Muffins or War

[lizzytysh]

Well said, Byron ~ regarding the irony on top of irony.

You're right regarding the final toll being even greater than any particular day's quotes.

This morning on the radio, they were commenting on Bush's proclamation, with pride, some time back about being known as "The War President" ~ now he's stating that he wants to be known as "The Peace President." Anyone got a saw, hammer, and nails? This is gonna take some serious reframing.

~ Lizzy

[Byron]

I cannot claim any credit for passing on the point about KIA figures, because this item is open to anyone who has access to US TV Media. I repeat, US and not British media.
Also, irony has a cruel trait all of its own.

[Midnight]

Linda Ronstadt gave a crummy concert. She ended it by dedicating "Desperado" to Michael Moore. How crazy is that?

Michael Moore, "why don't you come to your senses...you ain't getting no younger...you better let somebody love you before it's too late."

That's just plain bizarre.

I don't object to "artists" expressing their generally shallow and ill-advised political opinions. But to pretend that they are being "brave" for doing so is crazier than dedicating "Desperado" to Michael Moore.

[lizzytysh]

I don't object to "artists" expressing their generally shallow and ill-advised political opinions.

Now, there's an interesting broad sweep of the brush.

[Midnight]

Now, there's an interesting broad sweep of the brush.

Yes, I like to sweep as broadly as possible when recounting the nuttier doings of our "fearful" artists.

[Midnight]

Byron,

I think you misunderstood my little statement about Bush bashing. I was not referring to the forum members.. Though there is a lot of that here...I couldn't care less. I was referring to the Hollywood/New York Entertainment Axis. About 98% hate Bush's guts...and are very vocal about it. This gets them the accolades of their peers and the approval of about 90% of the media. So dear old Linda will get a lot of mileage out of her "outspokeness." Sir Elton's statements about artists in America living in fear is a crock of s--t.

[Byron]

I have no interest in the political machinations of grossly overpaid 'celebrities' who live high on the hog from the fortunes paid by the public to buy CD's, Cassette Tapes, old vynyl etc.

The tangent which this thread is taking, concerning such performers is yet another blind alley and divertion, from the terribly (pun intended) disturbing facts that we are all able to read about, see, and discuss through our radios, TV sets and computers.

I see a lot of in-fighting about who is right and who is wrong and I understand how people feel the way they do.

My problem is that I find it difficult to understand how this in-fighting continues to take place when the US airforce is still carrying bodybags home from Iraq, after the 'War is ended.'

Why does this continue to happen?
Why does this continue to happen?
Why does this continue to happen?

Bye the way, if lc expressed a view about political issues he did not like would he be lambasted in the same way as others are being 'attacked' now?

I think not.

We all have our own views.

Whatever the opinions, issues, arguments and discussions that surround this war, we are still left with the facts, figures, numbers and daily count.

Why does this continue?

[Midnight]

My problem is that I find it difficult to understand how this in-fighting continues to take place when the US airforce is still carrying bodybags home from Iraq, after the 'War is ended.'

Why does this continue to happen?
Why does this continue to happen?
Why does this continue to happen?

This "infighting" continues to take place in this instance because someone insisted on making Linda Ronstadt the Voice of Sanity.

Bush is wrong. This "war" is never going to end. So, let's everyone get it through our thick heads. It will be generational. Europe's policy will be to roll over and play dead...hoping that the big bad Islamic terrorists will leave them alone. The IT's realize that with Europe it's just a waiting game. All they have to do is have more babies and its showtime. The Jews have had it. With the USA they will have to set off a nuclear device. It is inevitable. Probably LA.

Just my personal eschatology.

Bye the way, if lc expressed a view about political issues he did not like would he be lambasted in the same way as others are being 'attacked' now?

Depends on what his views are. If he ever did anything so silly as to dedicate a song to Michael Moore I would lambast away.

[Byron]

If lc expressed a view on something he was not at ease with in a political sense, and people on this forum didn't agree with his view, would they then lambast him in the same way they have had a go at other celebrities? I get the feeling that he would be treated with far more respect.

My point was that it is difficult to seperate the intelligence and political viewpoint, from the public personna.

Elton John has expressed his views and has been admonished in this thread.

If Arni Swartz said he was against the Bush administration on this particular issue, would he then be lambasted by the usual name-callers.

I repeat that we all have our own views. Even celebrities. But having a go at them will not stop the body count from rising.

I agree that this war will be generational. But please don't start having a go at Europe and predicting what europe will do. It is made up of many soveriegn states and multicutural mixes. How on earth anyone can presume to predict the course of action that a massive interconnected grouping will behave, beggars belief.

But what is worse is that once again when the numbers are published and broadcast by the US Media, a total 'denial' of their existence is evident by no discussion about the figures, but yet another person, country, grouping, celebrity, etc. is attacked for not supporting Bush in sending even more young men and women to face death.

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall, whose the fairest of them all?"
'Wait till GWB tells you!'
In other words, do as your told and don't think it through for yourself. Take the easy way out. The hardest word in the English language to use in times of trouble is "No."

Some people over here are starting to wonder if some people over there are ostriches. Burying their heads in the sand to avoid seeing the reality of the situation. While your busy defending Bush, he's busy sending more young people into harm's way. He's treating his people like ostriches and sheep, and they're following him. Some shepherd, some flock.

[Midnight]

If lc expressed a view on something he was not at ease with in a political sense, and people on this forum didn't agree with his view, would they then lambast him in the same way they have had a go at other celebrities? I get the feeling that he would be treated with far more respect.

I would treat LC as respectfully as his views deserve. No more no less. Which is what I did with LR's and Sir Elton's views.

If Arni Swartz said he was against the Bush administration on this particular issue, would he then be lambasted by the usual name-callers.

I don't care for Mr. Schwarzenager. Don't like his movies. Don't much like his politics. If he came out for appeasement...yeah I would make fun of him.

I agree that this war will be generational. But please don't start having a go at Europe and predicting what europe will do. It is made up of many soveriegn states and multicutural mixes. How on earth anyone can presume to predict the course of action that a massive interconnected grouping will behave, beggars belief.

Any "massive interconnected grouping" that hands it's liberty and national soveriegnty over to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats living the high life in Brussels is going to roll over and play dead when push comes to shove. Also, I cannot emphasize strongly enough that the birth-rate is against you. You're not reproducing...they are.

But what is worse is that once again when the numbers are published and broadcast by the US Media, a total 'denial' of their existence is evident by no discussion about the figures, but yet another person, country, grouping, celebrity, etc. is attacked for not supporting Bush in sending even more young men and women to face death.

No one is in denial here in America about the "numbers". Lizzytysh posted a silly piece on Linda Ronstadt's misadventures in Las Vegas and tried to make it a referendum on the American soul. Per usual.

In other words, do as your told and don't think it through for yourself. Take the easy way out. The hardest word in the English language to use in times of trouble is "No."

Some people over here are starting to wonder if some people over there are ostriches. Burying their heads in the sand to avoid seeing the reality of the situation. While your busy defending Bush, he's busy sending more young people into harm's way. He's treating his people like ostriches and sheep, and they're following him. Some shepherd, some flock.

What to say. It's funny but you don't mind calling us sheep and ostriches...but I can't call Europeans possums. I wonder who is really avoiding "seeing the reality of the situation."

[lizzytysh]

No one is in denial here in America about the "numbers". Lizzytysh posted a silly piece on Linda Ronstadt's misadventures in Las Vegas and tried to make it a referendum on the American soul. Per usual.

Amazing what you believe yourself to have 'gleaned' from my posting. Shall I say "per usual," or merely suggest that you learn to read? My focus was on the idiocy of the club's proprietor, in his knee-jerk reaction to the stomping out of a relative few from the audience. It went from there to Linda's right to recommend a movie and to express her personal opinion on its producer, while so doing. The additional detail of 25 minutes, etc. was not in the report I posted.

I don't believe, as you do, that her comments were related whatsoever to her 'waning' with the audience. I remember hearing the majority of the songs she's reported to have sung, and her covers were beautiful. There was nothing to indicate that she didn't sing them beautifully there, as well ~ the comments on her voice still being strong and unique, and that there was nothing wrong with her singing of the songs [words to that effect ~ I can't get to them from here]. However, the reviewer presumes that her 'fans' came to see her old songs, and that she finally sang several of them. Out of "1,300 strong," the reviewer presumes to know why they came? It sounded to me that it was the reason the reviewer had any interest ~ perhaps not even caring for the style of her newer material. Well, out of dozens leaving, and 1,200+ remaining, it seems the odds are heavily weighted that her 'fans' remained loyal, regardless of what any other person ['in authority'] did ~ so whose behaviour really ends up being 'idiotic'?

I'd like to 'apologize' by saying "Sorry that....." but I can't even bring myself to word it like that. However, such a statement would continue with "....that my anti-Iraq war, anti-Bush stance makes you so uncomfortable." However, whilst you seem to like so much making me a lightning rod here, the reality is that I'm nowhere-near alone, here or elsewhere.

~ Elizabeth

[Byron]

Some people think some people are like ostriches. Not all europeans are possums. Anyway, the numbers continue to mount and there seems to be no let up or show of remorse for those who have given their lives.
I think we should hear more from the wounded servicemen and women. They are at the sharp end. What do they think of the Bush administration?
You may have noticed that I keep coming back to the young people who are being asked to carry out the policies of their political leaders.
I hope we never forget or ignore their sacrifices, which continue to make me feel humble.

[Midnight]

Lizzytysh,

This is what you wrote in the paragraph immediately following your reposting of the Brit article on Linda Ronstadt.

My response to this was:

Unbelievable ! ! ! [Unless you lived here, of course.]
Thanks for FW'ing this shaft of light on the U.S.A.,
where democracy is bound to show up one day.

So, pardon me if I "gleaned" from this your usual habit of moaning and groaning about the USA. That was where your "focus" was. "Shaft of light" my a--.

Honestly, I can just see you apologizing to Saddam Hussein himself for Linda's booting in Vegas.

I'd like to 'apologize' by saying "Sorry that....." but I can't even bring myself to word it like that. However, such a statement would continue with "....that my anti-Iraq war, anti-Bush stance makes you so uncomfortable."

Dear lady, you don't have to attempt an apology. You don't make me uncomfortable at all. Your Ronstadt post was par for the course. Who can get worked up over that kind of nonsense.

However, whilst you seem to like so much making me a lightning rod here, the reality is that I'm nowhere-near alone, here or elsewhere.

Lightning Rod? You gotta watch that martyr complex of yours.
As for not being alone...I'm sure that the majority of LC fans think the way you do. But then a majority of them think LC is a god. So it figures.

[lizzytysh]

But then a majority of them think LC is a god. So it figures.

Aha! There it is . Messianic Complex ~ when it's really you they ought to think that of, you with your 'accurate' finger on the pulse of nations and continents ! However, no argument is stronger than its weakest link.....and that would be your repeatedly poor and inaccurate habit of painting with a broad brush, when an intricate one is called for. I speak of...

I'm sure that the majority of LC fans think the way you do. But then a majority of them think LC is a god. So it figures.

It's amazing that you would go to such a length to try to make yourself infallible [via the techniques of sweeping generalizations and 'dismissal'] in this 'discussion,' and that you would demonstrate such a high level of ignorance in doing so. I trust you're not a math teacher . Remember basic algebra?

The response you quoted was my response to the one who sent it. If you'll pay any attention to the speed with which our rights are disappearing here, you may relate to it one day. However, it remains that it wasn't related to Linda Ronstadt, but rather to the proprietor......the person ousted could have been anyone saying anything. It was that action ~ that squelching of the freedom of speech ~ of which I spoke. My comments made in this posting, to those here, clarified that and made that perfectly clear. I guess you read only so far as it takes you to have your perspective 'confirmed' and then stop taking in/processing information.

Honestly, I can just see you apologizing to Saddam Hussein himself for Linda's booting in Vegas.

So, this hyperbole meets with your definition of "Honestly," eh? Well, not that anything was necessary to put your comments into any kind of perspective, but remembering the fairytale, of the man who built the stick house, flashes ~ and the soundness factor of your foundation, in what you have to say, comes immediately into focus. Now, tell me, what does Saddam Hussein have to do with the Iraq War, anyway?

Any 'apology' wouldn't be real, anyway, hence the '...' marks. The kind of person who can get 'worked up' over that kind of 'nonsense' is the same kind of person who realizes and understands that rights aren't generally lost in a day. It's an insidious process that occurs over time. The same kind of person who realizes and understands that the Holocaust occurred because of incremental steps in people's consciousness, behaviours, and actions. The time to get 'worked up' is before massive changes, that occur in incremental measures, become entrenched.

No 'martyr complex' at all ~ "par for the course," twice said in this discussion alone.......demonstrates an attentiveness on your part as to my positions regarding these issues.

~ Lizzy

[Byron]

Go to

http://www.nytimes.com/

and click on public reviews about Moore's film from staunch Republicans and others.