a mistake to assume that since I can't tolerate boredom that there is something wrong with me. I am not properly equipped to follow your instructions. If I were, I wouldn't be spending my time here. I'd be having much more fun reading Shel Silverstein. Shel has some poems longer than these from you, but they are fun to read because he uses unusual, sometimes made-up language and makes unexpected connections.

Manna wrote:I forced myself past the first 4 lines, and it did get a bit more interesting. The trouble with this is that it is mostly written quite obviously. "I was afraid ..." Generally a declaration of emotion is a sign of a lousy poem. Not always, but generally.

Well, when I'm in the process of writing something I can't make out clearly exactly why I write certain lines in the way they come out. But in retrospect they are easier to understand or decipher. Perhaps I was trying not to be so generally obvious at first in the ways I spoke, to her or others, but when nothing came of it perhaps I thought best to be straightforward. I find it easier to beat around the bush sometimes; to not be overt. Sometimes it's difficult to come to grips with an emotion you don't particularly want to believe you're feeling. I also think that played a part in some of the straightforward lines. I hope a declaration of an emotion is not a sign of a lousy person.

Manna wrote:There are also some troubling things about the first 2 lines. When someone calls out from the darkness, it's not a happy noodle salad kind of call. It's most likely "help me," but might be, "come with me." And then our narrator did not respond. So the narrator begins his life in this poem as a non-credible figure. So he's not starting off with much sympathy from me. Is that what you intended?

It's hard for me to say with this one. It was hard for me emotionally to write this poem in particular. Perhaps I'm trying to say that I'm not worthy. But how do you know that the caller is calling out in a plea for help? Perhaps the caller is calling out for someone to join them in the darkness. Just a thought. I can't say for sure how I intended it. Actually, I'd venture to say that I intended "the darkness" to simply be the unknown. The unknown could be good, could be bad, but it's an unknown and unknowns tend to be approached with caution.

Manna wrote:It's a mistake to assume that since I can't tolerate boredom that there is something wrong with me. I am not properly equipped to follow your instructions. If I were, I wouldn't be spending my time here. I'd be having much more fun reading Shel Silverstein. Shel has some poems longer than these from you, but they are fun to read because he uses unusual, sometimes made-up language and makes unexpected connections.

It would be a mistake to assume that, but I can't imagine someone claiming boredom after reading two lines. Or even the entire poem for that matter. How long can it take? I can't imagine boredom being manifest in 2 minutes tops. I would assume it takes a bit more time. Unless, of course, someone has an attention problem. My mention of Shel Silverstein was probably not a good one in comparison to those who write short poems, but when mentioned with Peter Alsop I was thinking more of children's stuff because most children aren't fans of "long" poetry.

Teratogen wrote:

Manna wrote:...It's most likely "help me," but might be, "come with me." ...

... But how do you know that the caller is calling out in a plea for help? Perhaps the caller is calling out for someone to join them in the darkness. Just a thought. I can't say for sure how I intended it. Actually, I'd venture to say that I intended "the darkness" to simply be the unknown.

If it were the unknown, a cloud would be the proper cliché. But now I'm razzing you.

Teratogen wrote:...

It would be a mistake to assume that, but I can't imagine someone claiming boredom after reading two lines. Or even the entire poem for that matter. How long can it take? I can't imagine boredom being manifest in 2 minutes tops.

you are right, and I should speak more clearly. It was the prediction of boredom that put me off. It is the responsibility of the opening lines of a poem to catch my interest.

also wanted to say - it may be more interesting as a song. You can get away with certain things in songs that you just can't in written poems. for example:

let it be
let it be
let it be yeah
let it be
shine until tomorrow
let it be

I hadn't really listened to this song in a long time, and when it came on today, I allowed myself to pay attention, and I choked up.

I choke up to that song too. In fact, it happened to me just the other day in the car on the way to see some family for the 4th of July.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7418940.stm



First, Sir Terry, may I congratulate you on your knighthood. When we last spoke you never mentioned you were up for the Honour from Her Maj. Secondio, what's all this fuss you made about the Eurovision Song Contest, can you please explain the position?

thanks

Lord (outranks you) Mickey of One