Book of Mercy #27-28

[lazariuk]

Let me be with you again, absolute companion, let me study your ways which are just beyond the hope of evil

I thought an absolute companion might come in handy if you ever wanted to be able to say.

Let's do something crazy, something absolutely wrong.

[mat james]

Let's do something crazy, something absolutely wrong.

I have a feeling Jack that this is exactly what you are hoping for
and edging toward.

But there are no absolutes in that game.

And what is "wrong"?
and what is right?
I hear you ask

[lazariuk]

Let's do something crazy, something absolutely wrong.

I have a feeling Jack that this is exactly what you are hoping for
and edging toward.

But there are no absolutes in that game.

And what is "wrong"?
and what is right?
I hear you ask

I guess what you wrote makes sense to you Mat. What I was doing was just pointing to the fact of Leonard using the word absolute in two separate cases and was wondering if there was a relation. Do you see one?

What game did you have in mind Mat?

[mat james]

I'm just prattl'ing on Jack, pay no heed.

[DBCohen]

I usually try to stay focused on our discussion (or what's left of it), so please forgive me for introducing the following irrelevant text:

A recently-discovered lost scene from Peer Gynt (discarded because written in prose, and in a very poor style, not on par with the master’s standard).

The scene: the Troll enters a room recently furnished by Peer.

The Troll’s speech:

That’s a nice place you’ve got here. From now on it’s going to be mine. You can stay on if you want, but I’m going to spit in your teacup and pee on your rug. Why? Because I can, that’s why, and because there’s nothing you can do about it. Because it is in my nature to do so. No, there is no use asking me politely to take my act over to the next, vacant, room. I don’t listen to reason, and polite requests only make me madder. Yes, I realize that you have in mind a different use for this room. So what? Who gives a monkey’s? I’ll use it for my own pleasure, even though it got nothing to do with the original purpose for which it was created by you and your like-minded friends. You see, I come with a preconceived agenda anyhow, and I impose it on whatever is taking place here, regardless of its relevancy. I’m going to have my say every day, even if I haven’t got anything meaningful to say. Why? Why do you keep asking why? Don’t you realize that I’m only interested in me and myself and what I have to tell the world? This is my story, and there is no other. Just listen to my adoring fans. Yes, things are going to be done my way from now on. I am a Troll, and this is my nature: I rain on other people’s parade, because it gives me satisfaction. By driving them away I become bigger and bigger, until there is nothing left but my own inflated ego filling up the whole space. Oops, there isn’t any space left for you here anymore, Pore (yes I know your name is Peer, but I told you already I don’t give a dam). Why don’t YOU take your act someplace else. Only there is really no use doing so, because I’ll follow you wherever you go, and fill up any new space you try to occupy. I can’t help it. A Troll must do what a Troll must do.

[lazariuk]

btw, I would love to go back to the beginning with you.

If it is alright with you I would like to do it here in the forum but in another thread so as not to interfere in the flow of this one.
One of the things that I like about starting over is that I will get the chance to see some of the mistakes I made along the way, not so much about the mistakes I made about the book but more about how I behaved in looking at it. You will get to see them too. But there is one mistake that I made that is looking kind of large in my mind even from here which I would like to address before leaving.

One time I was trying to speak directly to someone just like I am doing right now with you and in doing so I spoke about someone else who participates here, Doron, just like I am doing right now. At that time when he responded with something and saying that since I was speaking about him that he felt that he had the right to, I told him that he didn't have the right to and that I thought he was being rude for interfering in the discussion I was having.
That was just wrong of me to do. maybe if I looked hard enough for an alibi I would find one but still my heart would tell me I was wrong and so i want to do something now.
Please forgive me Doron for that time that I was so obviously rude to you. There might have been other times that are not so obvious but I especially want to address that time because I want you to know that it would never happen again and if I am ever speaking to anyone here or in another thread and if you want to add you opinion that you would find no resistance to doing so from me.

Manna there is something else I am trying to say but I am not sure how to say it, maybe you could help. I want to leave some kind of warm open invitation to everyone here so that they feel very comfortable about joining us any time they want in going back to the beginning of this book.

[Manna]

I think as we are looking at what Leonard wrote, we will also be looking at what those involved in the previous discussion wrote. There may be times when we are discussing what Mat or Doron or anyone said, and considering it. And maybe that person would want to join in and say, "Hey, that's not what I meant." or "That's what I thought then, but now I think this..." Anyone is welcome to join in any discussion - that's what makes this a forum.

~.~

Also, I think some people want to honor Book of Mercy by trying to understand exactly what Leonard is saying, and figuring out what he drew on to say it. Others want to honor the work by letting it effect them and responding to it personally. I don't think either method is wrong; I think having both types of people involved in the discussion enhances it for everyone.

[lazariuk]

A recently-discovered lost scene from Peer Gynt (discarded because written in prose, and in a very poor style, not on par with the master’s standard).

Hi Doron
I don't know much about Ibsen's play but wasn't Peer's problem that he had lived his whole life from the lessons he learned from trolls? One of the first being that his own innermost dreams and commitments and desires were to be discarded and unmentioned in favor of outward appearences. You may know the story better than me , tell me if I am wrong.

[lizzytysh]

I knew it wasn't my imagination. Hopefully, with a full month come and gone, Simon will find some time. I've enjoyed the resurgence and revitalization of this discussion.


~ Lizzy

Re: Book of Mercy discussion anniversary--thoughts on its future
by Simon on Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:31 pm

Joe Way wrote:

I've had every intention of rejoining the conversation but a number of matters have preoccupied my time recently
Joe

Same with me here. I'm hoping to find some time next month. You guys have been quite productive and I haven't even had time to read the contributions of the last months. I don't feel I can just jump back in. I'll have a lot of reading to do in order to catch up.

Simon
Cohen is the koan
Why else would I still be stuck hereSimon

Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:09 pm
Location: Montréal
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[lazariuk]

[
One time Martin Buber wrote:

"The time will come when it will be possible to conceive of some act in Deir Yassin, an act which will symbolize our people's desire for justice and brotherhood with the Arab people."

That time is now.

For me Deir Yassin is a unique case in the history of the Holy Land.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2419569830

I hope people watch it.

I still have the same hope

Jack

[Cate]

Hi Jack, so nice to see you here.

This was a very sad and moving story, I hope that they get their memorial to commemorate the terrible event that occurred there. The fact that there was no gate into the graveyard and that they do not actually know where the bodies are located was very disturbing.

How though Jack is this a unique case in the holy land?

[lazariuk]

How though Jack is this a unique case in the holy land?

Hi Cate

That Deir Yassin stood apart came to me first in the following way:
For a very long time I have tried to follow the history of Palestine and the state of Israel. The amount of misinformation on what happened during the years of Israel's formation is very significant. When looking at it though I wanted not only to get the information that I felt I could have a degree of trust in but also to see what was the information that was being most actively promoted. One such piece of information was a booklet put out by "The Jewish Agency" called "The Arabs in Palestine" . It seemed more like just a piece of propaganda than probably anything else I read at the time but since it had been widely circulated I thought it worth reading. For the most part it tried to portray that the arabs that occupied Palestine were treated with nothing but fairness and compassion when their country was taken from them. The one exception was the acknowledgment of the massacre at Deir Yassin. Even the Jewish Agency said it was a terrible thing. It was the only admission of wrong doing in the entire booklet. I guess that makes it unique in a way.

One of the main leaders of the Jewish armed forces involved in the early conflict with the people of Palestine was Menachem Begin, who went on to become Israel's 6th Prime Minister, in his 1952 memoirs, said that without Deir Yassin there wouldn't have been an Israel, and that after it the Zionist forces could "advance like a hot knife through butter". Under advice, he removed these words from subsequent editions. That seems to also give it a unique place in the history of the region.

I also think that Deir Yassin is unique because I think it is in the range of the possible. That something could be done there by Jews and Arabs, something small that would go a long way to bring some healing and understanding to the region.

It is said that on a clear day one can see Deir Yassin from Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial Museum. Maybe that has meaning too.

Finally one more reason that it is unique for me, as of two days ago. Two days ago i was speaking to a friend who teaches in Toronto and mentioned that i had seen the video about Deir Yassin and mentioned to her that in the credits at the end I noticed one of the people had the same name as her. She told me that it was because it was her, and so much to my surprise I learned that one of the people striving to keep the memory of Deir Yassin alive was a long time personal friend of mine and it is always nice to be able to help a friend.

Jack

[Cate]

Hi again Jack,

Thank you for explaining, I see now.
What happened wasn't unique, but the agreement in the wrong doing is. A crack.
Funny that the credit name actually was your friend.

[lazariuk]

Hi Jack,

I was thinking that the issue might be opened to include any nation that is also a religion. I don't think any nation can rule to its citizens how to behave spiritually (I mean come on! this is like major DUH! to me, even though sooooo many nations have tried it.) I also don't think any state should be set up with one of its purposes being to exclude. So far, I don't know of a nation that wasn't built to exclude. Oh wait, yes I do - John Lennon's country - Newtopia.
Hi Joe. Nice to meet you.

Hi
i have a map on my wall called the Fuller Projection that shows the planet without national boundries, http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/map/dymax.html

Jack