We have now got permission to post the lyrics of all the songs!
Go to http://www.dearheather.com
--- to understand better some of the songs you will need to
HEAR them, not just to read the lyrics!
Dear Heather Lyrics
I sent this in a note to Jarkko and Marie last night, and Jarkko suggested that I post it here.
I've just spent some time looking at the lyrics from "Dear Heather."
Please tell Leonard that the richness almost overwhelms me. I wasn't
able to hear all that well at Davis Hall, so I am anxiously awaiting
another opportunity to visit these wonderful creations.
My friend,Vern, said it best that this was both a new direction and a return to the beginning of the creative force with the influence of A. M. Klein, F. R. Scott, and Irving Layton. The folk music, the Jew's harp, simple melody, complex arrangements, spelling bees,-all these forces bringing a beautiful aesthetic to our lives.
I can't pretend to discern the psychology of the moment, but I've
recently been reading Leon Edel's "Stuff of Sleep and Dreams." Edel
did his master's work at McGill and knew Scott and Klein. Perhaps he
knew Leonard then, as he introduced him at the "Y" in New York in 1966.
Edel writes of a Swiss psychiatrist named Roger Vittoz at Lausanne
who treated T. S. Eliot. Edel says: "(Speaking of Lady Ottoline), He
gave her puzzles to do, such as eliminating letters in certain words or
removing numbers from a set of numbers-forcing her to look attentively
at the shape and density of letters and figures....These we may judge
had the same kind of mystifications which the Koan of Zen Masters pose
for their pupils." He writes again at another point, "T. S. Eliot had
found the energy and will to complete the large work he had set
himself; but in spirit he still lingered in the inferno of his life, or
at best had just begun the slow climb through purgatory." It seems
that Leonard has worked his way through the "rivers dark" now, and
perhaps using some of these same mystifications posed now for us, helps
to bring us toward "Commonwealth" and the earthly state that can, at
least, make us more civil.
His hints toward the spiritual are too personal to make pronouncements
on. I leave again tomorrow for one of my wilderness experiences, my
legs will be very white by my return. Thanks for all your efforts.
All the best,
Joe
I've just spent some time looking at the lyrics from "Dear Heather."
Please tell Leonard that the richness almost overwhelms me. I wasn't
able to hear all that well at Davis Hall, so I am anxiously awaiting
another opportunity to visit these wonderful creations.
My friend,Vern, said it best that this was both a new direction and a return to the beginning of the creative force with the influence of A. M. Klein, F. R. Scott, and Irving Layton. The folk music, the Jew's harp, simple melody, complex arrangements, spelling bees,-all these forces bringing a beautiful aesthetic to our lives.
I can't pretend to discern the psychology of the moment, but I've
recently been reading Leon Edel's "Stuff of Sleep and Dreams." Edel
did his master's work at McGill and knew Scott and Klein. Perhaps he
knew Leonard then, as he introduced him at the "Y" in New York in 1966.
Edel writes of a Swiss psychiatrist named Roger Vittoz at Lausanne
who treated T. S. Eliot. Edel says: "(Speaking of Lady Ottoline), He
gave her puzzles to do, such as eliminating letters in certain words or
removing numbers from a set of numbers-forcing her to look attentively
at the shape and density of letters and figures....These we may judge
had the same kind of mystifications which the Koan of Zen Masters pose
for their pupils." He writes again at another point, "T. S. Eliot had
found the energy and will to complete the large work he had set
himself; but in spirit he still lingered in the inferno of his life, or
at best had just begun the slow climb through purgatory." It seems
that Leonard has worked his way through the "rivers dark" now, and
perhaps using some of these same mystifications posed now for us, helps
to bring us toward "Commonwealth" and the earthly state that can, at
least, make us more civil.
His hints toward the spiritual are too personal to make pronouncements
on. I leave again tomorrow for one of my wilderness experiences, my
legs will be very white by my return. Thanks for all your efforts.
All the best,
Joe
Thanks for the Lyrics posting.
Some of it intrigues me, some of it makes me laugh, and some of it just makes my head explode. I will of course reserve judgement until it comes out and I can hear the music. I am especially looking forward to Anjani Thomas's contributions. Her voice is splendiferous!
But, three minutes and 41 seconds for Deer Heather????..we're talking four lines here. I understand he's spelling out some of the words, but the music better take up the slack on this one. I still can't believe he's naming the album after this one.
Some of it intrigues me, some of it makes me laugh, and some of it just makes my head explode. I will of course reserve judgement until it comes out and I can hear the music. I am especially looking forward to Anjani Thomas's contributions. Her voice is splendiferous!
But, three minutes and 41 seconds for Deer Heather????..we're talking four lines here. I understand he's spelling out some of the words, but the music better take up the slack on this one. I still can't believe he's naming the album after this one.
I read the lyrics, and printed them off, intending to study them properly, but then decided to send them to a friend instead. What I remember from that brief read-through is the one about that day in September. It's so understated. No attempt to express the horror, the outrage. Just a simple invitation to the reader/listener to remember and examine their own reactions. Not a comfortable invitation. It took me straight back to the day, sitting stunned and unbelieving in front of the tv for hours watching the same bits of film over and over again. If just reading the lyrics can do that, I'm not sure quite how much I'm looking forward to hearing the song!
Linda
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
Dear Linmag ~
You're so right. "On That Day" is a very subtle, very quiet piece. It's reflective and introspective, drawing no conclusions, making no judgements. Its end questions to us, the listeners [maybe to himself, as well] pull you into it even deeper. I'll be interested to hear how Leonard's voice deepens the impact, and brings nuances of meaning ~ or clarity ~ to the lyric, as it always does.
Your words here describe that day for me, very well.... "sitting stunned and unbelieving in front of the tv for hours watching the same bits of film over and over again." Even though I was at work, little work was done, and I moved from one TV to another, stunned and unbelieving. The repetition of the same bits of film seemed somehow necessary, just to grasp the reality.
What exactly, if anything exactly, do you feel he means by, "Or did you report"?
~ As in report for duty, as a soldier, taking up philosophical/virtual arms against 'the enemy'? Did you become 'ineffectual' ["go crazy"], or did you take action, as in, literally, enlisting/reporting; or, figuratively, as in fervor of commitment/mobilization? Or, considering the literal/figurative mobilizations ~ of enlisting to fight [literal], or the fervor of commitment-to-mobilize in the sense of the "us/them" mentality [figurative ~ or does that belong in the "go crazy" column?].
~ As in report for work, carrying on with your life, despite the gaping wound?
~ As in report [to yourself], to take personal inventory [morally, ethically, socially, however] of yourself, your beliefs, your presumptions, your prejudices?
~ As in report to 'the world' [your world], keeping your mind together, to come up with and give a hopefully, cogent statement, as a reporter might, of what it all meant ~ or, at least, what 'exactly' had just happened?
~ As in report to help out at the scene of the horrifying tragedy, or even just to go and be there, as some did, as a means of offering support [even if by staying home, and giving support with your heart [and the flying of the flag, as we all saw the inundation of]; or as a way of trying to make sense of it all, where seeing is believing?
~ As in 'report,' as in a 'conscious' act of 'objectivity,' so here, symbolically, signifying 'stay sane,' i.e. [maybe] keep your head about you, not jump to conclusions, try to stay and speak logically and try to make sense of it, in an ordered fashion?
~ A 'stretch' of "Or did you report" could be as in report on the 'suspicious' ones, as the time immediately following became very suspicion-oriented, where people were, perhaps, inclined to 'report' on other people. I guess the two questions could be two sides of the same coin ~ one side being "go crazy" [how others might consider you in your suspicious reactions] and the other side being "report" [how you might consider yourself in your suspicious reactions, as in being very objective, duty-bound, and reasonable]. This 'stretch' interpretation may be carrying the lyric, too far, of course.
I know there are still more possibilities for what he meant by, "Or did you report."
Still, he seems to 'legitimize' either reaction to what happened, going crazy or reporting, with the simplicity of his asking. However, "I won't take you to court" suggests that he's asking a question that he acknowledges up-front that people might be reluctant to answer, for whatever reason, be it feeling incriminated; or very embarrassed or ashamed. It's still not so simple a question, however. It's asking us to look inside and evaluate/assess ourselves. That's rarely-to-never a simple thing to do, particularly with a 'personal' reaction to an historical event like September 11.
I'm trying to imagine how Anjani's voice in the background will play off Leonard's. The Jew's harp also seems like an ideal instrument for this song. With the piano and bass as the only other, two instruments, it sounds as though this will be a simple, powerful song. It sounds as though their voices and instrumentation are going to leave plenty of space for the lyrics to have their effect, and the listener time for answers to float through their head, if not settle somewhere.
Leonard writes this song as an American, using "we, us, and our." The "they," of course, remains unspecified.
I am wondering if his "Old Ideas LLC" is meant to suggest "Ideas of an Old man, Leonard Cohen" ~ but what might the first L signify? An inclusion of Lorca? I, at first, thought "Old Ideas" meant ones he's been mulling over for a long time, and that have finally made it to production.
Just considering the possibilities for one/two lyrics here became unexpectedly emotional for me, with some tears welling up. I'm very anxious to really listen to and absorb this album. I wish I had a literary background.
~ Elizabeth
I'm very interested to know what anyone else may think of these two lines. Along with the repetition of the fact of the wounding of New York, they are the final 'thoughts' we are left with, as the song concludes. That, in itself, ascribes them a high degree of importance.
You're so right. "On That Day" is a very subtle, very quiet piece. It's reflective and introspective, drawing no conclusions, making no judgements. Its end questions to us, the listeners [maybe to himself, as well] pull you into it even deeper. I'll be interested to hear how Leonard's voice deepens the impact, and brings nuances of meaning ~ or clarity ~ to the lyric, as it always does.
Your words here describe that day for me, very well.... "sitting stunned and unbelieving in front of the tv for hours watching the same bits of film over and over again." Even though I was at work, little work was done, and I moved from one TV to another, stunned and unbelieving. The repetition of the same bits of film seemed somehow necessary, just to grasp the reality.
What exactly, if anything exactly, do you feel he means by, "Or did you report"?
~ As in report for duty, as a soldier, taking up philosophical/virtual arms against 'the enemy'? Did you become 'ineffectual' ["go crazy"], or did you take action, as in, literally, enlisting/reporting; or, figuratively, as in fervor of commitment/mobilization? Or, considering the literal/figurative mobilizations ~ of enlisting to fight [literal], or the fervor of commitment-to-mobilize in the sense of the "us/them" mentality [figurative ~ or does that belong in the "go crazy" column?].
~ As in report for work, carrying on with your life, despite the gaping wound?
~ As in report [to yourself], to take personal inventory [morally, ethically, socially, however] of yourself, your beliefs, your presumptions, your prejudices?
~ As in report to 'the world' [your world], keeping your mind together, to come up with and give a hopefully, cogent statement, as a reporter might, of what it all meant ~ or, at least, what 'exactly' had just happened?
~ As in report to help out at the scene of the horrifying tragedy, or even just to go and be there, as some did, as a means of offering support [even if by staying home, and giving support with your heart [and the flying of the flag, as we all saw the inundation of]; or as a way of trying to make sense of it all, where seeing is believing?
~ As in 'report,' as in a 'conscious' act of 'objectivity,' so here, symbolically, signifying 'stay sane,' i.e. [maybe] keep your head about you, not jump to conclusions, try to stay and speak logically and try to make sense of it, in an ordered fashion?
~ A 'stretch' of "Or did you report" could be as in report on the 'suspicious' ones, as the time immediately following became very suspicion-oriented, where people were, perhaps, inclined to 'report' on other people. I guess the two questions could be two sides of the same coin ~ one side being "go crazy" [how others might consider you in your suspicious reactions] and the other side being "report" [how you might consider yourself in your suspicious reactions, as in being very objective, duty-bound, and reasonable]. This 'stretch' interpretation may be carrying the lyric, too far, of course.
I know there are still more possibilities for what he meant by, "Or did you report."
Still, he seems to 'legitimize' either reaction to what happened, going crazy or reporting, with the simplicity of his asking. However, "I won't take you to court" suggests that he's asking a question that he acknowledges up-front that people might be reluctant to answer, for whatever reason, be it feeling incriminated; or very embarrassed or ashamed. It's still not so simple a question, however. It's asking us to look inside and evaluate/assess ourselves. That's rarely-to-never a simple thing to do, particularly with a 'personal' reaction to an historical event like September 11.
I'm trying to imagine how Anjani's voice in the background will play off Leonard's. The Jew's harp also seems like an ideal instrument for this song. With the piano and bass as the only other, two instruments, it sounds as though this will be a simple, powerful song. It sounds as though their voices and instrumentation are going to leave plenty of space for the lyrics to have their effect, and the listener time for answers to float through their head, if not settle somewhere.
Leonard writes this song as an American, using "we, us, and our." The "they," of course, remains unspecified.
I am wondering if his "Old Ideas LLC" is meant to suggest "Ideas of an Old man, Leonard Cohen" ~ but what might the first L signify? An inclusion of Lorca? I, at first, thought "Old Ideas" meant ones he's been mulling over for a long time, and that have finally made it to production.
Just considering the possibilities for one/two lyrics here became unexpectedly emotional for me, with some tears welling up. I'm very anxious to really listen to and absorb this album. I wish I had a literary background.
~ Elizabeth
I'm very interested to know what anyone else may think of these two lines. Along with the repetition of the fact of the wounding of New York, they are the final 'thoughts' we are left with, as the song concludes. That, in itself, ascribes them a high degree of importance.
-
peter danielsen
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm
Dear Linmaq and Elizabeth
Maybe the line "did you report" could in some way be connected with "holding the fort". I would think that this suggest that Leonard in fact chooses side in some respect.
Some people say
It’s what we deserve
For sins against g-d
For crimes in the world
I wouldn’t know
a. "Some people" could be understood as the Al qaida net, allthough it has been stated also by some leftwing intellectuals that the west is responsible ( and especially the US) for "crimes in the world", and "sins against g-d"
In the song Leonard seems to sound innocent when he sings " I wouldn't know", I believe that he does this because his songs are full of realisation of his own sin, he knows (what others should know) that he has sinned against g-d and commited crimes in the world, we all have. Never the less he is holding the fort, there is something to defend, and I dont think he means a culture or perspective who has no symbol for sin, but rather the culture he talks from, namely the point of view of the exiled stranger, AND the western world ("WE")
Some people say
They hate us of old
Our women unveiled
Our slaves and our gold
Who is it that criticize our women for being unveiled? I suspect that these are the same people who find our culture decadent. Leonards answer might be understood again as a defense :"holding the fort"
But answer me this
I won’t take you to court
Did you go crazy
Or did you report
On that day
On that day
They wounded New York
"I won’t take you to court:" He cannot only he who is without sin can judge
"Or did you report": did you decide to defend something, did you take a stand.
Peter
Maybe the line "did you report" could in some way be connected with "holding the fort". I would think that this suggest that Leonard in fact chooses side in some respect.
Some people say
It’s what we deserve
For sins against g-d
For crimes in the world
I wouldn’t know
a. "Some people" could be understood as the Al qaida net, allthough it has been stated also by some leftwing intellectuals that the west is responsible ( and especially the US) for "crimes in the world", and "sins against g-d"
In the song Leonard seems to sound innocent when he sings " I wouldn't know", I believe that he does this because his songs are full of realisation of his own sin, he knows (what others should know) that he has sinned against g-d and commited crimes in the world, we all have. Never the less he is holding the fort, there is something to defend, and I dont think he means a culture or perspective who has no symbol for sin, but rather the culture he talks from, namely the point of view of the exiled stranger, AND the western world ("WE")
Some people say
They hate us of old
Our women unveiled
Our slaves and our gold
Who is it that criticize our women for being unveiled? I suspect that these are the same people who find our culture decadent. Leonards answer might be understood again as a defense :"holding the fort"
But answer me this
I won’t take you to court
Did you go crazy
Or did you report
On that day
On that day
They wounded New York
"I won’t take you to court:" He cannot only he who is without sin can judge
"Or did you report": did you decide to defend something, did you take a stand.
Peter
...I ..... .... ....... made . ..... ...... by ....... music .. ..... .. ......
Thanks for your response, Peter. I was hoping some others might give their views of the line. I really appreciate it.
Yes, "holding the fort" is kind of a euphemism[?] here for just staying home, not necessarily suggesting protection, though it can include it for sure. It reminded me of the line from the song, "I'm just staying home, getting lost in this hopeless little screen," though in this context, it certainly takes on a tone of protection; and even reserving judgement [especially with the "Some people say"s and "I wouldn't know" leading up to it].
You have the benefit of hearing his voice inflections with it. I'll be interested in that tone of innocence. I like your take on, "I won’t take you to court" ~ "He cannot only he who is without sin can judge." It does seem the "I wouldn't know" in the first verse could have a tone of "Judge not, lest ye be judged." It sounds like he could be admitting to still feeling a bit baffled by it; and not pretending to understand it at all [another line-reference from elsewhere]. As strong as my views have been on it, I know I still remain a bit confused by it.
I think the "Some people say" includes not only the countries directly and peripherally involved, but worldwide, as well.
Thanks again
. I didn't 'go for' the whole song [just focused on those two lines], but I'm glad you did 
.
~ Elizabeth
Yes, "holding the fort" is kind of a euphemism[?] here for just staying home, not necessarily suggesting protection, though it can include it for sure. It reminded me of the line from the song, "I'm just staying home, getting lost in this hopeless little screen," though in this context, it certainly takes on a tone of protection; and even reserving judgement [especially with the "Some people say"s and "I wouldn't know" leading up to it].
You have the benefit of hearing his voice inflections with it. I'll be interested in that tone of innocence. I like your take on, "I won’t take you to court" ~ "He cannot only he who is without sin can judge." It does seem the "I wouldn't know" in the first verse could have a tone of "Judge not, lest ye be judged." It sounds like he could be admitting to still feeling a bit baffled by it; and not pretending to understand it at all [another line-reference from elsewhere]. As strong as my views have been on it, I know I still remain a bit confused by it.
I think the "Some people say" includes not only the countries directly and peripherally involved, but worldwide, as well.
Thanks again
. I didn't 'go for' the whole song [just focused on those two lines], but I'm glad you did . ~ Elizabeth
Hi Peter and Linmag ~
Well, last night I literally fell off to sleep with the lines "Did you go crazy / Or did you report" going over and over in my mind. Today's the same. Tonight's the same.
An idea came to me that they may relate to the earlier line that you focused on about holding down the fort. There's a certain 'identification with the space' in that line, a certain concern for the 'fort.' There's the suggestion in it that someone needs to remain, to stay put, with the inference that you somehow have a kind of level-headed stability/personal power that feels up to the task. Somehow implicit in that is that it [the fort] needs to be 'held down,' as well. To be looked after by someone willing to forego whatever else is 'out there' that everyone else is doing. It may be as if to say that, " 'Some people say . . .,' but for me, I'm not going anywhere/[saying anything]. I'm staying right here [literally and figuratively]" ~ like it's an expression of loyalty, to one's country(?). Is there maybe even an element of 'sacrifice' in it? Or, just a sense of peace, with the willingness to stay where you're at, whilst everyone else goes off, doing/[saying] other things.
That would fit with the later, "Did you go crazy [i.e. abandon the ship/the fort] / Or did you report [for duty; to take on the task of being/staying true/to help 'hold down the fort,' too] ~ another expression of loyalty, to one's country(?). Loyalty to one's country is oft considered to be one's 'duty,' as well.
The assurance, when asking which you did, that "I won't take you to court" would then be a way of saying, "Whichever it is, it's okay to be honest. It could easily be one or the other, but whichever you did, I won't condemn you. Either reaction is feasible."
It almost seems like he's saying, "This is what happened. Many people are condemning us. I can't honestly say I understand it all, but I'm not going to jump to conclusions, either, and tear out of here like a madman, as a result."
G~d knows I'm trying to find, to figure out, exactly what he's saying in these lines. That's it for now. I keep turning the lens so it seems to come into focus, but then I go past that point, and it goes out of focus, again. Then, I try coming back to where it looks clear.
~ Elizabeth
Well, last night I literally fell off to sleep with the lines "Did you go crazy / Or did you report" going over and over in my mind. Today's the same. Tonight's the same.
An idea came to me that they may relate to the earlier line that you focused on about holding down the fort. There's a certain 'identification with the space' in that line, a certain concern for the 'fort.' There's the suggestion in it that someone needs to remain, to stay put, with the inference that you somehow have a kind of level-headed stability/personal power that feels up to the task. Somehow implicit in that is that it [the fort] needs to be 'held down,' as well. To be looked after by someone willing to forego whatever else is 'out there' that everyone else is doing. It may be as if to say that, " 'Some people say . . .,' but for me, I'm not going anywhere/[saying anything]. I'm staying right here [literally and figuratively]" ~ like it's an expression of loyalty, to one's country(?). Is there maybe even an element of 'sacrifice' in it? Or, just a sense of peace, with the willingness to stay where you're at, whilst everyone else goes off, doing/[saying] other things.
That would fit with the later, "Did you go crazy [i.e. abandon the ship/the fort] / Or did you report [for duty; to take on the task of being/staying true/to help 'hold down the fort,' too] ~ another expression of loyalty, to one's country(?). Loyalty to one's country is oft considered to be one's 'duty,' as well.
The assurance, when asking which you did, that "I won't take you to court" would then be a way of saying, "Whichever it is, it's okay to be honest. It could easily be one or the other, but whichever you did, I won't condemn you. Either reaction is feasible."
It almost seems like he's saying, "This is what happened. Many people are condemning us. I can't honestly say I understand it all, but I'm not going to jump to conclusions, either, and tear out of here like a madman, as a result."
G~d knows I'm trying to find, to figure out, exactly what he's saying in these lines. That's it for now. I keep turning the lens so it seems to come into focus, but then I go past that point, and it goes out of focus, again. Then, I try coming back to where it looks clear.
~ Elizabeth
Hi All,
Thanks to you for some very thoughtful remarks about a great song. Peter, both you and Lizzy have very interesting takes on the lyrics.
I still think the song represents "Us" vs. "Them" and it is clear through the music and Jew's harp that the ambiguity is intentional-likewise with the pronouns.
The question of "did you report" immediately brings to mind, the following question-"To Whom?" To which side of this very divisive issue do you report for duty?
It is a brilliant, insightful song delving into an issue that reflects much of our divisions here on the forum, in my country, and in our own souls.
And one last thing-yes, LLC stands for Limited Liability Company. It is a legal entity similar to Stranger Music, Inc. but protects these songs. I can't speculate why he has changed his music company, but it is probably not for artistic reasons.
Joe
Thanks to you for some very thoughtful remarks about a great song. Peter, both you and Lizzy have very interesting takes on the lyrics.
I still think the song represents "Us" vs. "Them" and it is clear through the music and Jew's harp that the ambiguity is intentional-likewise with the pronouns.
The question of "did you report" immediately brings to mind, the following question-"To Whom?" To which side of this very divisive issue do you report for duty?
It is a brilliant, insightful song delving into an issue that reflects much of our divisions here on the forum, in my country, and in our own souls.
And one last thing-yes, LLC stands for Limited Liability Company. It is a legal entity similar to Stranger Music, Inc. but protects these songs. I can't speculate why he has changed his music company, but it is probably not for artistic reasons.
Joe