Sadness and Joy in the News

News about Leonard Cohen and his work, press, radio & TV programs etc.
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Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl »

Tchocolatl wrote:Canada may go there to help, now. I still think the US army could have done the job alone by now, if it has been a priority for your leaders before economy/war. It is just an opinion, though.
It was written on September 1st. The article I read on that day also said that Canada wants US to know that it is here for US, it is its friend, will support and help if needed.

Really, there is no such thing as "the hatred of the US" in the word. There is a fed up with their agressive anti-democratic imperialism, (like there is a big difference between a person an his actions) which is normal. Perharps this other lie is necessary to continue to fear americans to justifie the money put on the "defense" budget? To cling to this "they hate us" thing is a bit of a self flagellation as Laurie coulorfully put it. It is just too easy to step on the feet of someone and yell that they are hateful because it hurts them. :D

Hum... US accepted the help of the ONU now. It is about time.

Edited 1 time in total. Joke. :)
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl »

But the world will be busy cleaning up its mess, as Japan is about - send all good vibs you can - to bit it by the same thing.

As long as we will put a plaster on a wood leg, I'm afraid we will have to witness more and more sad things.

It would be good if along with helping unlucky people in disaster we think to behave more wisely with the environment. It is an emergency also.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Bee ~

The "postings" were your two, immediate ones; not a generic reference.
You promote your 'cleverness' as much as you do anything here. Little that's Leonard appreciative.

Regarding Demetris, I just wish you would take responsibility for your own fantasies ~ "identification with the aggressor" phenomena and all that.

My postings on this thread were corraled from the beginning by me as being my own record of this horrific event. They just happen to be on a thread I started [imagine that]. They were identified by me as being exactly what they were. I condensed as much as I could from a lot I was reading and seeing, rather dispassionately and objectively, at first. I wanted a record and provided myself a record. How it is that you ~ and some others ~ apparently feel compelled to read what I've written is beyond me. No armed guards ~ National Guard, if you will ~ took you at gunpoint and directed your nose into the lowly space where you appear to feel my postings reside and forced you to read them allowed [to ensure that you really were reading them]. As far as other people, yes, they obviously do have the Internet. However, they may actually have had interest in what was occurring here, but not enough time on the computer to come here, plus "all over the map" of news coverage. Someone may have actually appreciated the thumbnail sketch of what was happening.

My reaction to it is not a stage-form bleeding heart. How others feel about it is up to them to or not to say. It could appear that you give these matters a few, cumulative hours of your time ~ and then take a few more slugs of that fine wine and tequila you buy, and on with life deep in your velvet seat. It happens to occupy a bigger space in me than that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that I'm glad to be me. Compassion goes beyond wondering if oneself should stock up on supplies. In fact, compassion tends more toward imagining and contrasting a hot day, where one is blithely able to reach into a refrigerator for a bite to eat and a glass of cold water; vs. being helplessly stuck in the blazing sun for 12 hours and another 12 in the faded light and stark darkness with nothing but fear and hopefully some faith, which for many failed, anyway. No home anymore and other major losses for the vast majority. Seeing people where they are at, right now; not where you might, possibly, someday be.

If the details are just too bothersome for you, may I make a constructive suggestion. Stop reading. If my speaking on my personal reaction to it all is too bothersome for you, another constructive suggestion. Stop reading. As you've aptly noted regarding your disregard of how I might feel upon your death [which, for the record, I would feel very badly about ~ and with my not being a Hell, fire, and brimstone Christian, judging and deeming you a sinner would be someone else's department]; my same disregard prevails regarding whether you like my focusing on the hurricane situation and its many, claimed and, as yet, unclaimed lives ~ but so severely disrupted as to have staked a claim, regardless, and still, perhaps, the final claim to be made.

If my encouragement and/or pleas for people to actually do something is a discomfort to you, take another slug of alcohol and numb yourself a little more. Turn off your TV, as well, as you're likely to encounter another foolish one of us, from locals to agency workers to celebrities, asking you to do the same.

The "moral superiority" contention with me was regarding P. Bush. I am not alone. Many leaders and people, worldwide, including some of his own, strongest, Republican supporters are agreeing. It has been an abominable shame. You might be surprized how slow help would come to your own, immigrant community. As much as you may be trying to integrate and become a thriving capitalist in this materialistic society we live in, when push came to shove, you would not be first on the rescue priority sheet ~ not by a long shot.

Yes, ones can think about it themselves. And I can talk about it myself. Guess what. You've landed in a country of free speech [for the most part]. I come from that inborn and parentally-encouraged perspective; and in this area of cyberspace we share, it still actually exists.

When it comes to having some style and some taste ~ if you and YdF, singly or in collaboration, offer classes on same, you'd better charge the highest fees and employ a great marketer for advertising your services. Otherwise, don't expect your enrollment to be high. For those duped into attending, don't expect your end-of-class [an ironic and unexpected double meaning there!] evaluations to be favourable.

Ahhh ~ the complacency that religion provides, as long as it's someone else. I didn't hear those platitudes when your dear friend died the most comfortable of deaths, even privileged to play major aspects of it out ahead of time ~ and in the safety and comfort of an intact home and friends.

How we part from life, being left to excruciatingly suffer, and how we are abandoned by our fellow human beings, and our departure becomes tragically premature as a result, is a concern for me. The "bloody murder" was not committed by the hurricane. It was committed by people.

Yes, don't "fuss that much," Bee [and Laurie]. It makes it sooooo tedious for others to have to read. So discomforting on some level that they must rail against it, in fact. "OK, die bitch, die!" ~ in trying to insult me, you may have inadvertently [or not] hit on what has been spoken, or at least felt, by those in decision-making positions. When already in the self-same country, taking a full, two days, before making a fly-over, speaks to magnitudes of realities. At some point, I will peruse the photo-ops, available via Internet, and see how many Blacks were hugged and kissed. The also much-delayed, in-person visits were restricted to the communities where Whites were far more likely to be encountered for 'comforting.' The most devastated area [as difficult as it is to imagine that there could be a "most"] was personally ignored, in more ways than one.

:lol: Of course, you would fire me ~ because my politically-incorrect action might affect your bottom line. Customer lost. Profit. Such a GOOD 'American' you've become; or, perhaps, that's what drew you here in the first place. That precious priority. Dollars over people ~ well, unless they're your own. But then, ethnocentricity and egocentricity are some of the easier lessons learned when hitting these shores, anyway; and immersion learning works particularly well for those trying to assuage their guilt for having left their homeland, rather than remaining to try to make things better, for all, there, those left behind. Do you at least write? Send photos?

However, Bee, some things are worth getting fired for ~ perhaps, pricking a conscience into the body's taking action; perhaps, only highlighting hypocrisy and bigotry and lip service to caring and concern. This happens to be an employer who has employed a Black woman, an incrediby decent woman, by any standard; who doesn't just bring her Bible to work, but lives out its principles in kindness of both word and deed, in honour of the main character of the Book she reads. One who is concerned for others, and who has worked hard her entire life to raise an equally-decent family. These facts are readily acknowledged by this owner; yet, approximately 15 years ago, when I first went to work with her, she took me inside her home with her after three weeks of my part-time employment. In conversation, where I presumed it was a given, I learned that after 23 years of reliable, faithful, full-time employment, by hand, making salads and other delicious items for the salad bar and whatever catering needs there were, that woman had never been inside that house. When I expressed my shock at this, and my chagrin was expressed through my citing the goodness of this woman, including some of the details I've provided here, the response came as though I were, somehow, naieve, with her matter-of-fact, "Oh, yes, I know, but she's still a nigger ~ and she'll never be allowed in my home." Even though Florida has benefited by the influx of many, broader-minded northerners and people from other countries, the area where I live is ~ for the most part ~ still the "Deep South" in its mentality. This is only one of many scenarios I could provide, but then that might prick parts of that velvet seat you occupy, too. I see it, I hear it, in virtually every segment of everyday life, and have since my arrival.

Texas ~ the land of lily-white Bush ~ is the same, if not moreso. Do not think that coming from that ingrained mentality, in addition to the status of privilege, is not part of the deeply-interwoven fabric from which decisions are wrought. Do not think ~ not for one minute ~ that race has not entered into the response to this tragedy ~ lest you be wrong. Do not think that response to the injured and killed, financial district, employees would have been compromised in any, similar fashion ~ and responsibility been abdicated to its having been someone else's; some other, governmental entity.

Oh, my ~ the loss of a job working for you. How tragic. You, who no doubt, remain at the height of professionalism, at all times. Especially, in the face of humanness. Such power, such control, you would have exercised. What a loss that would be ~ an employer from whom I have so much of value to learn.

Heart still bleeding in Florida,
Elizabeth
Last edited by lizzytysh on Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Tchoc ~

In the first place, my comment regarding the 'worldwide' hatred of the U.S. did not relate to Canada, but the highly-significant number of 50+ other countries. It's not a matter of clinging to a self-flagellation stance of being 'picked on,' but what I consider to be a statement of simple fact ~ one regarding the attitude of other countries' governments and people toward our government, but for the most part not toward our people. My comment was a pleasant one, as it confirms the objectivity of those governments that are reacting to the needs of our people. Moreso than our own. It was heartening to see, in the midst of growing, anti-American sentiment ~ worldwide. Or, haven't you noticed? Self-flagellation would hardly enter in, as I can relate to and agree with the concepts and premises that the anti-Americanism is based upon. It's not just a matter of frivolous fickleness and "not liking us" for no reason. You should not take it personally, thinking that I was feeling "oh poor us/U.S." with regard to Canada. Ours has been a long-standing, rather symbiotic relationship ~ perhaps, too much so, as you've indicated with regard to the medical/pharmaceutical industries.

~ Lizzy
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Bee ~

Post-traumatic stress syndrome is going to become a social problem in its own right, as a result of this. Two, police officers have already committed suicide ~ one who was a spokesperson regarding this disaster. The magnitude of this is unfathomable. But, I guess you won't spend more than a thought or two on this reality, either.

~ Elizabeth
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl »

Fats Domino is alive and kicking :D :

http://www.chartattack.com/damn/2005/09/0205.cfm

I heard the Diva Dion did a lecture about "slow moe" Bush's leadership in this case. Have a sample.

http://storiesinamerica.dailykos.com/st ... 4513/73662

Your heart goes on and on Celine 8)

And have a nice day, all of you :D

I found my thriIIIiilll Aaaon Blueberry hilll.....

http://www.elyrics4u.com/b/blueberry_hi ... domino.htm 8)
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Tri-me
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Post by Tri-me »

Celine Dion is a very emotional woman, good for her. Thanks for the link Tchocolatl. I hope Fats Domino is enjoying Labour Day, how were the blueberries in Quebec this year?
The relationship between Canada and the US is like siblings sometimes, we are always there to lend a hand to each other. Here's to remaining the world's longest undefended border.
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
Nan
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Post by Nan »

You know LIzzytysh, I like you but I just don't understand you. You seem to hate the South and yet you choose to live there. You lose no opportunity to criticize Southerners. Texas? "Land of the lily-white Bush"? That's a state that is largely Hispanic. You criticize Bush? Yet you do not lay the blame where it really belongs. On the New Orleans officials. Why? Is it because they are African American? The officials of New Orleans failed miserably. They are the ones who abandoned the city. The police force left in droves before the hurricane hit and so did all the other officials.

And I would have fired you too. It's not your job while you are working for someone else to straighten out his customers politically. Guess what? I wait on tables for a living. My boss would FIRE my butt if I did what you did. And he would be right to do so. I'm there to serve them not lecture them. Course if he had fired you, you would come here and talked about what a terrible person your boss is. About what a bigot he is. All because he doesn't want you (while He's paying you by the way) to vent your political viewpoint. There's a time and place for everything.

If Bush had immediately gone to New Orleans you would call him a hypocrite for that too. That he was just trying to score points. He waits 2 days. So now you can criticize him for that. He's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't.

And I don't think race has got a thing to do with the mess in New Orleans. It's poor planning or no planning by the City of New Orleans. I listened to the mayor of Galveston. He said that in Texas they have practiced and practiced what they would do in ANY emergency. He said it was appalling that New Orleans officials had not done the same. Why do you think that things were so orderly in Houston and other Texas cities that took the refugees? Because they were prepared. They had a plan already in place. New Orleans didn't. New Orleans failed.

I believe that if Katrina had hit New York City, the citizens there would have picked themselves up and gone to work. They woudn't have sat around crying and blaming big daddy government.
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Tri-me
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Post by Tri-me »

I listen to Frank Zappa too, this song is timely......You are going to jump on me for saying this, but there is still seems to be a big problem with the way minorities are treated in the US . I am happy to see the CBC reporting does not identify people as black or white, they are people. We are not perfect here in Canada, and the fact that our population is smaller makes all our problems less. When are people going to stop being black, white, yellow, aubergine, orange, pink, blue?
Trouble Every Day Lyrics (Frank Zappa)
Well I’m about to get up sick
From watchin my t.v.
Been checkin’ out the news
Until my eyeballs fail to see
I mean to say that every day
Is just another rotten mess
And when it’s gonna change, my friend
Is anybody’s guess
So I’m watching and I’m waiting
Hopin’ for the best
Even think I go to praying
Every time I hear them sayin’
That there’s no way to delay
That trouble comin’ everyday
No way to delay
That trouble comin’ every day

Wednesday I watched the riot
I’ve seen the cops out on the street
Watch them throwing rocks and stuff and choking in the heat
Listen to reports
About the whiskey passin’ round
Seen the smoke and fire
And the market burnin’ down
Watched while everybody on his street would take a turn
They stomp and smash and bash and crash and slash and bust ’n burn
And I’m watching and I’m waitin hopin’ for the best
Even think I go to prayin’
Every time I hear em sayin’
That there’s no way to delay
That trouble comin’ every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin’ everyday

You can cool it
You can heat it
Cause baby I don’t need it
Take your t.v. tube and eat it
And all that phony stuff on sports
And all those unconfirmed reports
You know I watch that rotten box
Until my head begin to hurt
From checkin’ out the way
The newsmen say they get the dirt
Before the guys on channel so and so
And further they assert
That any show they litter up
They bring you news if it comes up
They say that if the place blows up
They will be the first to tell
Cause the boys they got downtown
Working hard and doin swell
And if anybody gets the news
Before it hits the streets
They say that no one blams it faster
Their coverage can’t be beat
And if another woman driver
Gets machine gunned from her seat
They’ll send some joker with a brownie
And youll see it all complete

So I’m watching and I’m waiting
Hopin for the best
Even think I go to praying
Every time I hear them saying
That there’s no way to delay
That trouble comin’ everyday
No way to delay
That trouble comin’ every day

Well I’ve seen the fires burnin’
And the local people turnin’
All the merchants and the shops
Who use to sell their brooms and mops
And every other household item
Watch the mob just turn and bite em
And they say it serve them right
Because a few of them are white
And it’s the same across the nation
Black and white discrimination
Yell and you can understand me
And all that other crap they hand me
In the papers and t.v.
And all that mass stupidity
That seems to grow more everyday
These time of year some asshole say
He wants to go and do you in
Cause the color of your skin
Just don’t appeal to him
No matter if it’s black or white
Because he’s out for blood tonight.
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Nan ~

I'm going to have to answer you in segments because my computer seems to be walking a very thin line between being functional and not. After about 20+ minutes, I was almost through, and some list popped up on my list, and then all I'd answered you disappeared when something from that list filled the screen, and this site disappeared.

So, I started over, and 5 minutes into it, my computer froze, and wouldn't budge, despite my leaving it for another 20 minutes. So, I'll answer you in sections. If I don't get everything added in that I wanted to say, I'll just add it in later and refer back to where it belongs.

For now, I've got something else I've gotta do because major time has now literally been lost, with nothing to show for it. I'll be back.

~ Lizzy
LaurieAK
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Post by LaurieAK »

Her Lizzyness wrote:
Yes, don't "fuss that much," Bee [and Laurie]. It makes it sooooo tedious for others to have to read.
I have long ago stopped reading your word anvils verbatim...but i did see you bothered to drag my name into something not to do with me.

Yes, my "self-flagellation" post was directed at you, Lizzy, although I did not name any names.

Bee took it upon herself (she has every right) to try and analogize/expand on what I was saying. I said what I meant and you recognized yourself in that statement.

You revel in these things. You are at your happiest when most despondent...and you expect everyone within word-shot to agree with your angst, naming it "compassion" and thereby defining those who do not go along with your angst-ecstatic self as, 'not-compassionate'. Helluva choice that leaves. This is me expanding on my previous statement. It is only one person's opinion and not up for negotiation in case you are tempted to try and convince me otherwise.

ciao,
Laurie
Nan
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Post by Nan »

Lizzytysh, I'm sorry your computer isn't working. Mine does the same thing sometimes.

I read today in the New York Times that the Mayor of New Orleans is sending most of the Police Officers of New Orleans to Las Vegas. For FIVE DAYS! Las Vegas! He wants them to have a vacation. Why? Because they are so "traumtized". The Mayor asked the Federal Government to pick up the tab. That means me and you as taxpayers. Incredible. They failed the people of New Orleans. But, hey, let's go to Las Vegas and PARTY! This is just one example of the thinking and actions of the Officials of New Orleans.
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linda_lakeside
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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..

Post by linda_lakeside »

Nan,

I don't think that it's such a bad idea. The police in New Orleans make only approx. $13.00 an hour, and are putting in massive overtime (I'm sure). I haven't seen or heard a news report about sending them for a big party to Las Vegas, but many have quit and some have committed suicide over this. A tragedy that we only see superficially, they are living with, every single day.

These men and women are up to their waists in floating debris (including dead bodies) and Gawd knows what other kinds of crap (rats, body parts, use your imagination). I know the emergency efforts and inadequate maintenance of the levees are what allowed this hurricane such wide reaching devastation, but I don't think we should be blaming or taking anything away from the people on the front lines.

Dealing with the looting must be terrifying - the police never knowing when they might be shot. If they're giving the police time-off, it's probably in the hopes that they'll come back to the job. Without them, all will be lost.
I don't think the average 'cop on the street' is to blame for bad decision making. It's the higher ups that have to answer the hard questions. I say, give these men and women a break.

Linda.

Good Gawd, woman, of course they're traumatized!!! Wouldn't you be???
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Oh, MY HEAVENS, Catch me I'm FALLING, I'm OVERCOME with JOY ~ Do I win a PRIZE!?! My level of insight is just ASTONISHING, Ms. LAK, that I actually connected the dots on your omission of a name! Particularly, given your previous posts directly directed at me! How could I have POSSIBLY been so bright this time around ~ must have been a flash of brilliance! You did soooooo well at hiding it! And here I come along and just FLUSH it right out! Why, I just can't believe it! I can't believe it! I can't believe it! I actually figured out something that your coy self said without having to be directly told ~ without having to have you spell it out for me! Am I ready for your first-grade advancement on putting 2 AND 2 ~ TOGETHER!?! Oh my HEAVENS, I just can't BEEEEEELIEVE it!!! Oh, I'm just SO overcome, I must take a break.

If there's anything else in your profoundly profound posting to me here, I'll get back with you after I've rested ~ and If I can figure out what you've SAID and, then, what you actually MEANT ~ I'll do my best to respond. For now, I have to lie down.

As always,
Her Lizzyness [I rather like that :wink: ]
Young dr. Freud
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Post by Young dr. Freud »

To paraphrase Bill Murray:

"This is one nutty forum."


YdF
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