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Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:24 pm
by Kush
"Promised Land" is off the charts good, i.m.o. Passion is generally easier for
younger folks to come by and it need not die back with additional years.
And Springsteen and the others had it, fully charged. I've got mixed feelings
about seeing it diminished and wonder how people like Springsteen are going
to bring passion into the aging experience, while staying true to the spirit of
rock. Passion based on physicality and exuberance, may, itself, have to be
transformed into something else. I forgot just how powerful Springsteen
was in those days. Not writing him off, but marveling at the combination
of youth and poetic talent that converged in an incredible way.
Hi Steven,

I think what I miss a little (apart from producer issues) is the slight cockiness that the young Springsteen had in his writing, performance and attitude. And I dont mean that in a negative way. The natural cockiness of youth that let his personality show through unfettered in his writing and his attitude. Before age and experience made him mellow and wise and to some extent lost its capacity to surprise us. His earlier writing was perhaps not "wise" (in the sense of a man of age and experience) but very very real. Like the following....I cant see him writing lines of this quality recently....now its more disguised and even artful.

But your eyes go blind and your blood runs cold
Sometimes I feel so weak I just want to explode
Explode and tear this whole town apart
Take a knife and cut this pain from my heart
Find somebody itching for something to start

...yeah Promised Land is sure off the charts!!! The physicality of his music and poetry is surely conveyed in this 1985 performance. If I just saw his physical performance and heard the music without him singing a single word (but I had the written words in front of me or knew them) it would convey as much as him actually singing it. Its poetry wrapped in music wrapped in theater! At the same time the words are only half alive on paper - without the band and the exuberant performance on stage.

and from Badlands...

Poor man wanna be rich,
rich man wanna be king
And a king ain't satisfied
till he rules everything
I wanna go out tonight,
I wanna find out what I got


I wanna find one face
that ain't looking through me
I wanna find one place,
I wanna spit in the face of these badlands

...its the italized lines that makes these verses so real.

He has some great lyrics in his recent albums but they have the "wisdom of age and experience" if you know what I mean. Nuanced. But of course it only natural.
Passion based on physicality and exuberance, may, itself, have to be
transformed into something else.
Touche'. I think of the great and aging blues masters and somehow they still manage to convey passion but without being at all youthful. Blues conveys passion that remain or comes anew with age and experience. I've seen it sometimes in Springsteen - as in the Live NYC versionof Born in the USA or the live version of Soul Driver that Diane put up a link to earlier.

p.s. edited a few times for additions.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:47 pm
by Steven
Hi Kush,

Nicely said. My brevity only means agreement with just about all of your comments
in your post. About a turning off of the music and watching the particular performance,
there'd be that "theater" you spoke of (or a "theatre" for Diane and others
across the pond :D ), and also a lot of visceraly arising honesty that
supercharges the performance. Not that you said otherwise. Blues
is largely a medium of lament and has a different charge than
non-blues laced rock. Good analogy, Kush. The lyrics you cited
are among those I consider to be Springsteen's very best.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:59 am
by Kush
yeah visceral supercharged (or rather turbocharged) honesty! Thats good.
Actually "theatre" is used here more often than you'd think....and also "centre".

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:16 am
by Steven
Hi Kush,

I happened to mention the links to a couple of people tonight. It didn't take more
than a couple of seconds for them to bring up the aging/energy thing. Probably
about now one of them is enjoying the concert footage. I've noticed "theatre"
used here in the U.S., not infrequently. Never did notice the variant spelling of "centre" here, though. Moving off topic, I heard something about Springsteen going to be at an upcoming Pete Seeger birthday event. Nice to know that Seeger is getting an abundance of respect; he's earned it.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:21 pm
by Kush
Yes unless I am mistaken there is no DVD out from that period when he was at his peak popularity. The performances from that time were truly supercharged.I also saw Badlands and Born in the USA performances on youtube - this would be a really good DVD to have.
I have sometimes seen businesses use "theatre" (as in 'cinema arts theatre') and just the other day I noticed a sign on a store with "[something] Centre" - I cannot recall what kind of store it was but the "centre" caught my attention. I figure business owners think that the Theatre or Centre just sounds more sophisticated and will attract customers or in some way distinguish it from other businesses of a similar nature.

Re' Pete Seeger yes I saw the announcement on the Springsteen website. It is a really impressive lineup (Springsteen, Kristofferson, Dave Matthews, Joan Baez, Arlo Guthrie, Emmylou Harris, Judy Collins etc etc) and all the money will go to the envirinmental foundation Pete Seeger started Hudson River Sloop Clearwater.

http://www.seeger90.com/

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:43 pm
by Steven
Hi Kush,

I also don't think that there is such a DVD. Perhaps his people will put one together;
maybe an audio/video equivalent of Dylan's "bootleg" series, but for earlier days
Springsteen. I agree with you on what the reason probably is for the use of the variant
spellings. I wasn't aware of the lineup for the Seeger show; a spectacular
assemblage of performers. Btw, I've a close connection to someone who
was a neighbor/friend of Woody Guthrie (Arlo's dad, of course). He knew
Arlo when Arlo was a kid. I really like to hear him tell first-hand stories about Woody.
Seems nobody else in his orbit of people appreciates the living history that this guy is,
as per Woody. Seeger's "Clearwater" sloop, brought many people right onto the waters of the Hudson River. It really connected them to the river -- with all the problems the Hudson had when the boat was first launched and the potential for cleanup that was possible, as I'm sure
you know. The river is now a heck of a lot cleaner for this.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:23 am
by Diane
I'm lovin the conversation between you two about the transformation of 'passion' in an aging Bruce.

And "viscerally arising honesty" is a perfect phrase for many of Bruce's live performances, Steven. I really like that.

Kush wrote:His earlier writing was perhaps not "wise" (in the sense of a man of age and experience) but very very real. Like the following....I cant see him writing lines of this quality recently....now its more disguised and even artful.

But your eyes go blind and your blood runs cold
Sometimes I feel so weak I just want to explode
Explode and tear this whole town apart
Take a knife and cut this pain from my heart
Find somebody itching for something to start

Just about every song on Darkness has that searing darkness. It was the anger of a young man about the weight of his family's unresolved pain that was projected onto him; their 'lies':

Daddy worked his whole life for nothing but the pain
Now he walks these empty rooms looking for something to blame
You inherit the sins, you inherit the flames
Adam raised a Cain


and

End of the day, factory whistle cries,
Men walk through these gates with death in their eyes.
And you just better believe, boy,
somebody's gonna get hurt tonight


and

I'm wandering, a loser down these tracks
I'm dying, but girl I can't go back
'Cause in the darkness I hear somebody call my name
And when you realize how they tricked you this time
And it's all lies but I'm strung out on the wire
In these streets of fire

I live now, only with strangers
I talk to only strangers
I walk with angels that have no place
Streets of fire


and

You hear the voices telling you not to go,
They made their choices and they'll never know,
What it means to steal, to cheat, to lie,
What it's like to live and die.


and etc.

...all sandwiched between Badlands and Darkness the song. There is an incredible drive there, to throw off the old and find something real. I too love that old Bruce screaming for freedom. Fast forward to Bruce these days and he has dealt with most of his demons that he pursued with youth's passion. But even when the past is put to rest, the present hits you with stuff - other people's tragedies, aging, death of loved ones, deciding what's real after all, and etcetera. WoaD seems a bit mild in comparison, but it does contain a lot of wisdom, conveyed in simple terms, as is the way of wise old men. Not that Bruce is an old man. But he's not young anymore either. Dammit.

I miss the wild poetry of the early albums. But he still delivers the old songs, even though they are not what he would write these days. For You:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCY1_msUYPQ

Princess cards she sends me with her regards
barroom eyes shine vacancy, to see her you gotta look hard
Wounded deep in battle, I stand stuffed like some soldier undaunted
To her Cheshire smile. I'll stand on file, she's all I ever wanted.
But you let your blue walls get in the way of these facts
honey, get your carpetbaggers off my back
you wouldn't even give me time to cover my tracks.
You said, "Here's your mirror and your ball and jacks".
But they're not what I came for, and I'm sure you see that too
I came for you, for you, I came for you, but you did not need my urgency
I came for you, for you, I came for you, but your life was one long emergency
and your cloud line urges me, and my electric surges free

Crawl into my ambulance, your pulse is getting weak
reveal yourself all now to me girl while you've got the strength to speak
Cause they're waiting for you at Bellevue with their oxygen masks
But I could give it all to you now if only you could ask.
And don't call for your surgeon even he says it's too late
It's not your lungs this time, it's your heart that holds your fate
Don't give me money, honey, I don't want it back
you and your pony face and your union jack
well take your local joker and teach him how to act
I swear I was never that way even when I really cracked
Didn't you think I knew that you were born with the power of a locomotive
able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?
And your Chelsea suicide with no apparent motive
you could laugh and cry in a single sound.

And your strength is devastating in the face of all these odds
Remember how I kept you waiting when it was my turn to be the god?

You were not quite half so proud when I found you broken on the beach
Remember how I poured salt on your tongue and hung just out of reach
And the band they played the homecoming theme as I caressed your cheek
That ragged, jagged melody she still clings to me like a leech.
But that medal you wore on your chest always got in the way
like a little girl with a trophy so soft to buy her way
We were both hitchhikers but you had your ear tuned to the roar
of some metal-tempered engine on an alien, distant shore
So you, left to find a better reason than the one we were living for
and it's not that nursery mouth I came back for
It's not the way you're stretched out on the floor
cause I've broken all your windows and I've rammed through all your doors
And who am I to ask you to lick my sores?
And you should know that's true...
I came for you, for you, I came for you, but you did not need my urgency
I came for you, for you, I came for you, but your life was one long emergency
and your cloud line urges me, and my electric surges free


And we still forgive him for not writing stuff like that anymore, because he did write that stuff, and, really, because we have to grow older too, whether we want to or not. Sometimes I don't mind, sometimes I do.

Back to catching up:


That is a brilliant video from Barcelona. There is a deliberate 'eastern' feel to this song which adds to its intensity, particularly live. All the expressions that pass across his face during this song are compelling, and with the sweat on his face complementing the blood and the tears in the song.
Diane....most sounds in the E Street Band and the way they play it is quite aggressive sort of in-your-face. Not all the time but a majority of the time. The guitars, sax, drums, even the late great Phantom Dan. Soozie's violin playing is more laid back and offers a contrast. Roy Bittan is the bridge and Gary Tallent the foundation.


Yep, Soozie’s violin is very sweet, adds a gentle haunting sound. I like the way you describe the band, who meld effortlessly after all these years together. I wouldn’t call the sound aggressive though, even when Steve or Nils and Max are going full tilt. Vivid is what I’d call it, maybe. I like music to be fairly intense to hold my attention. Life itself burns doesn’t it. And within that there are many subtleties, all the way down to faint whispers. Bruce and the band portray all that. In this song, some of the ‘whispers’ are in the violin, and the bells of Clarence’s tambourine, and in Patti’s vocals. And in parts of the lyrics. Or between the lines, or I don't know where. It's just 'all' there.
Found this old video of Springsteen & E street from 1985 (Paris) of Out in the Street and many more. Look at Patti go...she dont move her body so brave and so free anymore, but this is a fine memory to remember. But then she is 56 (and hardly looks it actually). She dont smile so free anymore either though...that can't hurt!
Yes Patti did used to be a bit more lively on-stage. But I think generally it's just not in her nature to be flamboyant, and that's OK, really. There's video of Tougher than the Rest on you tube which has concert footage of Bruce and Patti on the Tunnel of Love Tour, where you can see the sparks flying between the two of them. (I can't get the video but I'm pretty sure it's the one with 1,241,389 views.)

One thing that strikes me about Patti and Bruce is that the only song he has ever written obviously about her (well, before this most recent album anyhow), is the risqué Red Headed Woman,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfPZQBWa5k.
(There is another vid. somewhere on youtube in which Bruce explains in detail in the intro what this song is about, as if it were not clear enough but he does have quite a devilish side to him 8) .)

You might think Patti would have preferred a romantic song dedicated to her, but the fact that she allowed him to publish this song is testament to the amount of trust there must be in their relationship. And he is saying, 'no woman does it for me like Patti' which is a pretty huge compliment. I have been listening to the one album I have of hers - Rumble Doll - while I write this post. I listen to relatively few female artists so finding a good album is always a bonus. She has an edge to her voice for sure. Love's Glory is my current favourite song.

More later.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:42 pm
by Diane
from Badlands...

Poor man wanna be rich,
rich man wanna be king
And a king ain't satisfied
till he rules everything
I wanna go out tonight,
I wanna find out what I got


I wanna find one face
that ain't looking through me
I wanna find one place,
I wanna spit in the face of these badlands

...its the italized lines that makes these verses so real.
And also:

Badlands, you gotta live it everyday
Let the broken hearts stand
As the price you've gotta pay

We'll keep pushin' till it's understood
and these badlands start treating us good

Bruce used to talk a lot about “the price you pay” for having what you want. It’s in many of his songs, from the song of that name in The River album (you can’t walk away from the price you pay used to be a line that strongly resonated with me), back to I’ll be there on time and I’ll pay the cost in Darkness, to Oh girl that feeling of safety you prize/Well it comes at a hard hard price/You can't shut off the risk and the pain/Without losin' the love that remains,
from Human Touch, and, I now realise, all the way through to the present:

I have waited at your side
I've counted the tears you've cried
But to win darling we must pay
So don't hide your heart away


I imagine the idea of ‘paying the price for your sins’ originates in his Catholic background, but it is a universally applicable concept, just couched in different words according to religion/culture.

Steven wrote:
Passion based on physicality and exuberance, may, itself, have to be
transformed into something else.
Kush wrote:
Touche'. I think of the great and aging blues masters and somehow they still manage to convey passion but without being at all youthful. Blues conveys passion that remain or comes anew with age and experience. I've seen it sometimes in Springsteen - as in the Live NYC versionof Born in the USA or the live version of Soul Driver that Diane put up a link to earlier.
Yes, and Leonard Cohen singing Hallelujah with such passion on his Tour is another powerful example.

I think age inclines you to be more passionate about some things. For example – when you are young, life stretches off so far into the distance it seems to be infinite. When you are not-so-young you realise that life is finite, and its exquisiteness increases. The thing in you that made me ache has gone to stay. And soon everything that makes me ache will be gone to stay. Maybe too, 'passion' has less of a component of excitement (and anger), and more of the tender emotions of sadness and joy, with the passing of the years. Which is just another way of saying what you both said.
Well 1985 was when I first saw them too....although not in Pareee!!
Moi aussi, et aussi pas à Paris. Je voudrais voir Springsteen à Paris. Sur la vidéo ou en réalité. Re. the Paris show 1985: I saw reference to a video called Breathless in Paris, on youtube. There are plenty of bootlegs and videos and this that and the other ‘sessions’ of Bruce out there that I have become aware of since the internet. And I still don’t even have all of the official albums, but it seems not to matter too much to me. Youtube has plenty of live clips, and in nice bite size chunks.
BTW I have noted your earlier mention of The Big Muddy from the Lucky Town CD. I dont have either of the double release albums (Human Touch) but perhaps its time for me to get them 17 years after their release. I'll check it out on youtube.


I now realise, 17 years after its release, that Lucky Town is really quite a good album. Here's The Big Muddy, live, although in this case I think I prefer the studio version (also available on youtube):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qHt4Wxrrv0

How beautiful the river flows and the birds they sing
But you and I we're messier things
There ain't no one leavin' this world buddy
Without their shirttail dirty
Or their hands bloody

Waist deep in the big muddy
Waist deep in the big muddy
You start on higher ground but end up somehow crawlin'
Waist deep in the big muddy


Brings things nicely back around to Pete Seeger, whom you were talking about when I jumped back in.

Some vid.s still to watch. More later.

ps I still wanna be wasted in The Big Muddy.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:32 pm
by Kush
wow..thats a whole lotta Springsteen you got out of your system. :)

For now I'll just say your first post got me listening to Darkness at the Edge of Town again....I'd forgotten about all the other great songs in there...Factory, Streets of Fire, Candy's Room, Adam Raised a Cain....
Moi aussi, et aussi pas à Paris. Je voudrais voir Springsteen à Paris. Sur la vidéo ou en réalité.
say what?


Steven...nice story re' the connection to Arlo/Woody Guthrie. I knew about the Clearwater Sloop but probably did not appreciate its importance or its role in cleaning up the Hudson river.

p.s.
You might think Patti would have preferred a romantic song dedicated to her
Its funny when I think of some of the famous songs written about specific women (atleast the ones we talk about sometimes)- Suzanne, So Long Marianne, Sara (Bob Dylan) - the only one that Springsteen writes of his wife he talks about what she's got waiting underneath her tight skirt. But I think Surprise Surprise from the new album is also about Patti. Its too obvious.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:30 am
by Diane
Moi aussi, et aussi pas à Paris. Je voudrais voir Springsteen à Paris. Sur la vidéo ou en réalité.
say what?
I don’t know – it was you who started talking French!

Well I am too tired for further ramblings tonight.

Bonne nuit.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:10 pm
by Kush
You hear the voices telling you not to go,
They made their choices and they'll never know,
What it means to steal, to cheat, to lie,
What it's like to live and die.
Diane....I really like the lines you quoted above from Prove it all night but its with the preceding two lines that puts it into context for me.
Baby, tie your hair back in a long white bow,
Meet me in the fields out behind the dynamo,
You hear the voices telling you not to go,
They made their choices and they'll never know,
What it means to steal, to cheat, to lie,
What it's like to live and die.
He captures the desperation of youth in certain situations whether his own or somebody elses. The protagonist is almost a working class Dickensian character.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:41 pm
by Steven
Hi Diane and Kush,

"Just about every song on Darkness has that searing darkness. It was the anger of a young man about the weight of his family's unresolved pain that was projected onto him; their 'lies':"
-- And, verily, he broke the mold. The inheriting of the sins, a biblically established
normality (really abnormal/dysfunctional) path of intergenerational transmission,
"The sins of the fathers...," stopped with him... a welcome new mold for
him to be setting and a model for others to take inspiration from, in this regard.

"...all sandwiched between Badlands and Darkness the song. There is an incredible drive there, to throw off the old and find something real."
-- Yes. He began with an acknowledgement of what was present reality and found
the means to change it (in his life).

Had a feeling that "Hallelujah" was background for us as relating to an example
of passion not dissipating with aging of a peformer. "Closing Time," isn't a
"sleeper" either. :) Haven't yet watched all the latest video links in recent posts.
Hope to get to them within the next week or so.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:48 pm
by Kush
"Just about every song on Darkness has that searing darkness. It was the anger of a young man about the weight of his family's unresolved pain that was projected onto him; their 'lies':"
yeah...he never had a great relationship with his father but I think he later said that he had made his peace with his father and had regretted the lost time and wished he had made a greater effort to understand his father. he projects his conflicted feelings in some of the songs...
Daddy worked his whole life for nothing but the pain
Now he walks these empty rooms looking for something to blame
You inherit the sins, you inherit the flames
Adam raised a Cain

We were prisoners of love, a love in chains
He was standin' in the door I was standin' in the rain
With the same hot blood burning in our veins
Adam raised a Cain
Through the mansions of fear, through the mansions of pain,
I see my daddy walking through them factory gates in the rain,
Factory takes his hearing, factory gives him life,
The working, the working, just the working life.
obviously I've been hearing some of the lesser known songs of Darkness.... :)

there's a nice clip of his mother Adele Springsteen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR6dU9mejDE

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:10 am
by Diane
Hi Steven. At least you can now get these videos, which you couldn't before, which is great. I remembered your road trip and your comment, "It would be great to hear Bruce cover more songs of the doo wop (street corner harmony) genre of "If I should Fall Behind." (Like on the NYC Live album), when I saw this excellent old vid.of Sweet Soul Music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsfZpMugrNk

Kush, re. Patti and that song. I was thinking he could have written something like the lovely Wonderful Tonight that Eric Clapton wrote for Patti Boyd. He is a very bad man indeed. But yeah Surprise Surprise is about her, and so surely is Kingdom of Days. Must get back to that song - and others- if we ever get back to WoaD:-)

What a great video of Bruce's Mum you put up. I have never seen a photo of her before let alone a video. She is lovely! Just as I would have expected. Wow I'm dead pleased to have seen that vid thanks!
Kush wrote:Diane....I really like the lines you quoted above from Prove it all night but its with the preceding two lines that puts it into context for me.


Baby, tie your hair back in a long white bow,
Meet me in the fields out behind the dynamo,
You hear the voices telling you not to go,
They made their choices and they'll never know,
What it means to steal, to cheat, to lie,
What it's like to live and die.


He captures the desperation of youth in certain situations whether his own or somebody elses. The protagonist is almost a working class Dickensian character.
Yeah when I quoted those lines I was just thinking of the anger and desperation of Bruce/Bruce's characters, aside from the narrative but you're right you do need those lines for the story. And the chorus.

Here is a video with just the intro to that song, with some pretty mean guitar. Brilliant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iIweNHqALY

Darkness is an excellent album to be revisiting. I'd not heard it for years until we did that Top Ten thing.

ps
wow..thats a whole lotta Springsteen you got out of your system. :)
That comment made me laugh last night:-)

Nos da.

Re: Bruce Springsteen new albúm !

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:49 am
by Steven
Hi Diane,

I've been watching some videos, but not from my primary, home based computer.
The likely remedy to do so here will be to get a high speed line and a new computer
with up-to-date software. This should be coming in the next few weeks. My contribution
to stimulating the economy with this will have the upside of access to those videos
and, hopefully, less difficulties otherwise. I look forward to seeing all the videos
you and Kush recommend. Tonight, will put on some Doo Wop (now that you've
brought it up) and will try to get some paperwork done for tomorrow before sleep
gets in the way. Hope you and Kush (and whoever else is reading this thread)
had a great weekend.