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so glad the cd's arrived safely lizzy it's amazing how cohen admirers also have similar musical tastes and appreciate other "one off" artiists

It seems there are two parallel universes on the same topic....
I myself picked up 'Alice' last evening and it's good, I liked it. Too early for me to say whether I'll invest in another Tom Waits but I certainly did not dislike it. Quite bluesy. The Flowers Grave song reminded me of a Cat Stevens line..."The dustbin cried the day the dustman died"..although it is not exactly the same idea. My tastes in musical style are in fact quite conventional...I mostly hear country music....and Waits is a little bit out there which may have contributed to my initial dislike. Thanks to all the recommendations...it was worth it.
To carry over the Springsteen topic from the other universe......my take on him is that he is as good a writer as it gets in the songwriter-poet-singer category but his problem may be that his persona/performance just doesnt cut a tragic figure...and he just isn't artsy enough to be taken seriously as a writer. I mean, how can you be a poet and work out in the gym everyday and have biceps like that?

~ Good point on the gym & biceps, Kush ~ not exactly where we look to find our starving artists You may be right that some of the merits of Springsteen's writing gets subterfuged by his personae and performances. "Alice" is a pure winner for me! Glad you're at least finding some merit in it. I like the synchronicity with your purchase and mine . I can see the dust on his clothing, some of it colourful, some of it quite dark.

Yes, Margaret, I find that rewarding too, the similarities we find, particularly in the "one off" directions .

I intentionally went to sleep last night listening to Nick Cave, with Boatman's Call ~ such loving-sounding songs he sings. So unlike anything I ever expected! Now, I need to order the angel voices in the cathedral. Have briefly looked, but need to look again to find them. This Forum [and the Sony Board] have brought so much music into my life. What a gift of life it is !

Ohhhh ~ how I would love the thrill of seeing Waits perform. Ania ~ it's you and me, babe !

~ Elizabeth

Oooooh........my job has just catapulted with a quantum leap in pleasure. Now, I have plush, padded headphones for private listening of my music all day long, as I work . It's unbelievable that I could be sitting here in such a lush world, with no one else hearing a thing .

I'm still saturating myself with Tom Waits [playing right now] and Nick Cave, before moving on to Leonard. Nowhere near getting enough of them yet. Will make additional comments for you, Rock Rose, TC, and Biraj, later .

~ Lizzy

I also have my record-store guy trying to locate "Anonymous 4," and Jan Garbarek's "Rites" and "Officium" with the Hilliard Ensemble. Here's hoping .

OK, I give. Went hunting the Tom Waits site for touring information. It appears he hasn't made any appearances since 2002. I see nothing regarding anything upcoming [tours], and it appears the latest ones were in France and Poland in 2000. Does anyone know anything different?
I'm wondering if the same will be true for Nick Cave.

I'm finding more than "atleast some merit" in it. Still he is an acquired taste which takes time but I am glad to have made this purchase.

Oh good, Kush.....I'm glad to hear that I underestimated your reaction to him . Now, if I could find an LC Files-calibre site on him. His official one reminds me of Sony's out-of-date info.

Hi Elizabeth:

Good to know you have joined in the dark celebration of Nick Cave and Tom Waits. What did you think of "Let Love In"?? Just wondering. There is a wealth of music by both of them that is waiting to be mined by you - if you wish.

It is interesting that no one on this forum has ever said anything about Van Morrison. I very much enjoy his work as well.

Hope you are able to find Jan Garbarek and Anonymous 4 soon. By the way "Rites" is a double CD.

May we all continue to live in the embrace of music....each to their own.

Enjoy,


Biraj

I'll comment more later, Biraj....but, for starters, I love the vulnerability of the cover of the cd, "Let Love In." His exposed throat, his bared heart area. As open as he could be for letting love in. I contrast it with the cover of The Boatman's Call, protected by all the clothing, the more defensive posturing and look in his eyes.

Did Nick Cave undergo any kind of conversion? There seem to be a lot of references to Jesus. It seems to have a more "upbeat" sound, as though things are getting better in many ways. As I said, I'll comment more later.

~ Lizzy

Although I've seen Jan Garbarek 3 times, I only got a cd called The gray voice recently when on holiday in Turkey(burned to order from a young man who makes a small living this way) His albums are pretty expensive in England. However I just found Officium, the medieval churchy collaboration with the Hilliard Ensemble at an online site,and ordered it last night, along with a bargain priced copy of the 1970 Isle of Wight dvd.

I try to gather some music for "new to me" artists through WinMX for free to see if I like them. Nick Cave and Lucinda Williams are recent examples, but so far I've only managed to get one complete album of Nicks, "No more shall we part". I'll keep searching for the other recommended titles.

Lucinda Williams is also very good.

Biraj, I'm sure we have some Van Morrison fans here, he's been mentioned a few times, but finding the threads might be difficult!

Hi Margaret:

It is good to know that Van Morrison is not being completely missed out on. I think he is truly a great musician and singer. What I find amazing about him is that his words are usually not that great but it is just the way he articulates them. He is so musical that he need only talk (as he does on the song called "Coney Island" and it just comes out beautiful). Maybe it is the Irish thing..... In fact I have observed that in some of his songs he uses very cliched English expressions like "Too many cooks spoil the broth" etc. But even these expressions sound beautiful when he uses them in his songs. My favourite album by VM is "Avalon Sunset" it is exquisitely beautiful. I also love his double CD "Hymns to the Silence". I find VM mystical and spiritual....though he has written and sung songs about how life has been for him.

I also enjoy the band named "Art of Noise". One of my favourite CDs by them is "The Seduction of Claude Debussy". The great thing about this particular CD is that it merges contemporary sounds with classical...and also has spoken voice on it by John Hurt, whose voice I absolutely love. Unfortunately like Leonard he too has not done much spoken voice...and this is one of my life's great disappointments...lol!!!

Check out this review of "The Seduction of Claude Debussy":

http://www.canoe.ca/JamAlbumsA/artofnoi ... ction.html

I must confess that I don't much care for the track titled "Metaphor on the Floor" on the album, nice name but too rappish for me.

Another album by someone obscure that I enjoy very much for its fusion of contemporary electronica and opera is a CD titled "Operatica" by "O". If you can ever get ahold of it I think you will enjoy it.

I also like Barry Adamson, he has done some work with Nick Cave as well. Barry's work is mostly instrumental. I see it as somewhat noirish jazzy film soundtrack kind of stuff. On one of Barry's album's Nick has sung an absolutely incredible song called "Sweetest Embrace". In fact somehow I think of it more as Nick's song than Barry Adamson's.

In classical music I also enjoy flute solos by Jean Pierre Rampal. They are the epitome of serenity. Then of course some of the Tango music (on piano, Bandoneon or accordion) I find very beautiful too. As well I am big into some film soundtracks for e.g. "Room With A View", "Ulysses' Gaze", "Once Upon A Time In America", "Tous Le Matin Du Monde" (actually this is also a superlatively incredible movie). Check out this link about the movie:

http://www.metalasylum.com/ragingbull/m ... atins.html



Enjoy and take care,

Best


Biraj

Thanks for those new recommendations Biraj. I have not heard of some of them, but I will check out the links and look for some samples. Always willing to try new sounds!

What a great idea for an avatar, Margaret ~ yourself as a child , and still fully recognizable !

~ Elizabeth

~ To Paula on Eminem ~

Oh dear, what is this world coming to!?! I finally watched "8 Mile," with Eminem, which gives the distinct and strong impression that it chronicles his life. I would really like to know for sure if it does. It doesn't fully align with all the things I've heard [primarily the Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy that he reportedly suffered at the hands of his mother], but the movie certainly depicts him as a sympathetic character. It shows his suffering neglect; emotional abuse [via pleasure in humiliation, and overt choice of lover over son]; and emotional abuse and endangerment, via domestic violence. I felt sympathetic to Eminem, and respected how he wrought his way through the dangers of the neighborhoods and social realms where he lived.

The movie depicts him as someone hard-working, who is sincerely trying to wrench himself out of his circumstances and, as we know, managed to do just that. It also shows the caring side of him on behalf of the welfare of children ~ what I would guess is at the heart of the reports of his not allowing his own children to listen to his music, and to not allow swearing in his home. If the movie is a chronicle, he clearly knows the difference. He's shown as a young man desperate to not just survive the bleakness and hopelessness permeating his life, but to remove himself from it and thrive, as well. One who also valued what he considered love to be.

Some random notes I made as I watched [which come in no particular order, but will probably resonate with you, when you watch it all the way through ~ none of them quotes from the film] are:

~ the street greys and blues of industrialism
~ industrial environment, industrial Detroit/nothingness
~ that's a kid who's feeling scared/desperate/helpless/vulnerable deep down inside [these thoughts came early on, looking at his eyes in some close-ups of his face
~ intense/use of silence/sensitivity to children
~ sympathetic character/figure/you're definitely on his side
~ reminds me of "Rocky" in the fighting ring
~ a test of wills
~ "You want raw? I'll show you raw!" [if you are to gain their 'respect,' your safety, and your 'place,' it's essential to "outdo" them in their genre]
~ genuine affection with his black 'brothers;' comes by their respect honestly
~ determination to get out of his circumstances
~ recognizes inappropriate conversations with children
~ leader qualities
~ respect his determination and fortitude

I saw what the young, black man in the tuxedo shop, approximately a year ago, was referring to about the difference in his lyrics, and his delivery. I also saw the quickness in his thought process, as he rapped, and his 'realness.' I saw his early and abiding dedication to what he's trying to do/doing in the world of music. He also seems to have a natural, acting ability.

The competitions were great ~ like rapping "the dozens" ~ with a couple very interesting scenes, where "exposure" manifested in several ways.

Do I approve/embrace the content of the majority of his lyrics that I've heard? No. That would be lying. However, if this movie closely parallels Eminem's life, I've gained respect for him as a person, and presumably having seen them in accurate context of their origin, I can see and understand how his lyrics came to be. It was the street-code form of earning 'respect,' and appears to have been an alternative ~ for the most part ~ to violence/more typical, gang activity. He also appears to have lived with courage in his personal life. If the movie is 'real,' it definitely changed my perception of him as a person, and he is not a fraud, or rapper "wannabe." What's ironic is that now, when I hear rap coming from somewhere, I find myself listening to see if it's him.

Love,
Lizzie

Oh dear, Margaret, now I feel like I need to watch my language and what I say, in front of the 'new you' ~ like, perhaps, I should've excused myself to another room, while I talked about Eminem .

~ Elizabeth

don't worry Elizabeth, just carry on as before I never found an avatar that was really "me" so I thought I might as well just be myself, but a few years younger!