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Hmmmm....I guess that would be me....sort of, more of the early 70's hippie crowd. I saw Ochs not long before his death. Tragic end to a noteworthy career.

Linda.

Jurica- are you sure that was Insiantor's motive- to help you?

Jurica
You can be sure it was the main motive. Not because I think you are defenceless but more of a reaction to how you were being misconstrued. Anyway, you know that.

Your post was good food for thought, and what could I say in response to it apart form "exactly". As others have said there are many human acts that are spontaneous and generous which show that we do have a common humanity - the response to the Tsunami to name the most recent. It's good to know that most of us think the bystander mentality is the "wrong" one.

And now for some Svaty Pokoj

Kush, As far as Phil Ochs attacking the "hippie base" he was only offering some criticism to the contemplative element who sat around getting stoned and did not engage in social activism, protest or " confrontation of society with its inconsistencies." "Demonstartions are a drag, and besides we're much too high." Ochs was a juicer and did not take any other psychotropic drugs. He even made an anti- drug message recording ( which I never heard.) Hippiedom was divided into the visionaries and the revolutionaries as the Catholic church's monks and nuns are divided into orders of contemplative and actives. Each holds the other in contempt and accuses the other of goofing off, copping out or some such thing. The bible represents the contemplatives as Mary who sat at Jesus' feet and looked in his face while the actives are represented by Martha who prepared food and served with household chores. Jesus said, "Mary hath the greater part." He would have preferred Leonard Cohen to Phil Ochs.

Hi Lightning,

Ochs was of the generation before mine, although his "listening base", in my time, was probably the hippie crowd. The hippie crowd were a bunch of people looking for alternatives. Many went the wrong way, but there were those that understood the need for change. Vietnam and the rest of it as a case in point.

Ochs, whatever his political perspective, or his viewpoint on life in general,
gave much to music. LC has given much. Maybe their viewpoints were different than those of say, Creedance Clearwater. But we still love the music. Diversity is the spice of life. The same of Arthur Miller - who cares what his political outlook was? Miller, Ochs or Cohen, whatever an artist feels is bound to come out in his art. Enrich their art or inspire their art. I can live with that. The art.

Linda.

Good analyses, Lightning, thank you, very much to the point. It has always been the struggle between- who moves the weels and who paves the road

Jurica
You can be sure it was the main motive. Not because I think you are defenceless but more of a reaction to how you were being misconstrued

Right- Insinator- as soon as your post appeared on my screen- my computer was glowing all over with incredible light from above- and my computer sound turned on by itself; and there were glorious sounds and it looked like Angels from heaven were flying above; they were crying- hail and behold- here comes Insinator- de rightious one- Glory, Glory!
De other Angels from left of de computer were shouting- Let us honor him, let US give him the high respects- tell us, tell us he the story of the hero!!!Hallellujah!
The Angels on the right said- yeah, yeah- behold- there was a a fallen whore(artista )- she said the unforbidden words to a great dismay to the rulers of the universe- the male species, she kicked their balls and was spittin' in their holy faces Even there were 3 of them heros there trying to pacify the vicious whore- they tried to tie her up and commit here- no use- but...than it happened,,,
Then de most hero Holy Insinator came, and he spat and he kicked and he was done with her well, some more stones and she was done and done- under- where she belongs!!!!
And the Angels from the left were singing- Holy, Holy_let us sing and let us lift his heart to the heaven, up to his Maker- so he c'n enjoy the sweetness of victory, the holy awards for the righteousness- Glory, Glory!!!
After seeing this- I fell to the ground and I said to myself- Insinator- you were right- when ever you see 3 guy's attacking one woman- just kick her ars and you'll get the heavenly rewards!!!

It's good to hear that the generation after Phil Ochs is still listening to him. Dylan thought that his topical songs would be forgotten after the incident that provoked them was but he was wrong. Unfortunately it seems there is no end to the need for anti-war songs.Songs like "Changes" and "There But for Fortune" are among the best we have.

Yep, it's a shame there's no end to war songs. No matter how hard people try to voice their objection to war, they're always made to look like they're the ones 'disturbing the peace'.

Linda.

it's not just anti-war that is inspiering in his work.
like Billy Brag put it in a tribute song (sang at the tune of I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night):

i dreamed i saw phil ochs last night
alive as you or me
says i to phil "you're ten years dead"
"i never died' says he
"i never died" says he

the music business killed you phil
they ignored the things you said
and cast you out when fashions changed
says phil "but i ain't dead"
says phil "but i ain't dead"

the fbi harassed you phil
they smeared you with their lies
says he "but they could never kill
what they could not compromise
i never compromised"

"though fashion's changed and critics sneered
the songs that i have sung
are just as true tonight as then
the struggle carries on
the struggle carries on"

with the song of freedom rings out loud
from valleys and from hills
where people stand up for their rights
phil ochs is with us still
phil ochs inspires us still.

Thanks for posting that, jurica, I've not heard/seen it before. I couldn't have said it better myself (but we all know that).

Linda.

Thanks for the Hippie 101 lightning . I guess my generation can be accused of being too commercial/one track career minded.
That description of that particular song I think I read in the liner notes of a Phil Ochs album but I can't be sure.

Tom& Jurica- have you seen that movie of Andrey Koncholovsky- "House of Fools"-2002? It was given just 2 stars,(perhaps because of politics?) but I thought its was a great piece of art.

bee wrote:Tom& Jurica- have you seen that movie of Andrey Koncholovsky- "House of Fools"-2002? It was given just 2 stars,(perhaps because of politics?) but I thought its was a great piece of art.

nope.
i'll see if i can get it somehow. thanx for the tip.

I lost Koncalovsky after Tango&Cash. He was better back then in Russia in early 80s. I'll try to find it