That was again very important remark you’ve made on “A Sense Of Gratitude”. And it “works for me”, as well. Yes, just to be alive, to be able to move, to be related with others even by running some small errands - that’s “something to be grateful for”. That’s not so little!
I love very much your so-called “everyday” interpretation. Sometimes, everyone knows that, it isn’t too hard to complicate things but it isn’t easy to simplify them. I surely love refined analysis, as well (although I can’t make good analysis myself due to limited knowledge – I like when other people do that). But when we stand “face to face” before our lives – what can we know, what can we understand? – Some “simple” truths, “if we are lucky”. And, in fact, all the masterpieces, all the great works are about those “simple” truths. And they are those things that I can really take seriously. And – who knows – maybe the true point of all the complicated analyses is to reveal them in the end, to make them explicit.
Yours,
TH
P.S. Actually, I’ve read not so much of Shakespeare – Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear, Romeo and Juliet, Twelfth Night, Taming of the Shrew and The Sonnets. All of those were in Russian translations. And I hope I’ll get through the English texts.
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
I'm sorry Tanya, I really didn't mean to imply that you didn't 'understand' what Byron meant, it was just my way of reinforcing it. Actually, I don't envy your trying Shakespeare in English; some of the old English takes 'extra' translation. However, as you have rightly pointed out with Pushkin, they lose so much of their original 'music' and 'personality' when translated into another language -- it's worth it to read the original.
Back to "Errands"; Since most of LC's work is multi-layered (the hallmark of all mystics) the incongruity in this one is particularly pointed. A dog-like devotion and servility, fetching for those with little respect for 'him' as a person. That's just one impression, from one level.
Thank you for your kind words of agreement and reenforcement, Tanya I agree with what you say regarding the Masterpieces. What makes them last, I feel, is that there's a common thread of humanity [the "simple" truths] that they touch. It's through that, that they are able to last.
I definitely got the sense that you felt this was more of a sardonic listing of some of the particulars that highlighted his [the writer] being a "go-fer," more of a "complaint" than not.
However, I'm wondering what specifically has resulted in your impression of [italics are my specific areas of question]:
"A dog-like devotion and servility, fetching for those with little respect for 'him' as a person."
It's not that I couldn't just "look" at it in this way, but to really justify those more demeaning-towards-him perspectives, I need clarification. Thanks.
When we started to look at this poem, I promised that at a certain point I would try to pull together what everybody has said, so this is my attempt to do that. Skipping back and forth from postings to word processing is a bit difficult so please forgive the shortcomings of this summary. I’m just trying to give us a manageable bit of text to go on with. Please bear with me if in my attempt to summarize I have mangled your thoughts. I have tried to keep our lines of inquiry separate but there is inevitable crossover.
Objective Observations:
Insofar as our initial attempts to make fairly objective (can anything be objective?) observations to ensure we have each decided on our basic understanding of what we think the poem says, I find we have noted the following: 58 lines, Times New Roman 12-point font, every word capitalized, short lines, future (will) forms, written on New Year’s Eve at beginning of new millenium, the longest word is 12 letters long, ten sentences, sentences of the following types: simple, compound, complex, and, arguably, compound-complex, analysis of lengths shows the sentences start off relatively short, swell in the middle to a longer length, and then shorten again, boy-man references seem to indicator the narrator is male, “I’ used only once, 19 words dealing with “others”, sheared lines, etc. (look up whole post), 201 whole words with one contraction and one number for a total of 203 words, one formal neither-nor construction, last two lines shorter with greater stress per syllable count, longest sentence heavily left-branching with double prepositional phrase at the beginning, longest sentence begins with “in spite of”, written in English, ? commas, 1 colon, 1 apostrophe, 1 hyphen, 9 periods, everyday words with a few more uncommon.
Restatements:
Retatements: #1: A person who in old age can be of service to others is lucky.
#2: (extracted from a long posting) If you are lucky in your old age, you will serve people generously, ignoring your own ego by being more aware of their needs than your own.
#3: You’ll go very fast to some distant place in order to bring any insignificant thing to help someone.
#4: An example of using a car to perform a service; also, THE GREAT ACORN/PIG DISCUSSION! This issue is so redolent of history, philosophy and love of pigs (and I feel this might be a good time for us all to take a vow not to eat the sweet animals again) that I cannot begin to summarize it so I will just leave it for each poster to enjoy in his/her own way. Let us just say the choice of acorn as something to pick up for someone couldn’t have been bettered! Imagine if he had said, “You will whip down to pick up a bottle of soda water,” or “You will whip down to pick up a rotary sander...”
#5. When you accept your own limitations, you will be happy when you realize failures are a part of life; you will accept the purity of acceptance, lack of guilt. You will find yourself even able to be cheerful about this situation.
#6. Another example using a play on words (thirstily ... desert) to illustrate that not only is the author eager to perform services, he will humbly try to perform such service rummaging through leftovers.
#7. The narrator’s view of himself as having breasts and a gut is referenced to T.S. Eliot’s use of the Tiresias story. Someone notes the layers of meaning that begin to leap out when looking at this line (or talking about acorns). Another person makes the point that, as when most writers write, they are often unaware of where a lot of their ideas and imagery are coming from. (I suspect this is true of all of us, even when we talk, but so much more so for artists!) Leonard Cohen majored in English Literature. I don’t know if he has been a great reader but nevertheless, you can’t be an English Lit major and not have your heart, brain and soul stuffed with other authors, beautiful words, mythology, metaphor, gibberish of all sorts.... and it tends to pop out all over the place. (my comment)
Interpretations:
Does the luck in the first line necessarily mean good luck? Can luck mean other than good luck? How does this correlate with age and death?
Talking about a gut and breasts seems to allow for the narrator to be female as well although the breast reference may point to the sagging pecs of age.
Note on thinking of a poem as part of the cultural landscape. Each word is as important as any other.
Poem written on a night when many people are depressed and have difficulty being jolly with the others wearing their funny hats although an 80-year-old poet thought the poem had a lot of truth in it.
Using capital letters for all the words of life was as if the writer meant to sanctify them. Small words can be connectors to help the bigger words in sentences communicate.
The last two sentences seem to begin a great deal of thought. Does the use of “sir” indicate the author’s interest in the military, maybe politeness, maybe trying to inspire confidence?
My thought here is that we can use politeness when we have scorn and contempt for someone, as we (those of us who in our secret hearts are not always terribly kind) might have for someone who is assuming we are not honest. There is that wonderful definition of a gentleman (or gentlewoman) as someone who never insults anyone unintentionally. This might also be a good place for us to pause and think a bit about how inflection in spoken language can add sur-aspects to basic denotation. Imagine these lines spoken sorrowfully to someone who is existing in a morass of ugliness and suspicion.
I would also like to speculate on the lines “You Are No Longer A Boy Or Even A Man”. What does it mean not to be a man? This statement is interesting in its contrast with being a boy. The boy-man continuum starts us on a train of chronological thought but then the train crashes. Having become a man, if we see this as a statement of chronological being, we are in a state of being that continues until death. How does one stop being a man? The freshness and sweetness of being a boy, that can stop, maybe. The competence and maturity, the responsibility of being a man, maybe. (I don’t mean to say men are not also fresh and sweet!) Can one shrug that off in dedication to a life of service? Do men not serve others? Or is it a reference to the waning/cessation of genital sexuality?
All I ever ask of my students is that they understand what the poem “means” is everything anyone has said, as long as it can be attached to the poem in some, however slight, way. Umberto Eco is good for this: when talking about this matter of “meaning,” he points out that the writer has his/her idea about what it means and the reader has his/her idea about what it means, but you can’t just go hog-wild about this idea of what it means, leading, for example, to such fancies as saying about the poem we are discussing, “Well, I think it’s talking about my aunt’s divorce. That’s what it means to me and my idea is as good as yours (or the author’s). Eco said the text has its own idea about what it means! (Acutally, I can see quite well how this poem might be related to my aunt’s divorce. Bad example. I hope you get my meaning anyway!)
Well, dear friends, I said I would try to do this at a certain point and I have done so, in a rather sloppy way. In a classroom, when a discussion such as this is going on, like great glowing golden balls being juggled in the air, it’s the teacher’s job to be the repository, recapitulate, nudge balls in other directions, and so on. Here we must all be the teachers, from now on, so I am abdicating my responsibility and I’ll just enjoy the discussion from here on out. I wonder how long we can keep this party going?
"I didn't go to the funeral of poetry. I stayed home and watched it on television." Karl Shapiro
Been wondering where you are . Bet you're a trip in the classroom ~ your acorn vs. soda water, et al; your aunt's divorce analogy and conclusion; etc.
When I read your synopses of our commentaries thus far, and came across the shorter sentences ~ to longer sentences ~ to shorter and very brief sentences, I saw a parallel to the stages of our lives, and the perceived energy levels, in terms of involvement, attached to those stages. When you mentioned the waning/cessation of genital sexuality, I saw still another layer, with regard to the literal, male, sexual, physical response; as well as related to those stages and the perceived "capability," therein. These, I'd say, would most likely come under the "unintended" category. I see that the "Or Even A Man" may also be what led to Makera's impression of the "little respect for 'him' as a person."
Or has Leonard divided the male life stages ~ period ~ as Boy/Man/Old Man [equivalent to Non-Man]? I think the perceived virility issue has merit, per one of your suggestions. It's difficult [for me] to imagine that he would consider being of service to others as being emasculating, but I'm open to hearing what else may support this in the poem.
I really like ~ and agree with the possibility, here ~ the speaking of "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" from a position of contempt. I've seen a lot of that very thing in both male/female prisons and other correctional facilities. It also tends to extend to anyone in authority; anyone who has something you want and is, rightfully, "yours;" and/or anyone to whom you feel you must "prove," as you've noted, your own honesty.
Yeah, true poetry is worth to read the original. And I can add something to this. I found some translations of LC’ poems into Russian… What can I say? Maybe if it were my first contact with his lyrics I’d like them… I don’t know… But since it was that case when I read/heard the original before the translation… it seemed to me almost terrible…
Hi Sohbet,
Thanks for the summary! And there are so many themes to think over in it – so many questions!
And – Dear All - now I’d like to say that having clarified – thanks to Elizabeth – the literal meaning of last sentences I find much more irony in this poem… a kind of “heart-ache-like” irony… And now…mmmmm!…..now I love it even much more than before!
Now I’m not ready to write more upon this theme. Maybe later…
TH
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
Regarding the substandard translations of the poems of Leonard in Russian, "Your [next] mission, should you choose to accept it........" will hopefully not be "impossible."
Yes, a lot to think over with Sohbet's distillation.
Even as you say, " 'heart-ache-like' irony," I think of the last line, "No, Sir, I Am Not Lying" not just in terms of, "I didn't come [drive!] all this way to fool ya,' " but also in terms of how in our [U.S.] culture, the old and aging are often not taken seriously, if not outright discounted. The implication of this line [where the need to reaffirm, that one is even telling the truth, is apparently required] could be that the person "man'ing" the Lost And Found is giving the impression with his attitude that the older person is trying to lie their way into a pair of sunglasses [that they, otherwise, maybe couldn't afford?].
So much to these lines. The "No, Sir," could relate to the "Yes, Sir," that precedes it; or, it could relate to the poem, as a whole.
Lizzytysh's comment on the way the "No, Sir" could relate to the preceding "Yes, Sir" or the whole poem opened up an insight for me. If we consider "...But A Sense of Gratitude Enlivens Every Move You Make," in the light of the next two sentences, what could have been a discouraging encounter, I am reminded of precepts I learned when studying Buddhism. I have these written on little cards I keep on my desk. Suddenly they seem so relevant to this poem.
"Be grateful to everyone."
"Always maintain a joyful mind."
"When the world is filled with evil, transform all mishaps into the path of bodhi."
"Always meditate on whatever provokes resentment."
"Don't be swayed by external circumstances."
There are many more, taken from the teachings of Pema Chodron. As we know, Leonard studied Buddhism for many years. I don't know if he still practices, but this is an old saying: Education is what remains when you have forgotten everything you learned.
"I didn't go to the funeral of poetry. I stayed home and watched it on television." Karl Shapiro
This poem is a monologue. Note that it starts mid-line and mid-foot. If you have trouble scanning the meter, count out two and a half feet in your head before you speak and the words will scan correctly. Also line 8 is headless and has a double ending, giving it a complaining tone:
x / x/ x/x/x/(x) You are no longer a boy
x/x//x/(x)/x Or even a man
This line has two double endings (one before the caseur and one at the end) and requires the elision of even .
Also:
Yes Sir, These are The very Gold-rimmed pair
has inverted feet at both the beginning and after the first caesura, and double endings both before the first caesura and at the end of the line, mimicking the impetuosity of a hot-tempered young man.
Leonard seems to take more time discussing the sunglasses. Does it hold more interest for him somehow? Is Leonard in middle age and contemplating the next stage of his own life. Or does he merely focus on this stage because the sunglasses best fulfil his metaphor.
"Also line 8 is headless and has a double ending, giving it a complaining tone:" This comment prompts me to find the terms "headless" and "double ending."
"......mimicking the impetuosity of a hot-tempered young man." This comment prompts me to find the meaning and application of the term "caesura."
"Elision" seems like a word I just oughta know .
I also noticed the focus [no pun intended] on the sunglasses, but had no idea what to make of it. Might it be because they belong to a woman? If they were Rebecca's, they would certainly constitute a project of import.
Of course, I must say that I can't see running errands for loved ones as being, in any way, emasculating. Stages of life seem to be playing a part in this poem, with the boy/man references.
I agree with what you've brought out, Sohbet, about the Buddhist perspective and precepts that you've cited. Each one seems to fit very nicely into the poem, as a whole.
OK, P. 91 ~ "The caesura (usually indicated by the symbol //) is a slight pause within the line. It need not be indicated by punctuation, and it does not affect the metrical count:
Know then thyself,//presume not God to scan;
The proper study of Mankind//is Man. (Pope)"
So, does the first caesura occur between "longer" and "a"?
Does the second caesura occur between "even" and "a"?
Hmmmmm............now I need to find "double endings" and "inverted feet."
It's 11:11 PM ~ this is a little too deep for me at this time. I'll check into it later, but in the meantime, feel free to spell out exactly what you're saying .
I’d like to say now a few words about sunglasses.
Of course, every image/symbol [or, to be precious, “an-image-that-may-be-considered-a-symbol” ] can be examined from the different standpoints, and a great variety of meanings may be “elicited” even from the simplest ones. But it seems to me in this case the simplest way to interpret would be the most correct one.
Talking about an acorn we could connect it with a proverb according to which “Great oaks from little acorns grow” and thus regard that image as a symbol of something seemingly insignificant and yet extremely important for someone. But sunglasses are… just sunglasses I believe.
We have here a quite ordinary item. It’s useful but isn’t “irreplaceable”. Nobody regret too much having lost it and nobody will look for it with a great zeal. [There are a lot of sunglasses “At A Lost And Found In Las Vegas” – “he” has to sift through them. And why? – For that very reason. Having lost them everyone can buy the new ones everywhere.]
And, on the other hand, “he” exerts every effort in order to bring that item. [“Just A Few Hours Across The Desert”]. We can see here again the same lack of correspondence, imbalance, disproportion as in case of a “journey” for an acorn. And there’s even greater disproportion, maybe “monstrous” one, here – when “the desert” is mentioned the forty days of temptations and torments that Christ spent there can be recalled. And now this disproportion can’t be considered a seeming one.
And I think those sunglasses are so necessary here just in order to emphasize that disproportion.
How can we interpret the meaning of this disproportion itself?
There’s one simple way:
You want, you are ready and maybe even still can do so much, you have so much to give… but all “someone else” wants you to do now is to bring her sunglasses…
And you “embrace thirstily” even such a “commitment” – it’s still more than nothing…
But who is that “she”? A woman? Or is it a symbol of life itself? – just like the sunglasses may be nothing but a symbol of every trifle.
“Slipping beauty”… Slipping life…
And at the same time the disproportions of such a kind is the essence of the comical. Isn’t it funny – to go to the other end of the world for some trashy sunglasses!
So this image is necessary also in order to reveal the funny side of a situation – of this very situation as well as of “Life Of Errands” in general. [I think “the life of errands” is still something different from “life for the others”; it can scarcely be full of great performances.]
But what does it mean to find comical aspects of that what can be perceived as tragic, to laugh at it? Actually, it means to accept it.
Thus we can see those sunglasses were quite meaningful.
[But I must say there may be other interpretations of that disproportion. For example, it may denote every little thing one has to do when he’s old requires great efforts.
Also it may mean that person became wise enough to understand whatever he were able to do for the others is not too much. So he doesn’t make any “show”. And the name “A Life Of Errands” may refer to the same.]
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
Also I’d like to thank everyone who takes part in this discussion.
Lizzy, thanks for the commentaries to the “Yes, Sir”, “No, Sir”. I didn’t think about that meaning you’ve mentioned [that old people have to prove they don’t lie]. And it’s more than appropriate here. In fact, such an attitude to them isn’t an “exclusive” characteristic of U.S. culture…
Also thanks for the commentaries on the terms which Vesuvius used!
Vesuvius, it’s interesting to analyze the form of the poem itself and what it may mean! And thanks for drawing attention to the sunglasses.
Sohbet, those were great quotations you’ve posted here! They do have something in common with the poem. And I’d like to ask you, did you study the teachings of some concrete school? Or “Buddhism in general”?
TH
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
Actually, I don't envy your trying Shakespeare in English; some of the old English takes 'extra' translation. However, as you have rightly pointed out with Pushkin, they lose so much of their original 'music' and 'personality' when translated into another language -- it's worth it to read the original. 
~ your acorn vs. soda water, et al; your aunt's divorce analogy and conclusion; etc. 
