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Re: Soldier on Golden Hill
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:05 am
by Manna
We are using the word "dishonest" differently.
Re: Soldier on Golden Hill
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:52 pm
by ~greg
i'm sorry.
"Mid-Soldier on Golden Hill"
isn't any more obscure than Avalanche's
"when I am not this hunchback that you see, I sleep beneath the golden hill."
Re: Soldier on Golden Hill
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:23 pm
by lizzytysh
What is a mid-soldier? Is that a soldier home on leave? As part of the title, it's more interesting than just "soldier" ~ probably moreso if I knew what one is.
Finally, [I think

], is there actually a hill there that the town was named after, upon which you would be standing [in the poem], so as to say " . . . on Golden Hill"]? The title could be suggesting that you are the ["mid-soldier" in some way] soldier [making your comments] on Golden Hill... like commentary-type essays are sometimes name. "GWB on terrorism" [sorry to bring him into this... I'm appalled by his and McCain's being appalled by our Supreme Court decision... so he came to mind with regard to soldiers.
~ Lizzy
Re: Soldier on Golden Hill
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:07 pm
by Manna
~greg wrote:I think there's a subliminal thingy going on in the poem.
to see how space junk
differed from satellite
-- some of the men being "space junk"
and others being "satellites".
...
That is to say, you swing wildly from dising, to deference,
with nothing in between. And that's being too much dependent.
You are a beautiful sensitive intelligent woman.
You know more than 9 out of 10 men.
And Hillary has liberated you. So you don't have to care
anymore what men think or say or "joke" about women
at work or school. They are just "stars" who are "too nervous".
You know it perfectly well that that's all that's at the root of the evil.
So act like you know it.
I was wondering if something like that might happen. The trouble, my dear Greg, is that I reallyreallyreally like men.
And one more thing, Mr. So-Called-Go-Get-Yourself-Liberated-Oh-Yeah-It-Already-Happened-Guy, I don't think I need a MAN to tell me how to express my WOMAN'S experience of MEN. Thank you very much.

Re: Soldier on Golden Hill
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:57 pm
by ~greg
The trouble, my dear Greg, is that I reallyreallyreally like men.
Ah. Well.
I just don't see what you see in them.
They are a worthless lot, if you ask me.
~~
Your poem reminded me of Lou Andreas-Salome's description of Alfred Alder
as looking like a button. Which I can't find. But then your comment reminded
me of something else.
This is from
The Art of Seduction - by Robert Greene - -
One man wrote of Salome, "There was something terrifying
about her embrace. Looking at you with her radiant blue eyes,
she would say, 'The reception of the semen is for me the height of ecstasy.'
And she had an insatiable appetite for it. She was completely amoral
... a vampire." The Swedish psychotherapist Poul Bjerre, one of her
later conquests, wrote, "'I think Nietzsche was right when he said
that Lou was a thoroughly evil woman. Evil however in the Goethian
sense: evil that produces good. . . .She may have destroyed lives
and marriages but her presence was exciting."
The two emotions that almost every male felt in the presence
of Lou Andreas-Salome were confusion and excitement—the two
prerequisite feelings for any successful seduction. People were
intoxicated by her strange mix of the masculine and the feminine;
she was beautiful, with a radiant smile and a graceful, flirtatious manner,
but her independence and her intensely analytical nature made her
seem oddly male. This ambiguity was expressed in her eyes,
which were both coquettish and probing. It was confusion
that kept men interested and curious: no other woman was like this.
They wanted to know more. The excitement stemmed from her ability
to stir up repressed desires. She was a complete nonconformist,
and to be involved with her was to break all kinds of taboos.
Her masculinity made the relationship seem vaguely homosexual;
her slightly cruel, slightly domineering streak could stir up masochistic
yearnings, as it did in Nietzsche. Salome radiated a forbidden sexuality.
Her powerful effect on men—the lifelong infatuations, the suicides
(there were several), the periods of intense creativity, the descriptions
of her as a vampire or a devil—attest to the obscure depths
of the psyche that she was able to reach and disturb.
...
Re: Soldier on Golden Hill
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:44 pm
by Manna
Yep, that sounds like me alright.
Now back to this Mid-Soldier business.
It doesn't work. OK.
And I could expound on what made me do it, but it'd just be excuses excuses. so...
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:45 am
by lizzytysh
Though I see you've changed it to simply "Soldier," you could also tell me what a "mid-soldier" is, Manna

.
~ Lizzy
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:20 am
by Manna
Well, I think mostly a mid-soldier was a me trying to get away with something.
I didn't mean it any more a mid-soldier than you would say, "Here we are now in a mid-summer."
Mid-summer is the middle of summer, and mid-soldier was, in its brief failure of a life, the middle of soldier.
Mid-summer is the time when summer is its most summery, just as mid-winter is most winterly, and I figured mid-soldier would be the point when a man is his most soldiery. Having mushroom-cloud hair and gun legs sounded pretty mid-soldier to me. With any soldier, there's more to him than his soldierness. He may have knowledge of things like cosmic meanderings, and a sweet side that can talk to a poodle, and a girl on a hill who's a little crazy about him. That's what I was trying to get away with, anyway.
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:26 am
by lizzytysh
That was an interesting series of thoughts that led to your coining of the term. It's too bad it ended up as one of those things that requires a footnote. It would've been nice if it could've stood on its own. At least you tried. Maybe, there will come a way that it can work.
Thanks for explaining it.
~ Lizzy
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:35 pm
by mat james
I reallyreallyreally like men.
or, I reallyreallyreally like (the attention I get from) men.
Matj

Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:50 pm
by ~greg
Well, I think mostly a mid-soldier was...
rats.
i thought it was going to be something filthy
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:06 pm
by Manna
mat james wrote:I reallyreallyreally like men.
or, I reallyreallyreally like (the attention I get from) men.
Matj

Well, yes, that too.
Well, I think mostly a mid-soldier was...
rats.
i thought it was going to be something filthy
Well, yes, that too. Now stand at attention! Or half way to attention, if you're too nervous.
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:40 pm
by George.Wright
Dear Manna,
Excellent work, you have me on my knees. I am the mid soldier ( one whom swaggers like John Wayne because my pants are too tight, I wear my silver gun loose on my hip to shoot down satellites). Anyways, love the imagery. Are you free to marry?
Georges.
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:05 pm
by Manna
Dear Georges,
Are you the plural of George? Or is it like Johns Hopkins?
No, I am not an eligible lady. I just like men, and if you are mid-soldier, then I surely cannot marry you.
I didn't marry this one, but I did marry, and I want to keep it that way.
So regardless of how much I like men, no funny business.
I did some editing
Re: The Gifts of Men (1)
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:06 am
by George.Wright
Manna,
Mid soldiers never give up, just because you are married does not mean you cannot have an affairs. You have awakened the beast within my legions, I have you in my sights.......
Georges.