Let's talk about A Life of Errands

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Yes, Tchocolatl on the pigs [let's get them taken care of straightaway :wink: ], I agree that humans are the culprits for the conditions they live in. In addition to what you've noted about the worms, pork also happens to be [even in the best of conditions] the hardest meat for our systems to digest. As I'm recalling, it's a 3-day period for the process to complete itself ~ and that's under the best of circumstances, with no colonics required first. [Now, some might say we're getting really "gross" :shock: !] "Cheers to the wild pigs that do not have to support us. We should eat acorns and leave pigs quiet." I'll say! Last year, I assisted as I was able by distributing flyers and talking to people regarding an upcoming vote on legislation [which I'm happy to say passed] on behalf of cruel conditions for pigs, the females confined to cages barely large enough to surround their bodies, and being held in them the entire term of their pregnancy, unable to even turn around. The "meat market" mentality.


As for the gold-rimmed glasses, what I quickly noted for lack of time, was of course, just the beginning :) ~ by no means were all those words used by Leonard simply to say what I quoted.....and my being "precise concise and efficient" 8) is owing to Leonard's having first struggled through the process, to forge this phrase, for my quick-and-easy access now :D ! [I'm afraid that I'd have had to go on....and on....and on about it :lol: :wink: .] It was, however, and thankfully, at least a beginning point :wink: . In fact, knowing how Leonard is concerned, as he is, with each and every word, I have several times wondered how long it took him to compose this poem!

I see that there are some real nuances that come with the Jewish influence. With the example you gave of the Buddhist influence, in the line regarding the traffic and the weather, I don't know enough about Buddhism to have made that connection. I do know, with my own experience with transcendental meditation that there was an extremely notable difference in how I processed the normal aggravations of driving, the conditions, the traffic, and the situations encountered! I couldn't believe the difference in how I felt behind the wheel of my car. "It's got to be the going, not the getting there, that's good" took on whole new meaning for me :lol: ! So, yes, I can relate that line to some kind of spiritual practice, and thank you for recognizing it as Buddhism.

Likewise, unfortunately, I wouldn't have considered the symbol of the capital letters as being a very Jewish idea :? ~ please forgive my ignorance in these areas. If I ask you questions as to why, it's not that I feel otherwise and am challenging your insights. It's simply because I want to learn what the connections are!

I agree on your question to musicians on this poem and could it be transposed fairly easily into a piece of music. Expansive it would be to get some musicians in on the discussion of this poem. I hope our urging will bring forth someone from that arena willing to hang around us for awhile here, and give us their perspectives.

As for now, Tchocolatl ~ I just don't know what my guess is yet why Leonard chose those particular words :? ~ though I do know he had his reasons :D ! I think the "Yes sir-no sir" thing is, as you say, the military effect, Field Commander Cohen on a mission; as well as a verbal habit borne of ingrained, good breeding; and a trait associated with his being a true gentleman. Add to that, that trying to retrieve those gold-rimmed glasses would stand a better chance with a respectful approach, than a rude, insistent one :wink: . He also conveyed a quiet kind of confidence and certainty in the way he "spoke" this line. One which would ring true with the listener, as opposed to someone trying to heist a pair of glasses, belonging to some unknown patron from the casino crowd.

Okay, your turn, Tchocolatl :D ! [I hope I was briefly-better this time :wink: .]

I'm still going to work on the restatement deal :shock: .

Love,
Lizzy

Hear-ye, hear-ye, all musicians..........
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Oh dear, this next sentence is a toughie in its length. At 8:30 PM here, with people already sleeping in Europe, and nothing still here, I'll give it the "good ol' college try" :? .

"In Spite Of The Ache / In Your Heart / About The Girl You / Never Found / And The Fact That / After Years Of / Spiritual Rigor You Did Not Manage / To Enlighten Yourself / A Certain Cheerfulness / Will Begin To / Arise Out Of Your Crushed / Hopes And Intentions." Ey-yi-yi!!!

[Attempted :? ] Restatement :shock: :

"Even though life did not go as you had hoped, with your still longing and aching for the love and the ["perfect"?] girl you had always imagined; and even though, after many years of strict discipline in spiritual practice, entered with "expectation," you did not "become 'light' " in your being and attitude; even though all of that may be true, a certain kind of acceptance, that will bring its own kind of joy will begin to emerge, as you realize and accept that these hopes and intentions are part of life; and even though you have felt crushed by not having realized all of your expectations, you have survived to be an old person, and that has a joy of its own, which you have a right to experience; and like a phoenix rising from the ashes, comes the purity of life without expectation [which leads to the lack of cheerfulness] as you live in the moment, just appreciating being alive."

With this "restatement" comes my humble apology for putting words in your mouth, Leonard. No one said this exercise was going to be easy, but then I don't recalling anyone saying it was going to be this hard, either :wink: :lol: . Whew!!!

Love,
Lizzy
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Makera
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Post by Makera »

Funny, I have been 'on topic' but some are so fixated on porcine and other tangents they keep missing/ignoring it. e.g. L C lines that 'Protest Too Much', ? ding! ding! (not to mention the other meaning of Proverb)

~Makera

(I must be tired when I can't spell 'too' :roll: )
Last edited by Makera on Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Helven
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Post by Helven »

Hello!

My piglets became a hit! How sweet! :wink:

Oh! Elizabeth! I'm here to give my restatements but you've done it! 8)
And it's great! 8) :D

But let me still put my ones too (with some interpretations, unfortunately) - I worked so hard again! :)

You didn’t find a girl [who would became your “one-and-only”]; you have been trying for ages to “hold strictly” spiritual way of living but you wasn’t able to “move yourself near” the realization of sanctity; all these will make your heart ache; but nevertheless your vain hopes and unrealized intentions will give rise to some cheerfulness.

You didn’t find a girl [who would became your “one-and-only”]; you have been examine for ages with all the thoroughness all the spiritual teachings but you weren’t be able to comprehend them perfectly [and therefore to choose your own one]; all these will make your heart ache; but nevertheless your vain hopes and unrealized intentions will give rise to some cheerfulness.

You didn’t find a girl [who would became your “one-and-only”]; you have been trying for ages to “hold strictly” spiritual way of living but you wasn’t able to “move yourself near” the realization of sanctity; all these will make your heart ache; but you will find your vain hopes and unrealized intentions stupid and ludicrous and it will give rise to some cheerfulness.

You didn’t find a girl [who would became your “one-and-only”]; you have been doing for ages severe spiritual practices but you wasn’t able to “move yourself near” the Enlightenment/Awakefulness; all these will make your heart ache; but nevertheless as your hopes and intentions [that enslaved your mind before] will be “crumbled to dust” you will fill some cheerfulness.
(It was Buddhistic one)

Love,
Tanya/Helven
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Hey, Helven ~ :D

Yes, we walk the same line, and then we diverge, and then we return, and I love your alternatives!

I am particularly struck by these:

(1) "who would become your 'one-and-only' " ~ even though seeking perfection is what can prevent that from happening, that indeed is what's really being sought, the real "goal." Your way of stating it makes that clearer.

(2) "but you will find your vain hopes and unrealized intentions stupid and ludicrous and it will give rise to some cheerfulness." I love the self-effacing humour, as he laughs at himself in this. It has very real possibilities :D !

(3) "but nevertheless as your hopes and intentions [that enslaved your mind before] will be 'crumbled to dust' you will fill some cheerfulness.
(It was Buddhistic one)" ~ It does have that Buddhistic perspective, and it seems to suggest that once the space within is emptied, it can fill with joy, i.e. cheerfulness.

You also did better [surprize, surprize :wink: ] at keeping your sentences shorter ~ mine is one heck of a long, complex sentence ~ and I was unnerved by the length of his :lol: !?!

All your hard work shows, Tanya 8) :D ! Believe me, I know and can relate :shock: !

Love,
Lizzy

See now ~ these tigers are well-behaved. Maybe it's the calming influence of your piglets 8) :D ! Hey, check out the poem that Lightning posted in the Member's Poetry section ~ it's on our swine :D !
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Helven
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Post by Helven »

Dear Lizzy, thanks for finding my restatements somehow interesting! :D

And I like yours very much! I really do! It’s very wise!

It’s very important that you’ve emphasized a moment of acceptance. Yes, that’s true, it’s acceptance that permits us to feel joy even if “it all went wrong”!

“…even though you have felt crushed by not having realized all of your expectations, you have survived to be an old person, and that has a joy of its own…” – YES :idea: 8) :D !!! And it didn’t come into my head; it even wasn’t “near to it”! :lol:

And I like also the image of a phoenix you used in your restatement. I’ve always loved it. It’s something for me!

Yours,
H/T
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Dear T/H [yes, that works for me!] ~ Thanks for your feedback :) .

Yes, that acceptance aspect is something that I can personally relate to ~ it really does come! Regardless of all our plans and schemes, our hopes and dreams; whatever is, is! That in-the-moment, non-competitive appreciation, of being here to experience what is ~ having seen so many peers leave this plane, and younger ones who never got the chance to really experience it ~ a comfortableness with yourself; even having the human connections, of having people in your life, for whom to run errands, it's acceptance ~ it's gratitude ~ it's joy! It didn't come easily. It's notable that it did :D .

Since I read Herman Hesse's book Damien, the image of a phoenix rising has always been very expressive for me. I remember how intrigueing the picture on the paperback was for me, before I even read the story!

So, are you going next on restating the next sentence :lol: ? Ha-ha, tagged you first :wink: :D !

Love,
Lizzy
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Helven
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Post by Helven »

So, are you going next on restating the next sentence:lol:? Ha-ha, tagged you first :wink: :D !
:lol: :lol: :lol: ! OK! But later a bit! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I like "Damien" too. And Wolf, and ...I have no idea on the English name... Game with the glass beads... something like that. And my favorite one is a story of a person who underwent treatment in Baden (don't know its English name too, sorry!)

Love, H/T
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Hi Tanya Helven ~

I think if you just rearrange your words, you'll have the English name.....The Glass Bead Game :D . The treatment-in-Baden one, I'm unfamiliar with.....but with your high recommendation, and the notion of treatment, well.......need I say more :D ?

Oh good! I think we both need a rest! I'll wait on you; however, since you're taking a little time off, if Tchocolatl, Vesuvius, Joe, or Sohbet jump in, I suspect neither of us will mind :wink: ! See you on the morrow, and what [if anything's] transpired. Maybe Margie will have even come in, perused the course outlines, familiarized herself with the "rules," and bingo[!] there we'll have it! One way or the other.........this one gets to relax :) 8) ~ !

Love,
Lizzy
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Helven
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Post by Helven »

Oh! I forgot!
Siddhartha!!!

Hi Lizzy,

OK! The Glass Bead Game. Thanks :D
I've finally found myself! But that turned out to be a completely different person.
/contemporary saying/
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

A-h-h-h-h, okay, Helven!

Thanks! I have only started Siddhartha. Never completed it because I got waylaid with other things ~ got nowhere near the treatment-in-Baden part ~ guess I oughta get back to it, eh? What a great name, eh? Siddhartha ~ the look and the sound. OK, so what's this got to do with A Life of Errands? Well, it's that break we needed :D !

And, you're welcome, of course!

~ Lizzy
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl »

Helven, pigs are doing the best of pets. :D Lizzy, and other bad stories about the way they are farmed (auhg :? ), and what about all these antibiotics that have replaced worms in their smooth flesh? Makera, for accuracy I (or anybody) never said that you where out of subject. I take your "ding!ding!ding!" for a direct hint about Anthem and I'm still waiting that you develop your acorn of an opinion of your own. No matter if you are "right" or "wrong" ("" put there because only LC could say), "Forget your perfect offering" and step both feet on the game :)

No musicians talk.
No comment on the golden-pair, Sir. No Sir I, won't mind. Yes Sir I'm lying. :lol:
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Great segue, Tchocolatl :D Yes, the antibiotics stories are equally grim, I am loathe to report. True, on the pigs making wonderful pets!

[I commented on the glasses/no-sir/yes-sir/lying, Tchocolatl, did you miss it? ~ at least I thought it was a comment :? :lol: .]

Sooner or later, some musician is simply going to be unable to control him/herself and just burst into the room with lots of music-related information.......we can hold out hope, keep the faith, all that jazz [ :wink: ]. We still have a long way to go, so there's still plenty of time :) ~ just the sooner, the better; I know what you mean, Tchocolatl.

~ Lizzy
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Post by Tchocolatl »

And I thought it was a preambule. :P Thank you for keeping the flame of hope alive :D. Yes, wait and see.

Take care
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

In the meantime.......Let's Talk About "A Life Of Errands" :wink: ~ I tagged you, Tchocolatl ~ so you're next :D ! As in, "It's your turn 8) !"

When I return tomorrow, I just k-n-o-o-o-o-w there's going to be another restatement [or something :o !].

Taking care :D :wink: , and patiently waiting on those musicians to drag all their equipment in, and get set up. We can just pass the time, meanwhile, by talking about the next sentence, eh :lol: ? :arrow:
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