I hope she sees that it has legs to stand on it's own and gives it a chance to do so.lizzytysh wrote:I hope Manna returns and lays claim to your beautiful explanation.
You got to be joking. Isn't it obvious?Now, what about its title?
Petit Mort
Well it seems to me that what the poem was about was her appreciation for poetry but what her poem does is not point to the importance of poetry but rather the importance of the small moments of the everyday where the little bits of cool can be killed releasing the sparks of beauty that reside in their original sacredness that the cool kept in suspended animation. She reminds us that it is the little moments that make all the difference.lizzytysh wrote: I'm not joking. That's why I asked.
~ Lizzy
and like Lorca she knows that it is the little deaths that matter
Song of the Little Death
Yesterday, tomorrow.
Mortal grassy heaven.
Light and sandy darkness…
Cathedral of the ashes.
Light and sandy darkness.
Tiny little Death.
by Federico García Lorca
We are all
!/2 animal
1/2 civilised.
The animal in Manna
want's an affair
The civilised Manna
thinks she "should" feel this way
about her husband
but, as leonard said'
in greensleeves;
"Oh how I wished you were someone new".
Naughty, naughty girl!
Matj
!/2 animal
1/2 civilised.
The animal in Manna
want's an affair
The civilised Manna
thinks she "should" feel this way
about her husband
but, as leonard said'
in greensleeves;
"Oh how I wished you were someone new".
Naughty, naughty girl!
Matj
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
Hi Jack ~
Now, why didn't that occur to me
? More precisely, why wasn't that obvious ?
It has since occurred to me to wonder whether any poem about the love of poetry could be transposed to a love poem about a man and woman... or vice versa . Or, if any love poem about a man and woman, or the love of poetry, could be transposed to a poem about love for G~d... or vice versa... and round robin.
Even you seemed not absolutely certain that it's her husband, when you postulated,
"she won't let poetry carry her away from the world and turns, probably to her husband,"
or, perhaps, unlike Alexandra,
she won't let some/thing else carry her away from the world
and turns, probably to her husband...
I only briefly tried the transposing in my mind with the verse:
the poet may be considered to kneel,
as to one's muse,
at the delta, at the alpha and the omega,
the source of all thought, the source of all words,
kneeling like one who believes,
trusting that with faithfulness,
those words will come,
as the blessings come from heaven,
from out of the unknown,
from the muse...
with the poet only the recipient,
kneeling, ready to receive
and for a second,
knowing that eternity may forever be expressed in those words,
then for something like a second,
or a minute, or an hour,
the poet is cured from the torment,
of trying to express one's own truth,
or the truths of mankind,
or in the extreme, more mundane,
being successful in the removal of writer's block,
and the poet's heart is at ease
another poem written,
another phrase gotten,
another word found.
It seems it could work
... doesn't it .
~ Lizzy
Using Mat's interpretation, which I've just now seen,
the affair would feel a bit primal wouldn't it?
The drum beats calling one to another,
in that primal kind of way...
summoning...
Is it not often the goddess that feels awakened
in an affair... hence, the irresistable draw for both...
how even better to have her
ever present in the marriage...
Well, I offered much earlier to delete these musings.
I like this poem very much for the way it expresses whatever it expresses, whatever it means.
I'm still fascinated by the transposition idea.
At least for now we've managed to kill cool.
Personally, I think the answer to all this lies over there in that kill cool thread:
Now, why didn't that occur to me
? More precisely, why wasn't that obvious ?It has since occurred to me to wonder whether any poem about the love of poetry could be transposed to a love poem about a man and woman... or vice versa
. Or, if any love poem about a man and woman, or the love of poetry, could be transposed to a poem about love for G~d... or vice versa... and round robin.Even you seemed not absolutely certain that it's her husband, when you postulated,
"she won't let poetry carry her away from the world and turns, probably to her husband,"
or, perhaps, unlike Alexandra,
she won't let some/thing else carry her away from the world
and turns, probably to her husband...
I only briefly tried the transposing in my mind with the verse:
There are deeper ways to consider this, of course, but for my quick exercise, I considered thatSo I knelt there at the delta,
at the alpha and the omega,
I knelt there like one who believes.
And the blessings come from heaven
and for something like a second
I'm cured and my heart
is at ease
the poet may be considered to kneel,
as to one's muse,
at the delta, at the alpha and the omega,
the source of all thought, the source of all words,
kneeling like one who believes,
trusting that with faithfulness,
those words will come,
as the blessings come from heaven,
from out of the unknown,
from the muse...
with the poet only the recipient,
kneeling, ready to receive
and for a second,
knowing that eternity may forever be expressed in those words,
then for something like a second,
or a minute, or an hour,
the poet is cured from the torment,
of trying to express one's own truth,
or the truths of mankind,
or in the extreme, more mundane,
being successful in the removal of writer's block,
and the poet's heart is at ease
another poem written,
another phrase gotten,
another word found.
It seems it could work
... doesn't it .~ Lizzy
Using Mat's interpretation, which I've just now seen,
the affair would feel a bit primal wouldn't it?
The drum beats calling one to another,
in that primal kind of way...
summoning...
Is it not often the goddess that feels awakened
in an affair... hence, the irresistable draw for both...
how even better to have her
ever present in the marriage...
Well, I offered much earlier to delete these musings.
I like this poem very much for the way it expresses whatever it expresses, whatever it means.
I'm still fascinated by the transposition idea.
At least for now we've managed to kill cool.
Personally, I think the answer to all this lies over there in that kill cool thread:
By extension, isn't it obvious?The Wave-equation for the electron, in spherical coordinates, is:
d2(AMP)/dr 2 + 2/r{d(AMP)/dr} - 1/c2x d2(AMP)/dt 2= 0 (1)
Yep... if we'll just open ourselves more to science, we may find there's a logical explanation for everythingOh, Lizzy! I think you've got it! It's all about electrons in pi orbitals. Yep yep yep.
.I've been thinking that very thing... and how actually surprized I was when you first said it seemed incomplete and lacking and needing "revision revision revision" ~ what's to revise? Likewise, one can't help but notice that very thing... how much attention it's receiving. It reminds me a bit of Andrew's poem that was so controversial in its way that it got a whole lot of attention, as wellI feel kind of honored that this thing I thought was incomplete and lacking in many ways has received so much attention.
.~ Lizzy
Sorry, I thought that since the equation was for electrons in spherical orientations, and that pi orbitals are kind of lobe shaped that I had to demote your level of understanding. S1 & S2 are the spherical orbitals for electrons. There are more S orbitals, but S1 & S2 are the simplest. I'm sure you're very interested in this little science lesson.
Demote my level of understanding... Manna, how could you!?!
Surely, you can promote it.
~ Lizzy
Surely, you can promote it.
Of course, I'm interested; and, not just interested, but very interested. When it all comes down to dust, we're all masses of vibrating electrons... and I'm sure you're in one of those spherical orbitals, as am I... and one might even catch some flecks of us, all busy in the sunlight, floating and dancing like the woman to the drum.I'm sure you're very interested in this little science lesson.
~ Lizzy
JRe: Petit Mort
Manna,
Fully engaging in any something can mean that a "Petit Mort" or
"Grand Mort" takes place at the level of individuation, ideas,
preconceptions, etc. But, something new can arise, even if it is
solely the recognition of connection. -- Consider the moon and
sun that you wrote of. The moon is illuminated by the light of
the sun. And the sun has the moon to bestow its light upon.
The feeling of danger could be an apprehension that a Mort
is at hand, albeit maybe positive. People tend to fear change,
but change is the vehicle for evolutionary progression. People,
at times, are also excited at the welcome possibilities.
Just some thoughts quickly writtten (time constraints). I like this poem.
Fully engaging in any something can mean that a "Petit Mort" or
"Grand Mort" takes place at the level of individuation, ideas,
preconceptions, etc. But, something new can arise, even if it is
solely the recognition of connection. -- Consider the moon and
sun that you wrote of. The moon is illuminated by the light of
the sun. And the sun has the moon to bestow its light upon.
The feeling of danger could be an apprehension that a Mort
is at hand, albeit maybe positive. People tend to fear change,
but change is the vehicle for evolutionary progression. People,
at times, are also excited at the welcome possibilities.
Just some thoughts quickly writtten (time constraints). I like this poem.
Lizzy wrote
(BTW I don't want to give the impression that I know how to read this equation because I don't. I don't have that kind of education and so I am only picking out the part that I have had a bit of personal experience with that interests me and that is the importance of knowing that there is always both an in as well as an out wave)
As usual my round about way involves a story.
When my son was small I use to put him to sleep night after night singing him the same song. The song was "Windmills of your mind"
Occasionally when he wasn't too sleepy he would ask me about something in the song. One night he asked me what a ripple was from the line "like a ripple from a pebble someone tosses in a stream". I liked showing him things rather than telling him so we got out of bed filled the bathroom sink with water and dropped one of his marbles into the water and watched the ripples. I wasn't happy with my demonstration and then did it again this time placing something small floating on the water to show that it was the wave moving across the sink and not the water.
Then we went back to bed and he went to sleep. I still wasn't happy with my demonstration and realized that it was using the sink that interfered with being able to show the complete wave. The shallow bottom of the sink and it's sides caused too much interference. I needed to be able to show him a wave in the air. So another day I did this by tieing a piece of rope to a doorknob, stretching out the rope and with a flick of the wrist sent a wave out along the rope. What happened, and this is certainly safe to try yourself at home, is that the wave went to the doorknob turned around and came back to my hand and stopped. It was over, done with and finished. I let him try it a few times so that his body would experience that waves always have to resolve themselves by returning to their source. We just sometimes don't see it because of the interference.
So now with this picture of waves in the sink and waves in the air lets return to Manna's poem.
Anyone who posts a poem to a group like this is in some way dropping a pebble into a bathroom sink keeping in mind that the pebble is also all waves. It can be somewhat shallow by the very fact that we think that this is our Manna, someone that we feel that we know something about and so we don't get to experience knowing if her poem is one that would be able to reach us across a great distance. Would we look at it in a different way if we had been told that it was being written by a very famous poet who is admired by all? Who we have never talked to nor have any way of doing so. We can't do that but we can at least try. to the extent that we can we can set ourselves at a distance to see if the poem still reaches us. To the extent that I am able the poem never loses it's beauty but I can never be sure because like all of us I am not that impossible that she yearns for. On the other hand like the vastness of the sun being perfectly balanced with the nearness of the moon we do have Manna here with us as we have each other and the opportunity presents to be able to at least have some waves return to her that she honored us by sending our way.
For a long time I have wondered about how to do that well to all the poems and posts that I see people place here and everywhere. Lizzy I like what you said and demonstrated about transposing and I think that is it.
One of the things that interests me about the demonstration for my son to show how a wave can return is what happens when the wave gets to the door and has to turn around to return. It does something really beautiful. The wave goes through two 360 degree quantum rotations and then heads back. I was told that Scientific America did an article about that some time ago using the principal to show how magicians are able to use the principal with great effect. One of the examples is someone from a stationary position being able to place a glass of wine on their open palm, turn their hand in two complete rotations and not spill a drop of wine.
I'm not sure where I am going with this as I have never thought about this before but it seems to me that to return a wave that somehow we need to let it transpose itself in our thinking for those two complete 360 degree rotations. It has to be that way because that is the only way for a wave to return. It is going to happen if we like it or not but it is for us to decide to see how it happens and to enjoy it.
I don't really know what is required but I'm trying to figure it out. I am pretty sure that your idea of transposing must play an important part. Maybe we can figure this out together.
Lizzy I didn't feel too good about the way I worded that "Isn't it obvious?" to you and "You must be joking" If someone ever said that to me I would think "How can they possibly know if I am joking when I can never tell myself if I am joking or being serious, the two seem so close together.Now, why didn't that occur to me? More precisely, why wasn't that obvious
? More precisely, why wasn't that obvious I'll join you in wondering.It has since occurred to me to wonder whether any poem about the love of poetry could be transposed to a love poem about a man and woman... or vice versa
Yes it does beautifully but that takes you away from being one of the cool people who feel they know it is about something else.It seems it could work :shock: ... doesn't it
I noticed your offer but I don't think there is any reason why anyone would want you to delete your musings because all it reveals is that the poem made you blush and that is so sweet.Is it not often the goddess that feels awakened
in an affair... hence, the irresistable draw for both...
how even better to have her
ever present in the marriage..
Well, I offered much earlier to delete these musings.
I like this poem very much for the way it expresses whatever it expresses, whatever it means..
It is there and here and I think you are right that the answer is in that equation that uses spherical coordinates. Since we are using spherical coordinates I'll explain myself in a round about way. The part of the equation that interests me is that this equation has two spherical wave solutions for the amplitude AMP: One of them is a converging IN wave and the other is a diverging OUT wave. (kind of like Manna's sun and moon)Personally, I think the answer to all this lies over there in that kill cool thread:By extension, isn't it obvious?The Wave-equation for the electron, in spherical coordinates, is:
d2(AMP)/dr 2 + 2/r{d(AMP)/dr} - 1/c2x d2(AMP)/dt 2= 0 (1)
(BTW I don't want to give the impression that I know how to read this equation because I don't. I don't have that kind of education and so I am only picking out the part that I have had a bit of personal experience with that interests me and that is the importance of knowing that there is always both an in as well as an out wave)
As usual my round about way involves a story.
When my son was small I use to put him to sleep night after night singing him the same song. The song was "Windmills of your mind"
Occasionally when he wasn't too sleepy he would ask me about something in the song. One night he asked me what a ripple was from the line "like a ripple from a pebble someone tosses in a stream". I liked showing him things rather than telling him so we got out of bed filled the bathroom sink with water and dropped one of his marbles into the water and watched the ripples. I wasn't happy with my demonstration and then did it again this time placing something small floating on the water to show that it was the wave moving across the sink and not the water.
Then we went back to bed and he went to sleep. I still wasn't happy with my demonstration and realized that it was using the sink that interfered with being able to show the complete wave. The shallow bottom of the sink and it's sides caused too much interference. I needed to be able to show him a wave in the air. So another day I did this by tieing a piece of rope to a doorknob, stretching out the rope and with a flick of the wrist sent a wave out along the rope. What happened, and this is certainly safe to try yourself at home, is that the wave went to the doorknob turned around and came back to my hand and stopped. It was over, done with and finished. I let him try it a few times so that his body would experience that waves always have to resolve themselves by returning to their source. We just sometimes don't see it because of the interference.
So now with this picture of waves in the sink and waves in the air lets return to Manna's poem.
Anyone who posts a poem to a group like this is in some way dropping a pebble into a bathroom sink keeping in mind that the pebble is also all waves. It can be somewhat shallow by the very fact that we think that this is our Manna, someone that we feel that we know something about and so we don't get to experience knowing if her poem is one that would be able to reach us across a great distance. Would we look at it in a different way if we had been told that it was being written by a very famous poet who is admired by all? Who we have never talked to nor have any way of doing so. We can't do that but we can at least try. to the extent that we can we can set ourselves at a distance to see if the poem still reaches us. To the extent that I am able the poem never loses it's beauty but I can never be sure because like all of us I am not that impossible that she yearns for. On the other hand like the vastness of the sun being perfectly balanced with the nearness of the moon we do have Manna here with us as we have each other and the opportunity presents to be able to at least have some waves return to her that she honored us by sending our way.
For a long time I have wondered about how to do that well to all the poems and posts that I see people place here and everywhere. Lizzy I like what you said and demonstrated about transposing and I think that is it.
One of the things that interests me about the demonstration for my son to show how a wave can return is what happens when the wave gets to the door and has to turn around to return. It does something really beautiful. The wave goes through two 360 degree quantum rotations and then heads back. I was told that Scientific America did an article about that some time ago using the principal to show how magicians are able to use the principal with great effect. One of the examples is someone from a stationary position being able to place a glass of wine on their open palm, turn their hand in two complete rotations and not spill a drop of wine.
I'm not sure where I am going with this as I have never thought about this before but it seems to me that to return a wave that somehow we need to let it transpose itself in our thinking for those two complete 360 degree rotations. It has to be that way because that is the only way for a wave to return. It is going to happen if we like it or not but it is for us to decide to see how it happens and to enjoy it.
I don't really know what is required but I'm trying to figure it out. I am pretty sure that your idea of transposing must play an important part. Maybe we can figure this out together.