Your smell is gone

[Manna]

I don't think it's a mistake to allow yourself to experience loss. Likewise joy, which is one reason why I am not religious.

Sean,
I'm glad you have come to see me as -

a tremendously kind and nice human being

Sometimes it seems to me that the main mode of interaction I have with you is arguing.
||shrug||

[daka]

I don't think it's a mistake to allow yourself to experience loss. Likewise joy, which is one reason why I am not religious.

Sean,
I'm glad you have come to see me as -

a tremendously kind and nice human being

Sometimes it seems to me that the main mode of interaction I have with you is arguing.
||shrug||

I agree we seem to mostly argue different points. We did however have a nice run on non-argumentative process when we were microscopically defining 'love' in another thread.. maybe the God is Dead thread... until the love-phobic types stepped in and sabotaged it.

By the way, I have been quite moved by The Song of Bernadette, listening to it and learning it. I didn't know Leonard had that depth of understanding of love in his hedonistic days. I am grateful to Greg for pointing it out.

Likewise I do not think it is a mistake to allow yourself to experience loss... or joy. To deny either of these is silly or to grasp at them as permanent is silly. I don't think we have a difference in views, maybe there is a difference in framing them and in valuing them and in developing a particular attitude in response to those truths that it seems we share.

Likewise, I don't consider myself 'religious' and I don't consider Leonard religious. I understand 'religion' to be dependent on a belief in a creator god. I am as religious as quantum physicists, or phenomenological philosophers or phenomenological psychologists. Buddhism falls in the realm of philosophy and psychology. It looks like a religion but it is not. The rituals and inspirational images can lead to this misunderstanding. Even simplistic Buddhist believers can treat Buddhism like a religion but serious students and realized beings do not.

Long day!

all good things

Sean

[Diane]

Reminds me, Sean, of a conversation recently...

The monk and the poet deep in discussion in an Irish garden was poetry in itself, in my eyes.

[daka]

HERE IT IS

......'IT' being all phenomena appearing in our reality


I was picking some Leonard songs this morning and came across... "Here It Is" .. again.. I played it a bit, and realized how much it relates to the themes of this thread... impermanence and attachment to "things".. all phenomena, including experiences and people etc.. Lama Leonard learned these lessons well and put them in this song (from 10 New Songs). So here are the words:

(It's a bit hard to play because the first two verses have one chord!)

Sure, I still grasp at 'things', at their permanence, and that's what inspired that poem...it was a confession of sorts, not a wallowing in melancholic despair...(just a dipping of the toe in that pond to test the temperature)..("Your smell is gone").... but my medicine is this ancient wisdom:

HERE IT IS

Em
Here is your crown
And your seal and your rings
And here is your love
For all this

Em
Here is your cart
And your cardboard and piss
And here is your love
For all this

Am
May everyone live
Bm7 Em
May everyone die
Am
Hello my love
Bm7 Em
And my love goodbye

Here is your wine
And your drunken fall
And here is your love
Your love for it all

Here is your sickness
Your bed and your pan
And here is your love
For the woman, the man

May everyone live
May everyone die
Hello, my love
And my love, goodbye

And here is the night
The night has begun
And here is your death
In the heart of your son

And here is the dawn
'Till death do us part
And here is your death
In your daughter's heart

May everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

And may everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

And here you are hurried
And here you are gone
And here is the love
It's all built upon

Here is you cross
Your nails and your hill
And here is the love
That lists where it will

May everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

And may everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

I do not find this song depressing at all. I find the denial of these truths to be horrifying and depressing.

This is not one of Leonard's most popular songs! He didn't play it in Dublin. I know some people who have an unexamined distaste for this song. I imagine one would be reluctant to sing it to to their children before bedtime... maybe when they reach the "age of reason".... I think the Catholics claimed that to be 7 years of age! My Catechism is ancient!... please correct me if I am wrong, someone!..... generally, the sooner the better!

all good things

Séan

[William]

This is all wonderfully deep and meaningless.
Thank you all.

God bless,
William

[daka]

This is all wonderfully deep and meaningless.
Thank you all.

God bless,
William

"William"'s broad insult applies to all who have contributed to this thread.

Dear moderators

Is this appropriate behaviour on William's part? It seems rather arrogant, opinionated, hurtful, sarcastic and insulting. Maybe William is a real troll someone is hiding behind or maybe he is a real bastard Brit. Regardless, he should be reined in.

The most insulting aspect of his communication is his gall and nerve to insult and then sign off with a spiritual salutation.

Séan

[Cate]

HERE IT IS

HERE IT IS

Em
Here is your crown
And your seal and your rings
And here is your love
For all this

Em
Here is your cart
And your cardboard and piss
And here is your love
For all this

Am
May everyone live
Bm7 Em
May everyone die
Am
Hello my love
Bm7 Em
And my love goodbye

Here is your wine
And your drunken fall
And here is your love
Your love for it all

Here is your sickness
Your bed and your pan
And here is your love
For the woman, the man

May everyone live
May everyone die
Hello, my love
And my love, goodbye

And here is the night
The night has begun
And here is your death
In the heart of your son

And here is the dawn
'Till death do us part
And here is your death
In your daughter's heart

May everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

And may everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

And here you are hurried
And here you are gone
And here is the love
It's all built upon

Here is you cross
Your nails and your hill
And here is the love
That lists where it will

May everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

And may everyone live
May everyone die
Hello my love
And my love goodbye

I do not find this song depressing at all. I find the denial of these truths to be horrifying and depressing.

This is not one of Leonard's most popular songs! He didn't play it in Dublin. I know some people who have an unexamined distaste for this song. I imagine one would be reluctant to sing it to to their children before bedtime... maybe when they reach the "age of reason".... I think the Catholics claimed that to be 7 years of age! My Catechism is ancient!... please correct me if I am wrong, someone!..... generally, the sooner the better!

all good things

Séan

I like this song.
It has the sweet sadness of a lullaby. There's comfort here, which for me both acknowledges and comforts that fear of separation from those that you care for. As you might say to help accept that things aren't permanent. I don't know, these words seem to express to me that loss and longing is part of life and to be accepted. I don't find it depressing but it does make me sad - sad's okay. I want to feel a bit sad about it. Although I know he's right, I don't think I'm quite ready to accept what he's saying and that's okay to.


I have another one for you from Death of a Ladies man, slightly off topic but the song makes me think of it.

BESIDE MY SON

I lay beside my sleeping son.
He was not a child now.
A dream radiated from his lips.
He was unusually good company.

BESIDE MY SON

May you bless the union of your mother and father
May you discard easily the husks of my thought
May you stand on my dead body

[mickey_one]

This is all wonderfully deep and meaningless.
Thank you all.

God bless,
William

"William"'s broad insult applies to all who have contributed to this thread.

Dear moderators

Is this appropriate behaviour on William's part? It seems rather arrogant, opinionated, hurtful, sarcastic and insulting. Maybe William is a real troll someone is hiding behind or maybe he is a real bastard Brit. Regardless, he should be reined in.

The most insulting aspect of his communication is his gall and nerve to insult and then sign off with a spiritual salutation.

Séan

Hi Séan, the only time I see posts from "William" is when someone repeats them. So, thanks!

I applied Jarkko's "foe" facility to "William" many months ago and have certainly not missed him since. However, In my case it may have been different as he distinctly moved from trolling to stalking.

Sometimes I feel we should show understanding for someone so deeply unhappy. He particularly struggles with anyone else's contentedness and I remember he has an allergy to the sharing of family photos. I think we can infer he is lonely and hurting and we should be aware that psychologically he may be highly fragile.

I am certainly not seeking to discourage you from reporting him and he is well enough known to the moderators as they have banned him before for malicious posting. However, I am concerned that most of the time his thing is just low-level trolling and this causes just low-level nuisance. I doubt he he is sharp enough to realise the insensitivity of his comments. It reads to me like him showing-off and craving attention, no more. Insults from someone so unaware need not carry any significance.

What bothers me is the danger that we could tip him back into his drinking problem. I wonder if others could also just simply ignore him and maybe he will go away for good or take a little time to reconsider his silly behaviour

regards

michael

[daka]

michael

How curious that when 'William' is attacked, you should immediately appear in his defense!

Is this a mere coincidence? (We won't do the courtroom thing here)

I have personally experienced your hurtful and mischievous behaviour in this forum and a number of other people (people who I hold in high regard) have had lengthy heated debates with you over your cruelty, abusiveness, inconsideration and insensitivity.

You have free will. You can act in whatever way that the moderators will tolerate here. It's your choice; personally I will be hoping that one day you will 'see the light' and start putting your energy and good qualities to better purpose. (..maybe writing plays or sitcoms)

Perhaps a lesson in morality might be useful. The definition of evil. Do you know it?

Evil
Evil E*vil ([=e]"v'l) a. [OE. evel, evil, ifel, uvel, AS.
yfel; akin to OFries, evel, D. euvel, OS. & OHG. ubil, G.
["u]bel, Goth. ubils, and perh. to E. over.]
1. Having qualities tending to injury and mischief; having a
nature or properties which tend to badness; mischievous;
not good; worthless or deleterious; poor; as, an evil
beast; and evil plant; an evil crop.
[1913 Webster]

Someone dropped the ball... parents, church, synagogue?

The simple Buddhist definition is........ 'causing suffering'.

I wrote this to you because your behaviour, generally speaking, has been causing suffering to many people, and this is inexcusable. At the very least you are guilty of having a penchant for making a fool out of people. You need to ask yourself ...Why?

God Bless

Séan

[mickey_one]

michael

How curious that when 'William' is attacked, you should immediately appear in his defense!

Is this a mere coincidence? (We won't do the courtroom thing here)

I have personally experienced your hurtful and mischievous behaviour in this forum and a number of other people (people who I hold in high regard) have had lengthy heated debates with you over your cruelty, abusiveness, inconsideration and insensitivity.

You have free will. You can act in whatever way that the moderators will tolerate here. It's your choice; personally I will be hoping that one day you will 'see the light' and start putting your energy and good qualities to better purpose. (..maybe writing plays or sitcoms)

Perhaps a lesson in morality might be useful. The definition of evil. Do you know it?

Evil
Evil E*vil ([=e]"v'l) a. [OE. evel, evil, ifel, uvel, AS.
yfel; akin to OFries, evel, D. euvel, OS. & OHG. ubil, G.
["u]bel, Goth. ubils, and perh. to E. over.]
1. Having qualities tending to injury and mischief; having a
nature or properties which tend to badness; mischievous;
not good; worthless or deleterious; poor; as, an evil
beast; and evil plant; an evil crop.
[1913 Webster]

Someone dropped the ball... parents, church, synagogue?

The simple Buddhist definition is........ 'causing suffering'.

I wrote this to you because your behaviour, generally speaking, has been causing suffering to many people, and this is inexcusable. At the very least you are guilty of having a penchant for making a fool out of people. You need to ask yourself ...Why?

God Bless

Séan

Hi Séan, I am not "William", never have been, and, Please God, never will be.

I expect Jarkko has some super duper way of comparing IP thingies if you really are distracted by that thought.

I have a very strong tendency to mischief but giving sometime harsh crit. of writing here is not an example. Thank goodness I have made so many friends here and funnily enough I hold them all in very high regard for their wisdom perception, and good taste. Many such friendships have lasted many years so I am lucky they read me so differently than you do.

Anyway, this will clearly teach me not to get involved in someone else's issues and expressing a view favouring forgiveness! However irritating "William" is I am afraid that I would prefer him to reform rather than another cyber-spat being mistaken for real life.

Best of luck with reaching a conclusion that is satisfactory for you. You seem a nice chap to me

michael

[mickey_one]

Séan, I just answered Henning in a thread called La Di Dah, and in view of your harsh comments here I took a moment to read the responses there. I am really touched by the lovely friendship of all who responded. I am not referring to their generous praise of the poem but their obvious affection towards me. I am really lucky to have met them all and you have inadvertently done me a great favour tonight by reminding me of that.

This is particularly good timing as Cato just leapt on the table and smashed the pill-bottle and ate his 5 day prescription of pain-killers in one go. He is a beautiful 7 year olf flat-coated retriever but bright? hmmm

For a while now he will be, just like me, impervious to pain so you are safe to be as critical of him as you are of me. Go on, insult his doggerel, he just won't care.

michael

[Manna]

This is particularly good timing as Cato just leapt on the table and smashed the pill-bottle and ate his 5 day prescription of pain-killers in one go. He is a beautiful 7 year olf flat-coated retriever but bright? hmmm

He might be bright. Maybe he reallllllly likes painkillers, can read, and knows which drugs are which. Better keep and eye on that pooch just to be safe, or he might get into your painkillers.

[mickey_one]

This is particularly good timing as Cato just leapt on the table and smashed the pill-bottle and ate his 5 day prescription of pain-killers in one go. He is a beautiful 7 year olf flat-coated retriever but bright? hmmm

He might be bright. Maybe he reallllllly likes painkillers, can read, and knows which drugs are which. Better keep and eye on that pooch just to be safe, or he might get into your painkillers.

The vet contacted their "poison unit" and the overdose was nowhere near the danger level so I have now been 2 days on my own (K is with a friend in France) and I have not lost either dog or either teenage girl. Who said I couldn't cope!

Lord Mickey of Housework

ps have you any idea where the milk or eggs are kept?

[daka]

Hello michael

Your poem was well-written. Thanks for the steer. I haven't been surfing the forum of late.

Re: The troll accusation, you have surfaced in my mind as a suspect, with circumstancial evidence. Perhaps you know better than anyone, due to your profession, what are the chances of anyone being convicted in the court of Cohen of having 'trolled'? Has this ever happened? What was the sentence?

It was enjoyable for me to be introduced to the' Michael' persona yesterday. My first experience of Mickey-one in this forum was in January of this year. You made this statement in a thread:

Just remember, Daka, the world is a dangerous place. Only yesterday I went into McDonalds and punched a shop assistant in the face.

Not knowing you, I took you at your word and responded to your 'confession'. After a short while you confessed (again) to having put me on. So my first introduction was to a 'persona' of Michael's, the character who was capable of punching out an unfortunate MacDonald's shop clerk. I was able to deal with the wind-up and public humiliation and ego deflation because this is all good for me.

Later I observed your 'savage crit' persona in action. Someone else engaged you in a fierce debate over this 'persona' and I sat back and listened. I later had the opportunity to appreciate more directly the mental fragility of the subject of the crit, and this made that 'savage crit persona' even more problematic, in my opinion.

I have thought about you a bit more than usual, especially since learning that you are defending rather dodgy characters during the day (terrorists... potential suicide-bombers etc). It sees to me that your daily vocation is quite related to this theme of personas. I imagine that you are intensely involved in the process of 'persona' manipulation and alteration, in the minds of many people in a charged public drama. That all makes our forum activities look rather insignificant. Perhaps your persona problem here in the forum is simply an occupational hazard. The 'severe crit' could be a composite of those arrogant and caustic judges that you have endured over the years. The MacDonalds bully maybe an aggregate of the 'bad guys' you have defended over the years. Also the occasional Mickey-one fool-making mischief perhaps comes from a highly developed, possibly pathological, skill at belittling opponent personas.

Anyways, I do now appreciate a little better the complexities of Michael. I appreciate your poetry, and your wit, and your sense of humour. I will try to separate the personas and react as well as I can within my limitations.

But the mischief can be 'Evil' if it causes suffering. (last word)

All Good Things

Séan

[mickey_one]

Hello michael

Your poem was well-written. Thanks for the steer. I haven't been surfing the forum of late.

Re: The troll accusation, you have surfaced in my mind as a suspect, with circumstancial evidence. Perhaps you know better than anyone, due to your profession, what are the chances of anyone being convicted in the court of Cohen of having 'trolled'? Has this ever happened? What was the sentence?

Just remember, Daka, the world is a dangerous place. Only yesterday I went into McDonalds and punched a shop assistant in the face.

Séan

Apart from spammers I only know of one troll being banned temporarily. "William" had insulted someone on a special occasion, birthday? Can't remember the details.

I had no recollection of the McDonalds riff but I searched and found the moderately funny explanation I gave lower down that thread.

"ok Daka, time to square with you. I actually went to that branch with Greg, as you know he is a veteran, and as you may not know we are also ex-lovers, and we had been on a 6 mile hike, he wanted to carry on for just another 200 miles but I was starving, I approached the counter and asked for something vegetarian and they suggested I ate Greg, so I punched that assistant because I had no choice, I was born with a hatred of the Golden Arch and all I wanted was for Greg to like me but he said I wasn't a very nice person and he would post it on some public forum to prove it."

Greg can post posts as posty as 300 ft long and he will remain stuck with my love and admiration for him but I'm glad you didn't stick with your original trolling suspicions

regards

michael