You didn't upset me. I like the poem very much.
Linda.
Rumours
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linda_lakeside
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- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
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linda_lakeside
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- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..
I'll try to say a little more: Literature, both old and new, is chock full of expression that does not agree with everyone. I think everyone knows of a book that is held in high esteem that has 'incorrect' references. Also, what we might consider to be 'politically incorrect' is not considered so by other cultures. Even our dear Leonard has walked this path.
Linda.
Linda.
a good poem. ignore the poisonous spittle from the few.
i'm off out for a chinkie.
i'm off out for a chinkie.
Last edited by Perth on Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hi Gideon ~
I can relate to your reasonable explanation of how your poem materialized. I would think that, perhaps, your capitalizing was a way of setting apart the term, as slangily used, vs. its other meaning. The same thing that Laurie noted, but absent the derogatory intent.
I've read this thread, but am commenting less these days, trying so hard to catch up. I wasn't committed to a position for myself on it, but was leaning toward Laurie's, as I am sensitive to slurs; but I was still in the process of considering Linda's well-stated perspectives. So, there I was, sitting on the fence. However, your explanation was so sincere and made so much sense, that now I feel compelled to comment. It reminded me of the adage, "There's your side. There's my side. And, somewhere in between, there's the truth."
Thanks for returning to the issue with reasonable comment, without defensiveness.
Welcome to the Forum, as well
.
~ Lizzy
I can relate to your reasonable explanation of how your poem materialized. I would think that, perhaps, your capitalizing was a way of setting apart the term, as slangily used, vs. its other meaning. The same thing that Laurie noted, but absent the derogatory intent.
I've read this thread, but am commenting less these days, trying so hard to catch up. I wasn't committed to a position for myself on it, but was leaning toward Laurie's, as I am sensitive to slurs; but I was still in the process of considering Linda's well-stated perspectives. So, there I was, sitting on the fence. However, your explanation was so sincere and made so much sense, that now I feel compelled to comment. It reminded me of the adage, "There's your side. There's my side. And, somewhere in between, there's the truth."
Thanks for returning to the issue with reasonable comment, without defensiveness.
Welcome to the Forum, as well
.~ Lizzy
I liked it Gideon - I am a bit pissed off with all this PC stuff. Laurie I agree with you totally about the N****** word. I hate it.
I don't think it is racist it is just slang. We get called all sorts as well. Is Paddy or Taffy racist.
I wish the ones who weren't British watched "Little Britain" they have some lovely sketches on un-pc stuff. Especially the Human Resources manageress and the Chinky Chonky Chinaman.
I don't think it is racist it is just slang. We get called all sorts as well. Is Paddy or Taffy racist.
I wish the ones who weren't British watched "Little Britain" they have some lovely sketches on un-pc stuff. Especially the Human Resources manageress and the Chinky Chonky Chinaman.
To be truthful James I think the main cause of racism in this country at least is the band of faithfully PC motivators.
Half the time the PC brigade designates something racists when it was nothing of the sort.
Case in point. A young white girl has been suspended from school for wearing her hair in cornbraids. Apparently only African descended children are allowed to wear their hair like that as it is part of their culture. Didn’t the Celts used to wear their hair like that? Positive discrimination causes problems and highlights differences which most people don’t even notice.
One of the funniest programmes on British TV over the past few years is a programme called “Goodness Gracious me”. Indian written and produced it is brilliant. We are all treading on egg shells so much it is a pain in the arse.
Half the time the PC brigade designates something racists when it was nothing of the sort.
Case in point. A young white girl has been suspended from school for wearing her hair in cornbraids. Apparently only African descended children are allowed to wear their hair like that as it is part of their culture. Didn’t the Celts used to wear their hair like that? Positive discrimination causes problems and highlights differences which most people don’t even notice.
One of the funniest programmes on British TV over the past few years is a programme called “Goodness Gracious me”. Indian written and produced it is brilliant. We are all treading on egg shells so much it is a pain in the arse.
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mickey_one
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Hi Paula and James,
I think the anti-pc campaigning is one of the giant con-tricks of my time. It gives an excuse for real racists and an alibi for lazy thinkers.
I haven't scrolled back on this thread but I know that James gave an example of the sort of Daily Mail myth that has allowed the anti-pc mob to flourish.
Why on earth do you need to write a book, James, to repeat the right wing lies. They are available every day in your paper shop. You might do far better to search out a book I read years ago which dissected and exposed the Sun. They traced back most of the crap stories to show the genesis followed by the distortion and onto the dishonesty.
Did you really believe that Europe was directing that bananas had to be straight? Oh, how embarrassing that grown-ups were fooled so easily by the propaganda.
What do I care most about, that the Daily Mail invented a story that manhole covers must be called person-hole covers, or that they headlined a story after the recent soldier convictions for abuse of Iraqi prisoners with the words "and guess what, now they want compensation"?
All decent people in my country deserve compensation from a racist press and its dupes who have turned England into a nasty foreigner-hating spiteful bitter little nation.
Paula, (of whom I am very fond), the main cause of racism in this country is thugs who attack immigrants or minorities. I think I have dealt with enough racially motivated murders to know that the victim died from assaults fuelled by hate, not from over sensitive liberals.
At my Dinner Table I would rather have precious bleedin' hearters (just like me) than fools of the anti-pc mob or scum tabloid journalists.
regards
michael
PS James, lighter ending if I may. I remember doing a trial at Norwich where a doctor's notes included NFN. Do you know what that means (I do) ?
I think the anti-pc campaigning is one of the giant con-tricks of my time. It gives an excuse for real racists and an alibi for lazy thinkers.
I haven't scrolled back on this thread but I know that James gave an example of the sort of Daily Mail myth that has allowed the anti-pc mob to flourish.
Why on earth do you need to write a book, James, to repeat the right wing lies. They are available every day in your paper shop. You might do far better to search out a book I read years ago which dissected and exposed the Sun. They traced back most of the crap stories to show the genesis followed by the distortion and onto the dishonesty.
Did you really believe that Europe was directing that bananas had to be straight? Oh, how embarrassing that grown-ups were fooled so easily by the propaganda.
What do I care most about, that the Daily Mail invented a story that manhole covers must be called person-hole covers, or that they headlined a story after the recent soldier convictions for abuse of Iraqi prisoners with the words "and guess what, now they want compensation"?
All decent people in my country deserve compensation from a racist press and its dupes who have turned England into a nasty foreigner-hating spiteful bitter little nation.
Paula, (of whom I am very fond), the main cause of racism in this country is thugs who attack immigrants or minorities. I think I have dealt with enough racially motivated murders to know that the victim died from assaults fuelled by hate, not from over sensitive liberals.
At my Dinner Table I would rather have precious bleedin' hearters (just like me) than fools of the anti-pc mob or scum tabloid journalists.
regards
michael
PS James, lighter ending if I may. I remember doing a trial at Norwich where a doctor's notes included NFN. Do you know what that means (I do) ?
Okay.
Looks like the jury is in. I guess i must have a stick up my arse and can't take a joke.
As long as the *n* word is not "used" then derogatory terms are fair play.
I get it.
I think i'll try writing something really funny (and clever!) about a crippled person of minority persuasion. Maybe i could even turn up the funny and make them gay!...Oh! the possibilities...
regards,
L
Looks like the jury is in. I guess i must have a stick up my arse and can't take a joke.
As long as the *n* word is not "used" then derogatory terms are fair play.
I get it.
I think i'll try writing something really funny (and clever!) about a crippled person of minority persuasion. Maybe i could even turn up the funny and make them gay!...Oh! the possibilities...
regards,
L
Hi Michael – It wasn’t James who mentioned the Daily Mail article it was me. I like to play fair I also like equality. The girl I mentioned was not being treated fairly she was being positively discriminated against. People should be treated equally regardless of their race.
I get very annoyed when a common sense decision is made and a race card gets played.
We currently have travellers who are riding roughshod over the laws of our land and the fear of being called racist is tying the hands of the people who should be enforcing the law, while the law abiding people who are trying to make sense of the mess are pooh-poohed.
I am sorry if my opinions make me sound like a racist bigot but believe me nothing could be further from the truth.
Hi Laurie – I personally don’t find Frog etc derogatory. I do think the *N* word is.
When did people stop laughing at their predicaments and become so anal. If you have never laughed at a joke involving a crippled, gay, Irish, English, Jewish blind, mute you are a better man than I. I have laughed at jokes on all those things so possibly the problem is mine. Do you really think that people who have disabilities are not able to laugh about their own and other people’s problems or do you deny them a sense of humour as well. Because the thing that gets me through this life the most is being able to laugh at my own misfortunes.
I get very annoyed when a common sense decision is made and a race card gets played.
We currently have travellers who are riding roughshod over the laws of our land and the fear of being called racist is tying the hands of the people who should be enforcing the law, while the law abiding people who are trying to make sense of the mess are pooh-poohed.
I am sorry if my opinions make me sound like a racist bigot but believe me nothing could be further from the truth.
Hi Laurie – I personally don’t find Frog etc derogatory. I do think the *N* word is.
When did people stop laughing at their predicaments and become so anal. If you have never laughed at a joke involving a crippled, gay, Irish, English, Jewish blind, mute you are a better man than I. I have laughed at jokes on all those things so possibly the problem is mine. Do you really think that people who have disabilities are not able to laugh about their own and other people’s problems or do you deny them a sense of humour as well. Because the thing that gets me through this life the most is being able to laugh at my own misfortunes.
Paula~
If someone else thinks terms i consider derogatory not so, it does not mean my reasoning is because i ride a PC wagon.
Jokes are jokes. We all laugh at ourselves and others flaws, pains, etc.
My position from the beginning had nothing to do with being PC. Others simplified my opinions down to this handy little term.
Your level of acceptance is different from other peoples level. Some DO consider FROG unacceptable. Labelling "them" as PC and dismissing their opinions is any easy twist in the wind.
My point was that some are Really sensitive to these things...and not just because it is politically correct to Feel that way.
I don't need lectures any more than you do.
regards,
L
If someone else thinks terms i consider derogatory not so, it does not mean my reasoning is because i ride a PC wagon.
Jokes are jokes. We all laugh at ourselves and others flaws, pains, etc.
My position from the beginning had nothing to do with being PC. Others simplified my opinions down to this handy little term.
Your level of acceptance is different from other peoples level. Some DO consider FROG unacceptable. Labelling "them" as PC and dismissing their opinions is any easy twist in the wind.
My point was that some are Really sensitive to these things...and not just because it is politically correct to Feel that way.
I don't need lectures any more than you do.
regards,
L
Hi Laurie - I wasn't labelling you PC or at least I wasn't meaning to.
My acceptance of words like Frog and Ching depends on the attitude and demeanour of the person using it.
I treat people as people and I don't take into account their race. If I don't like them it is never to do with race it is to do with personality.
Shall we agree to disagree on this one?
My acceptance of words like Frog and Ching depends on the attitude and demeanour of the person using it.
I treat people as people and I don't take into account their race. If I don't like them it is never to do with race it is to do with personality.
Shall we agree to disagree on this one?
Rumours
I am amazed that a little poem has resulted in such a debate. I accept that I should not have capitalised the 'derogatory' words but this was done without thinking.
I thought that there may have been different attitudes from opposite sides of the Atlantic until I received Mickey's message.
A recent article in The Times concluded that the French did not mind being called 'Frogs' as they almost regarded it as a term of affection, just as we do not object to being called 'Limeys' or 'Poms'.
So far as Nips and Chinks are concerned I do not know what they think but, given their human rights records, I am not really bothered.
What does concern me is people forming viewpoints from little or no evidence. None of you know my ethnic background but, I assume, everyone thinks I am a WASP. Yeah, OK. My great-great-grandfather on my mother's side was a full-blooded Romany who ran off with a vicar's daughter. A few generations back on my father's side I was French.
When I lived in Yorkshire I spent a couple of years (unpaid) teaching Pakistanis English. We did these things.
I'm not bragging; all I am saying is that there are far more important things in life to worry about than whether 'Frog' is insulting.
Yes, Mickey, I know what NFN stands for. Do you know what NWA stands for?
James
I thought that there may have been different attitudes from opposite sides of the Atlantic until I received Mickey's message.
A recent article in The Times concluded that the French did not mind being called 'Frogs' as they almost regarded it as a term of affection, just as we do not object to being called 'Limeys' or 'Poms'.
So far as Nips and Chinks are concerned I do not know what they think but, given their human rights records, I am not really bothered.
What does concern me is people forming viewpoints from little or no evidence. None of you know my ethnic background but, I assume, everyone thinks I am a WASP. Yeah, OK. My great-great-grandfather on my mother's side was a full-blooded Romany who ran off with a vicar's daughter. A few generations back on my father's side I was French.
When I lived in Yorkshire I spent a couple of years (unpaid) teaching Pakistanis English. We did these things.
I'm not bragging; all I am saying is that there are far more important things in life to worry about than whether 'Frog' is insulting.
Yes, Mickey, I know what NFN stands for. Do you know what NWA stands for?
James