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Sue wrote: dunno about Pound -

dunno about you dunnowing about Pound.
Because it seems to me that you know more about poets and poetry than all of us put together that leads me to think that what you mean by dunno is that you are not sure if you should take his light as light that can lead away from darkness. In other words "Can I trust him?"

If that is your question it is one that might be interesting taking a look at.
I don't know what may be all of the problems that someone might have with Pound but I do know of three things and since three is not too big a number I thought I would look at them.

The first is Pound the Traitor.

The following is a mug shot taken by the U.S. Army when they arrested him for treason. What led to that charge of treason was that Pound was writing and giving radio broadcasts in italy that was in opposition to the claims of U.S. interests. His talks were mostly about usury and that it was bankers and those with money interests that were guiding U.S. involvement in the war. A bit like saying "they are there for the oil" The basic stance that he took which many in power in the west were offended with was that democracy was not being represented.
After the war with a charge of treason on his head he was arrested in Italy by the Italians who let him go saying they had no interest in his case. There was never any record that any one other than Italians in italy were listening to him and were being influenced by him. After being released by the Italians he turned himself over to the Americans and the Army placed him in a cage near the city of Pisa. They kepted him in that cage for 25 days before putting a tent over it. Meaning that for 25 days he was exposed to not only the elements of nature but with a sign on the cage with the word "traitor" he was also exposed to things like people coming by and spitting on him. Imagine what that must have been like for a highly sensitive poet to be in that position for having the nerve to say something like democracy was not yet being represented by the U.S.A.
Although at the time he was living in italy because that was where he felt at home and also that was where his parents and daughter had made their home,he had been born in the US and so the American interests had their rights to him and he was brought back to the US to be tried. It was something that was watched by other poets and writers as a way for them to learn about the care they should give their words.
He was never tried but rather judged to be incurably insane and unable to stand trial. Since treason was a capitol offence it seems a trial would have been dangerous for all involved. One of the problems was that he just didn't seem insane. He continued on with his position that usury and banking interests were what was being conducted going under the name of democracy.
After he was finally released he left America and was asked what he thought of his home country and gave this famous reply "America is a lunatic asylum."
If he had heard at the time that years later a Leonard Cohen would sing a song called "Democracy" which was essentially saying many of the things that he was accused of and that it would actually be sung at a presidential ball he might have thought that a bit crazy but then again he might have said that Leonard could get away with it because he was Jewish, which brings us to the second thing about Pound that made people uncomfortable.

Pound's anti-Semitic statements.

Continuing long after the war while he was living in a hospital he continued with a focus that what must be struggled against was Usury and Avarice. Because of the number of Jews in the banking industry he would repeatedly speak of Jews as being who must be struggled against. This led to some of his closest friends not wanting to be in his presense any more. Eventually it seemed that he came to see the mistake that he was making in that regard. In the introduction to a book in 1972 he wrote "In sentences referring to groups or races 'they' should be used with great care. re USURY: I was out of focus, taking a symptom for a cause. The cause is AVARICE." As far as I know he never spoke about the Jews in the same way again. It takes a bit of thinking to see what he was saying in that sentence.
I think one of the reasons he was so appreciative of Buckminster Fuller was because given the opportunity to see things from Bucky's viewpoint one whould never be able to make some of the mistakes that he (Pound) made.
His time with Bucky started in Venice in 1971 and Bucky was one of the first persons he spoke to after his long public silence. He told Bucky "Everytime humanity gives me a chance, I make such a mess of it" he seemed to be in a lot of pain. This led to some very profound encounters between him and Bucky and seemingly leading to a great deal of peace and happiness on the part of Pound as well as Bucky. These encounters also included Bucky's wife Ann and Pound's companion Olga. Which brings us to the third problem that people might have had with Pound.

Pound in a ménage à trois.

For most of his life Pound was involved in an uneasy ménage à trois with two women. I have no idea of who loved who or what was the nature of their relationships. All I know was that it happened and it might have bothered people.

This was interesting for me to think about these things. I hope others find it interesting as well.

I have read a handful of Pound's poems, and enjoyed them all very much. If I ever get into poetry in a serious way, I have thought that I might begin with Pound. Everyone's life seems so interesting. Thanks for telling me this stuff, Jack. What a thing to go thru - 25 days exposed and accused. It's nearly surprising they didn't nail him to a tree.

they didnt nail him to a tree cause thats not what he needed

It was very interesting for me, Jack. Thanks for taking the time to write all of it. I had no idea of the intensity of his life. Heavy price for speaking the truth. That price is better concealed these days.


~ Lizzy

yes .totaly corect

Who has a better knacka
for making rhymes then our Daka
you'll find him talkin philosophy with Jacka
In threads such as the Cracka
what better guy to knock backa
nice herbal tea with, than Daka

Walt Whitman
holy shit man
he was it man
no grit can
no shit can
bury it man
once lit man

reason to doubt sought him
more often than not him
a train of thought caught him
the wind second thought him
fear would granny knot him
joy would turkey trot him
Sue in winter bought him

Nice to see you here Jack................

see Jack it works doesn't it? I like your one very much

.

Minna wrote:Here comes a *poem in Finnish, because it's easier to get the right lenghts of sounds to rhyme with Arabic. A lame translation into English of this lame excuse of a poem follows.

This is dedicated to a Syrian poet Nizar Qabbani, who is 'one of the most revered contemporary poets in the Arab world' (as Wikipedia puts it). He wrote great poems about love. (See a Spanish sample below. - Couldn't find it in English.)

Nizar Qabbani,
rakkaani,
lämmitä takkaani,
tai etsi sukkaani,
kun harjaan tukkaani.

~Nizar Qabbani,
my love,
warm up the fireplace,
or find my sock,
while I brush my hair.

Just been reading this, I like your sock poem with its log cabin intimacy, everybody's idea of Finland. Thanks also for the introduction to Qabbani and also, indirectly, to his poems set to music which I found here:

http://www.damascus-online.com/Music/nizar_songs.htm

Stuff like this is interesting and goes some way to answering my curiosity about what the driver is listening to when I get into a taxi..

there was a young poet called Hughes
(name of Ted, in case you're confused)

Sylvia perhaps, was his muse
but they had some differing views

somebody, alas, had to lose

.

Minna wrote: And secretchord,
Your poem about Ted Hughes was good. ...But maybe Sylvia wasn't his muse after all, but vice versa... a "marauder" type of a muse.

yes, that's why I put the 'perhaps' to indicate some ambiguity, theirs was a complex relationship I think and Hughes a powerful individual