Book of Mercy #27-28

[DBCohen]

Joe,

OK, I get it now. I am familiar with some of Frye’s ideas, but never actually read his work, unfortunately. I wonder, when he creates this picture, does he speak as a scholar of culture, describing his findings in what people may imagine, or as a believer, describing what he regards as a reality, or a metaphor for reality? Thanks.

[lazariuk]

I think there has to be something to these numbers. His offering went
as far as 26 but then there were 27 angels. One angel more.

I sometimes confuse the word angel with angle.

Here is something that you can try at home. If you take any structure and measure the angels, I mean angles, around all the verticies they will always have a sum that can be divided by 720. It is true for all structures: tetrahedron, octahedron, icosahedron, cube: anything.

That 720 degrees is the amount of degrees of all the angles in a tetrahedron.
The tetrahedron is what can be formed using the two triangles from the cover of "Book of Mercy" 720 degrees

Once you have tested that you can also see that every structure will always be one tetrahedron less than cyclic unity. Cyclic unity is 360 degrees and so two times cyclic unity is 720 degrees which is a tetrahedron.
So to figure out all the angles around all the verticies all you have to do is multiply the number of verticies by 360 and then subtract our friend the tetrahedron (720) and you will have your answer.
"You can add up the parts and you won't have the sum" You will always be 1 tetrahedron short.
720 degrees
This might sound strange but at least it is something that can be tested to see if it is wrong.
The finite is one tetrahedron short of infinity. That to me is good news.

[Joe Way]

Doron,

Again, I don't wish to belabor this as I am with you in regard to trying to determine the meaning that the words that LC has written on the page without bringing too much extraneous material in to confuse the matter. Frye is perhaps the foremost literary critic of his era and as a Canadian, I believe that he has some structural theories that can help us (also he is one of my personal heroes, along with Leon Edel, another Canadian, who introduced Leonard at the 92nd Street Y in New York early in his literary career).

To bring this back to BoM, in #27 the narrator is writing from the perspective somewhere between the garden & the cave or between the unfallen world and the fallen world. The language is rich with imagery from this realm..."saved in the wilderness and given shade in the desert"..."beyond the nation's sweetest dream of itself"..."you will wander through yourselves from generation to generation." But the narrator is quick to point out that we "rule over chaos" and "hoist your flags with no authority."

In #28, it is clear that the narrator is writing from the perspective of someone in the lower realms, between the cave and the furnace "in this aimless place," someone who "terry(s) in hell." Like in the higher realms, the language becomes more intense, more a cry or an appeal to whomever has the "authority" over these places. Again, this is quite striking even from a psychological perspective as who among us hasn't been in the depressive depths of the soul at one time or another. Wouldn't we cry out that we would allow even anger to disperse the conditions that create such pain.

One other note-the word "gate" is generally assumed to be a device that allows something to enter, but it can also mean a device that keeps one safe and protected. I believe that it is used in one of the psalms in this sense but I can't put my finger on it just now. From memory, I believe that the line goes something like, "I am the gate that keeps you safe from harm."

Joe

[mat james]

I can't put my finger on it just now. From memory, I believe that the line goes something like, "I am the gate that keeps you safe from harm."

Joe Way
Try this link Joe to find your quote.
http://biblos.com/search.htm?cx=0012244 ... Search#940

But it sounds more like the new testament, John 10:

7 Jesus emphasized, "I can guarantee this truth: I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who came before I did were thieves or robbers. However, the sheep didn't respond to them. 9 I am the gate. Those who enter the sheep pen through me will be saved. They will go in and out of the sheep pen and find food. 10 A thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But I came so that my sheep will have life and so that they will have everything they need.

http://gwt.scripturetext.com/john/10.htm
Or find other biblical references to "Gate" via a concordance below:
http://bibletab.com/g/gate.htm

Matj

[DBCohen]

Joe,

Thanks for these very illuminating explanations. I can see the relevancy of Frye’s ideas to our discussion.

I believe Mat is correct about the source of the quotation you had in mind being in the New Testament rather than the Psalms.

Merry Christmas to those celebrating it, and a Happy New Year to one and all. May we have a peaceful year and a fruitful discussion.

Doron

[lazariuk]

Book of Mercy 28

Well I finally took a little peek. It reminded me of when I was a little kid and before I learned what were the proper ways to judge people. In those days I would often judge people by the sound of their voice. If I liked the sound of their voice I would find myself moving in their direction.

The voice in 28 sounds like the voice of the Isaiah which begins at Isaiah 40. The voice to bring comfort to the people. I always liked that voice, as a matter of fact it was the voice that got me interested in reading the Bible.

In BoM 27 I tried to imagine who the real Leonard Cohen, the actual person of flesh and blood would ever address with those words. I tried to imagine him saying it to his new grandchild and meaning his grandchild and all the other children who were just being born. I imagined him yelling "You are all thieves of holiness, the land is not yours" It didn't work in my mind and so i went on to other people, the farmers and tradespeople etc. and I never really found anyone who I felt to be completely deserving of that kind of anger. What was left was the stuff that doesn't really exist, the stuff like nations, churches, gangs, clubs, cliques, corporations, the stuff that appears to take on a life of their own but often mostly serves to keep people separated. The anger he had for all that stuff seems to come from each one of us including those caught in it activity. This anger is destroying all those things and the nations spill their precious cargo. The cargo is the people.
The people are left without what they once had for a home. It is there where the heart to love will come but like a refugee.

In BoM 28 I can't imagine a person that Leonard couldn't be addressing. I find it very easy to imagine him sitting with his grandchild and gently whispering into his ear "Let me study your ways that are just beyond the hope of evil" It may get a little more difficult to imagine as we move further away from an innocent baby but never impossible. I can see him with an Arab woman watching her make couscous and saying "Let me study your ways that are just beyond the hope of evil" and studying how she is making couscous to feed the family she loves. I think that everyone has ways that are just beyond the hope of evil and everyone can teach us something.
There now seems to be a unity in the writing and also we can see that anything he can say to a person he can also say to God in a way that other people can relate to. I'll get personal.
I might be saying in other words "Let me study your ways that are just beyond the hope of evil" when I am saying to someone "Show me how to make Figgy Pudding" or trying to learn another way to tie my shoes. I think I am also saying "Let me study your ways that are just beyond the hope of evil" when I look at the Universe and just study how it seems to be designed, when I notice that to enclose space you need to have at least four sides. I think something like that is just beyond the hope of evil for the simple reason that if it is wrong it can be proven that it is wrong. These things do not separate us. It is just as true for Christians as it is for Muslims.

In Isaiah 41 begins with "Keep silent, O you islands; and let the people renew their strength, let them come near. it is saying that that which separates us should be silent, the stuff that was once our ground, and think of the people.

[Joe Way]

Mat and Doron,

Thank you for pointing me to the correct source-you are indeed right that it is a New Testament reference-sorry for the confusion.

Jack,

Your discussion of #27 & #28 is very interesting. Do you think that "hope of evil" is meant in the sense of "attraction to evil" or do you think that it has a different connotation?

Joe

P. S. Happy Holidays to all who celebrate!

[lazariuk]

Your discussion of #27 & #28 is very interesting. Do you think that "hope of evil" is meant in the sense of "attraction to evil" or do you think that it has a different connotation?

I think that evil has about as much hope as those nations. The stuff of the mist. The stuff that will completely be gone with sufficent light, sufficent light might just be the light from the land of plenty should it ever shine on the truth.
When Leonard says "Seize my heart out of its fantasy" I think he is wanting to continue being returned to the everyday where there are real things and people to be touched and kissed.
Everything worth seeing is right in front of our eyes and the secrets worth knowing will unfold with our encountering others and not in our books and doctrins etc.

[lazariuk]

and I think that 28 wears Christmas well. I remember one Easter that Leonard posted a poem to the forum called "It seemed a better way" . It must have been one he studied.

[Joe Way]

Jack wrote:

When Leonard says "Seize my heart out of its fantasy" I think he is wanting to continue being returned to the everyday where there are real things and people to be touched and kissed.
Everything worth seeing is right in front of our eyes and the secrets worth knowing will unfold with our encountering others and not in our books and doctrins etc.

Dear Jack, I hope that you don't mean that our endeavors here are in vain? Words themselves are holy and the whole process of determining meaning is crucial to our lives. Picture young Leonard, seated next to his maternal grandfather reading to him over and over from Isaiah in Hebrew and explaining the nuances of the meaning.

Even though, I use the tools of literary criticism I hope that this opens a window or door to understanding to more fully appreciate the beauty that has been given to us. Here we are, a vagrant, dispersed, but still pilgrim people, discussing this work across several continents and many time zones in an effort to bring some commonality of meaning not only to the work but to our lives. What could be more symbolically touching than this careful process of explicating Leonard's words.

I asked you about your thoughts about "the hope of evil." I heard a story recently about an airline trip where Martin Luther King, Jr. sat next to two fellows and discussed the impact of the acceptance of the black race with the white. One of the fellows told Dr. King how much he admired his work while the other fellow kept silent. Toward the end of the trip, the other fellow in an accent that indicated that he was from the southern part of the U. S. said, "I've grown to accept most of the changes in the world, and my children can accept all of them, but my father will never accept this." Dr. King, said, "Well, your father's beliefs are what they must be." The person who relayed this story to me told it in such a fashion as to indicate how Dr. King kept his enemies close and respected them for what their beliefs were in this very flawed world.

Tonight, Anne & I sang in our church choir (I had the pleasure of being seated next to a very pretty young violinist with Anne seated in the pew ahead of me). There are certain times that one will always return to in dreams and memory and the music was beautiful tonight. I'm reading a novel by Jim Harrison (Returning To Earth) right now and the main character, Donald, who is a half breed Indian, is dying of Lou Gerhig's disease. He has gone up into Ontario earlier and stayed outside and fasted for three days in a remote area and whenever someone asks him about it, he says, "Well, that's getting too close to my religion and I don't want to talk about it." Anne is a nurse and has a heavy schedule over the holidays. I'll always remember when we had a baby in her Neonatal unit and the kindnesses that were given to us. Anne is a wonderful person and those of you who've met her know this. I only mention this because, the liturgy that we experienced tonight helped give her the strength to carry on-and it wasn't so much those things that "religious" people say, but the music, the friendship, the deep appreciation of hundreds of small kindnesses that are given to us daily, but somehow all symbolized in the rich violins, the mix of the tenor and basses, the priest's voice, the lovely solo's done by a couple of beautiful sopranos, the gentle manner of our bass player who also handles the sound system so well, the fearlessness of our piano player, Bonnie, who has battled cancer for the last couple of years, the tears that our director shed while she said, "You sound so beautiful, but I am pregnant," and our friends who usher in and welcome many strangers who attend on a holiday. All these actions are predicated on a line from Isaiah, "The people who walk in darkness shall see a great light." And it really doesn't matter if one thinks the Messiah has arrived or is still coming.

Happy Holidays to you.

Joe

[lazariuk]

Dear Joe

Dear Jack, I hope that you don't mean that our endeavors here are in vain?

Yes, that is pretty much what I was meaning. I am a little constricted by it being a closed ended question.

Words themselves are holy and the whole process of determining meaning is crucial to our lives.

Joe do you really think that is true? both parts? either part? Do you have any way of knowing if that is true?

With the exception of a very small few I think it is a fantasy to even think that words in themselves have meaning, never mind them being holy.

Is it holy when people use words more to conceal than reveal? Is it holy when people use words to keep people from reaching out to them? from touching them? from getting to know the secrets of their hearts? haven't you ever noticed that that is what is usually happening.

Picture young Leonard, seated next to his maternal grandfather reading to him over and over from Isaiah in Hebrew and explaining the nuances of the meaning.

It is easy to picture and just as easy to see that his grandfather's life and the way he lived it said a lot more about Isaiah's message than the words he heard from his grandfather. When Leonard described the scene It was the person he was describing and not the effect of the words. It was the way his grandfather read them.

I am glad that you wrote what you did Joe for a personal reason. It reminded me of a portrait that I have of a young Aboriginal woman. I got it over 35 years ago and would place it on my wall. There was something about it. Last night I considered that it the only picture that I have on my wall in my room. I have a friend who very much likes a lot of the pictures that I have and one time went to the trouble of having them framed for me. I never put them on my wall though and they sit in a closet.
Last night I thought that to the person who the portrait represents for me I could use Dylan's words to say

"You've never learned to read or write
There's no books upon your shelf
Your passion knows no limit
You're voice is like a meadowlark
and your heart is like the ocean
so mysterious and dark."

I like books and often wish for the people around me to leave so that I can get back to them and the company that they provide. Yet I know that there is nothing in them that is adequate preparation for encounter with mystery.

Having said the above I do want you to know that I also read the rest of what you wrote and that I am aware that it is saying a lot of the same things that I am trying to say.

[Manna]

Haven't read everything, time-limited, less time for this during holidaze, but...

Is it holy when people use words more to conceal than reveal? Is it holy when people use words to keep people from reaching out to them? from touching them? from getting to know the secrets of their hearts? haven't you ever noticed that that is what is usually happening.

You're not talking about words themselves here, you're talking about how people use them. Even The Devil could use the Bible to prove his points. I don't know if words are holy. They may be. Words themselves, regardless of how they're used.

btw, I would love to go back to the beginning with you.

[lazariuk]

btw, I would love to go back to the beginning with you.

I got what I wanted for Christmas. Thanks Manna

[Joe Way]

Yes, that is pretty much what I was meaning. I am a little constricted by it being a closed ended question.

Jack, I think that I must have accidentally insulted you. I suppose that it was my comment to Doron that I wanted to stay on track as it were. I'm sorry if you thought this was directed at you, it wasn't. I brought Northrop Frye's words here and I thought that I needed to explain how I believed that this was germane to our discussion.

Words themselves are holy and the whole process of determining meaning is crucial to our lives.

Joe do you really think that is true? both parts? either part? Do you have any way of knowing if that is true?

Yes & yes. Do I know that it is true? "In the beginning was the word (logos) and the word was made flesh." This doesn't mean that the apple became an orange. The "word" is so crucial to our existence that it defines the difference between us and all the other animals.

Jack, what I wrote last night was heartfelt, but it really didn't advance our understanding of the work, "Book of Mercy" that Leonard wrote. That, ultimately is what this thread, this discussion is about. I know that you feel deeply about so much that Leonard has written and that you have many stories about how this has affected your life and in turn, you feel that these stories give meaning to us. Many people here enjoy your take on this. Please don't diminish those of us who are trying to understand Leonard's meanings and intentions in writing this.

Joe

[lazariuk]

Jack, I think that I must have accidentally insulted you.

I doubt it. I think of you as that kind friendly guy who I sat beside drinking with in Toronto. I think of you as that person with the lovely wife and as the person who seemed to like me enough to give me some extra tickets that he had for the Cohen and Glass interview. I think of you as that person who tells me whenever he thinks I might have written anything worthwhile. You are that guy, are you not? Maybe if I looked hard enough and with some help I could find some place where you insulted me. I am too lazy to do so. Any chance that you can see what I have written in such a way that it doesn't seem like I am responding to an insult?

Jack, what I wrote last night was heartfelt, but it really didn't advance our understanding of the work, "Book of Mercy" that Leonard wrote. That, ultimately is what this thread, this discussion is about.

Ultimately I think the book is about the fundamental opening of the heart and fortunately any other activity is in vain.

Please don't diminish those of us who are trying to understand Leonard's meanings and intentions in writing this.

The fact that it might seem like I do that is one of the reasons that I am going to take the opportunity of beginning again. I am interested in seeing what mistakes I might have made about how I look at Leonard's book, but more than that, I am interested in taking a look to see what mistakes I made in how I behaved while doing so. Without even going back I can see a few from here, it should be interesting.